|  |     There is already a note on the Roland MKS-20. I run mine thru a
    Alesis MIDIverb, which gives it the appropriate ringing overtone
    exchange. It isn't perfect, but it's close enough to fool anyone
    once it's recorded. Check out my 'Is it Real or Is It Roland Challenge'
    in the MKS- note.
    
    karl moeller
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|  |     According to Bob Moog in Byte magazine, SAS is a resynthesis technique
    mostly involving additive sine wave synthesis, ala the Crumar GDS
    (which I did some development work on at Bell Labs), Digital Keyboards
    (also Crumar) Synergy, etc. Wendy Carlos is a big proponent of additive
    synthesis. The new Kurzweil 150 is using a similar technology.
    	- Rick
    
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|  |     I read the Keyboard review of the MKS-20 last night, and it confirms
    the notion that there's a sample for each note for each velocity
    level.  This is a staggering amount of information, even if the
    samples are only a single cycle long.  I put on my thinking cap
    and figured out just how much storage was required for one cycle's
    worth of 128 (MIDI notes) * 128 (velocity values) samples.
    
    First some assumptions - assume the sampling rate is 40 KHz, and
    the samples are 12 bits.  Assume each sample uses only as much memory
    as it must.  128 notes is 7 octaves, and each successive half step
    up the scale requires 1/(12th root of 2) as much storage as the
    previous.  We could do this as an enormous power series, i.e.,
    
    	1 + 1/(2^(1/12)) + 1/((2^(1/12))^2) + 1/((2^(1/12))^3) + ...
    		+ 1/((2^(1/12))^127)
    
    As this was a "back of the envelope" calculation, my Amiga was busy
    plotting yet another detail of the Mandelbrot set, and I couldn't
    find a closed form for such a series, I resorted to some simplifying
    approximations.
    
    First, each octave takes up half as much space as the next lower
    octave.  This reduces it to a problem of evaluating that series
    only to the  1/((2^(1/12))^11) term.  The whole set then takes
    
    	1 + 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + 1/16 + 1/32 + 1/64
    
    times the storage for the first octave.  Well, this is easy - that's
    just a factor of 2 (actually, 2 - 1/64, but between friends, what's
    1/64?).  Now how do we get the storage for one octave?  Now we get
    sweeping - a reasonable first approximation is that the *average*
    sample length in the first octave is somewhere between 1 and 1/2
    times the lowest note's sample length.  Pick 3/4 as a conservative
    average value. 12 * 3/4 = 9, so say the first octave takes (less
    than) 9 times as much storage as the first note.  All 7 octaves take
    (less than) twice that, so the whole sample set FOR ONE VELOCITY
    VALUE takes 18 times as much storage as the lowest note does.
    
    So how much storage does the lowest note take?  MIDI note 0 is the
    16 cycle C (it's not exactly 16 Hz, but that's close enough).  At
    16 Hz one cycle sampled at 40KHz requires 40K/16 samples, or 2500
    samples of 12 bits each.  That's 3750 bytes.
    
    So, that comes to 18 * 3750 or 67500 bytes per velocity value. 
    If there really is a sample set per velocity value, we need 128
    * 67500, or 8640000 bytes.  Now, 8 megabytes is an awful lot
    of storage, even if it is ROM, to cram into a $1500 2 high rack
    mount box.  And even if there were that much ROM, you still need
    to do a lot of processing to make it sound good - a piano most
    assuredly does not owe its magnificent sound to a single waveform
    repeated throughout a note's life.
    
    What this all says to me is unless/until Roland spells out exactly what
    SAS is, we (and the magazine editors) are just waving our hands.
    len (who isn't that good at arithmetic, so check my work)
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|  |     Nice work Len.
    
    No way there are 128 samples per note.  No way.  The Kurzweil can't
    even do that.
    
    I don't think SAS has anything to do with "sampling".  My reason
    for saying this is their line of Juno synthesizers sport this
    same technology.  As far as I know, the Junos allow the user
    to create custom sounds (like the DX series) which couldn't occur
    if the technology were based on samples (unless it were like the
    DW series from Korg, which I doubt).
    
    What we need is to sneak a peak at a Juno manual.  Are you gonna
    be going down to EU's any time soon Len?
    
    Todd.
    
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