Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    Karl, check out note 192 and send for the catalog. They sell all
    parts needed to build your own racks, to your specs, as well as
    blank rack panels that you can use to build patch bays (much cheaper!)
    to fit your needs. They also have muilt-core cable (snakes etc.)
    that you can use to build the "one cable" approach to hooking
    everything up.                                   
    
    I think you'll find it helpful and MUCH cheaper than buying racks
    etc.
    
    dave

    Also check out an Amphenol catalog for off-the-wall connectors,
    ect. We in datacomm use alot of these products.
    
    Edd

    RE .1: Thanks, Dave, I'll check out 192.xx. I still have major blanks
    so far as designing a patch bay, I do so much repatching now.. Plus
    the mixer I use has NO effects sends, so I haveta interrupt the
    line signals and insert effects. I'll post a small reply here about
    my patchbay plans & misconceptions as soon as I put out these four
    fires.
    
    koll mahler
    

    I have been wrestling with same issues myself in my plans for an
    equipment overhaul and have decided to take the advice about building
    my own rack.  Anvil, Calzone, etc charge outrageous amounts of money
    for racks, unless you can find one used. 
    
    Two thoughts: consider a double width rack rather than 2 separate
    ones.  Cabling between them becomes a non-issue.  The only problem
    you have is transportability.  Ah, life is a trade-off.  
    
    By the way, the keyboard player for "Night Ranger" (forget his name)
    has a triple width rack for his rack mount gear, a 24 channel mixer
    which goes on top, and a custom rack which stacks 3 Emulator IIs. He
    controls it all from 2 MKB200s on stage. Ah, to have roadies and gobs
    of money!!!  The whole thing is described in a recent back issue
    of _Keyboard_.  (Geez, I hate making references to articles without
    having the magazine in front of me.  Oh well, maybe no one cares.)
    
    Second thought: Whirlwind makes several different snakes, multicore
    cables, special connectors, etc.  If you are interested in the address,
    please let me know and I can send you mail.  If I get enough interest,
    I can post the address as a reply to this note.

    
    	Derek (who always looks for the elegent, but cheap, solution)

    Although I appreciate the info on FCC Fittings, I mentioned them
    to a musicstore crony who does a lot of sound reinforcement and
    speaker construction... he said they give great catalog but that
    they never sent ANYTHING on a large C.O.D. order he placed, and
    that their phone kept getting disconnected/never answered.
    
    Dave, have you actually BOUGHT anything from them?
    
    I picked up a Peavey catalog and they have only one rack road case
    available. Still looking...
    
    Sorry, double wide racks sound like a)a gutbuster b)too big to fit
    in my wife's Datsun wagon...
    
    kerl mehler

Thanks for the input on FCC Fittings.  I was planning on using them
myself.

Sessions also sells that kind of stuff.  They supply people like Anvil.
Again, I can get the address if anyone cares...

		Derek

    re -1 : Sessions.
    
    Derek, I care. Deeply.
    
    kerl mahler sws tucson

    I have not yet ordered anything from FCC fittings.....I had planned
    to after completion of my studio construction work, probably sometime
    late this fall.
    
    Oh well post the other one please.....
    
    dave

    Derek sent me Sessions' address..
    
    J.H Sessions and Son
    273 Riverside Ave Box 609
    Bristol CT 06010
    (203) 582-3127
    
    I called these folks and it seems they make little metal pieces
    of things, corners, wheels, handles, etc. They referred me to
    
    Middle Atlantic Audio
    P.O. Box 96
    Haskell N.J. 07420
    (201) 839-1011
    
    I called THESE folks, and, while they make some rack hardware, they
    don't offer rack covers, etc. They gave me a hard time about ordering
    their free catalogue because I'm not a company, but finally relented.
    When asked about rack covers/tops etc, they tried to refer me back
    to FCC Fittings ! (BTW, I'm literally on the phone now with them,
    I phoned FCC just before starting to type this reply, and in, what,
    4 minutes of ringing NO ONE answers...) and they (Middle Atlantic)
    also said I should contact Armor Case, Excalibur, etc..
    
    So... nada. Does anyone have Armor Case, Excalibur, etc. addresses
    ?
     ......... this should NOT be this tough. And, FCC STILL hasn't
    answered their phone.
    
    karl moeller

    
    
    I placed an order for the FCC fittings catalog over 6 months ago,
    still no catalog, still no cancelled check....
    
    I gave up on them.
    
    I got my Sessions hardware for my sound system from Performance
    Systems, Hopedale Ma, (617) 478-2192 ask for Don or Damon.
    
    The prices were a LOT better than I had negotiated in NYC, saved
    about $100 on a $400 order.
    
    I found out about them when I needed two of my Altec 15" drivers
    reconed/recoiled. They did a SUPER job, and now they've been updated
    to better than original. I can't say anything bad about them.
    
    So far as racking is concerned, I went modular. With four power
    amps totalling about 225 lbs. there was no way I could rack them
    with the processing gear, besides, the fans wreak havoc with the
    low level stuff. I cased each power amp seperately, each with Sessions
    handles, and built a rack for the other stuff (crossover,eq,tape
    decks,compressor etc.) The rack has an 861? power controller, so
    there's only one power lead, and the permanent connections are
    left alone. I could have gone with a snake, but was concerned with
    the reliability issue, so I used seperate signal leads made of Belden
    8413 balanced coaxial cable.
    
    I think the double width rack is a great idea for your needs, possibly
    the best solution. You'll still have portability, and will avoid
    the snake concerns.
    
    Chris
    
    

    Boy, never thought it would be such a hassle to get parts to build
    a rack from....
    
    Anyway, thanks to Karl for posting the Sessions address.  I was
    out of the office yesterday and VAXnotes access was not possible.
    
    The other thing I mentioned was the _Keyboard_ article concerning
    Alan "Fitz" Fitzgerald from Night Ranger.  It is in the October
    1985 issue (the one with Chick Corea on the front).  Fitz's set-up
    is very elegant and those who are into drooling will have lots to
    drool over: 3 Emulator IIs, 2 TX816's, several Super Jupiter's,
    etc.  Check it out!!
    
    		Derek

    I got the FCC fittings catalog with no problem, but have never ordered
    from it.
    
    dave

    Karl,
     You can get blank rack panels from PAIA but they are not the deluxe
    units that FCC features in their catalog. I bought some they are
    plain alunimum (spell be dammed!) scratched, and more expensive
    than the annodized ones that FCC had.
    
    PAIA also sells a psuedo rack unit that looks cheesey in the catalog.
    
    dave
    

    HI! Remember this note ?
    
    Well, I haven't exactly hit the Mother Lode, but it looks promising.
    This A.M. I picked up a Newark Electronics catalog from the Tucson
    ordering office. This is no flybynite outfit, with 180 ordering
    offices around the US. 
    
    The catalogue has ~14 pages of racks, cabinets, fans, etc. While
    I don't see EXACTLY the pieces for my dream rack, I oughta come
    fairly close. Also all the pieces for patchbays, a complete Amphenol
    catalogue, and all kinds of Belden shielded multistrand cable for
    snakes. AND the connectors. Buy extra parts for your Ethernet/DECnet
    or IEEE 802.3 network, from coax to terminators.
    
    karl moeller sws tucson az

    
    	Anvil Case Corp.
    	4128 Temple City Blvd.
    	P.O. box 888
    	Rosemead CA 91770

    This is from the back pages of Musician Magazine August 1986 issue
    (p. 96) in the classifieds.
    
    	FX RACK
    
    	Economical 19"" rackmount 'Furniture' for the Professional or
    	Home studio.
    
    FX Rack features:
    
    -	Holds up to Eighteen 'spaces' of equipment
    -	Complements any room decor (basic black)
    -	surprisingly low price
    
    Ask your dealer for a demonstation
    
    Four Designs Co.
    6531 Gross Ave.
    Canoga Park, CA  91307
    
    (818)-716-8540

    HI, NOTERS ! Remember this note ?? I'm sorry this Notesfile has
    been writelocked, but I'm sure that things will pick up soon..
    
    Well, I may be slow, but I'm slow. After many moons of desultorily
    seeking rack hardware in bits'n'pieces I purchased a Peavey Road
    Rack about 3 weeks ago. It's 14 rack spaces high, has a metal 'cap'
    on top, handles on the side panels, a large base, and wheels. The
    large/deep base was important since my Roland MKS-20 Piano module
    is 17" deep not counting cable/power connections.
    
    So I found a 9-outlet surge protect AC outlet with 10' power cord
    and mounted it on the rack's metal 'cap', facing backward. If you
    had Xray vision here's how the gear looks:
    
         Alesis MIDIverb        sits on top!    
         9- outlet power strip  back of top
         Furman 20x20 patch bay 1 rack space
         TEAC stereo graphic    2  "     "
         Ibanez Multieffects    2  "     "
         EMAX Rack Sampler      3  "     "
         Marantz stereo amp     3  "     "
         Roland MKS-20 'piano'  2  "     "   _________Yamaha KM08 Mixer_____
    
    WIRING: AC and line level... I found some plastic 'circlips' with
    adhesive feet, and mounted them on the back flange of the rack rails,
    about 5" apart, on both sides. I used the right side to run all
    the AC cable up to the power strip. NOTE: to avoid ground loop hum
    I used non-grounded 'standoffs' for all grounded AC plugs except
    ONE. The AC cords were coiled and tied and run neatly up one side,
    secured by the 'circlips', which open easily.
    
    Line level cords run up/down the left side of the rack, into/out
    of the Furman patch bay. Radio Shack makes some 6'6" 4-wide line
    cords which clean up the cable runs to/from the 8x2 channel mixer.
    
    So I'm pleased, in one rack I have all my instruments, effects and
    amplification, ready for gigging or recording. Of course there is
    more involved in hooking up the 8-track and 4-track, namely one
    more 20x20 patch bay and one more 8 channel mixer, but, hey...
    
    karl moeller
        

    Yea, but how does it *look*?
    
    
    Are there enough flashing LED's?
    
    Todd.

    The competence and proficiency of any musician is easily and directly
    related to the amount of LEDs in their rack.
    
    LCDs are for weenies...
    
    Edd

    Ah yes, its all in one rack, but re: moving it, how heavy is it?
    
    	- Rick
    

    re moving the rack.. takes one person, me. although I AM a rather
    large individual..
    
    karl moeller

    I have another naive question:
    
    I bought a rack last night but it doesn't come with any of the hardware
    needed to screw the units into place.  What hardware is needed? (Please
    be specific about sizes et. al.)
    
    BTW, I think what I got was a good compromise over Anvil-type cases.
    It's basically a wooden box covered with a felt-like material. 
    It has no edging of any kind, but I could always put that stuff
    on myself.
    
    It has some feet and very nice rubber/foam padded carrying handles
    (so that the handle doesn't dig into your hand).  To close the box
    up, you get two boards with velcro attachments that you just slap
    onto the openings.
    
    The box was sturdy enough for me to jump on without any noticeable
    wobbling.  It has space for 8 units and cost only $155 (w/o bargaining)
    at Daddy's.   The cheapest 8 space rack I saw in an anvil-type design
    was $290.
    
    I don't remember the exact brand name, but it began with a P (PIA
    I think).
    
    	db

    The only hardware I can think of that you'll need are some bolts
    (4 per unit) and some U-clips (1 per bolt).
    
    The U-clip is pressed onto the rail on your box thats full of wholes.
    It clips into place and basically functions as a nut, only it stays
    in place when you take the bolt out.
    
    Any FS engineer probably has a ton of them in her/his tool kit that
    they'll be happy to show you.
    
    Edd

    Make that "... full of holes."
    
    The "W" is silent.
    
    Edd

    
    Your rack rails should be pre-tapped so you won't need the clips,
    like DEC racks. You can get the fasteners from your engineering
    stockroom. Have them give you a couple so you can get a duplicate
    at the hardware store 8^).
    
    Dave, I don't want to burst your bubble, but I just bought two Roadie
    8 space effects racks from East Coast for $139 each. Laminated,
    handles, extrusions, spring loaded bail latches. They were supposed
    to be Calzone, but they subbed these instead (no problem). And they
    even came with rack mounting hardware. They hold units up to 11
    inches deep.
    
    BTW I think your rack is by PAS?
    
    CdH
    
    
    

With regards to patchbays, can someone please help me understand the
difference between normalled and non-normalled?

I need a patchbay for the studio (sick of re-wiring everything all the time) 
and want to understand the terms involved...

dbii

re : -.1 also any recommendations for patchbays, cheap is useful if it's 
functional

thanks

dbii

    A "normalled" connection is the default; where the signal goes if no
    patch cord is inserted. It's internal to the box. Inserting a patch
    cord breaks the normalled connection and puts the signal on the wire.
    
    Edd
    
    

    The Tascam PB-32B is a stereo normaled 1 rack space patch bay. I just
    got one for $150. It features 2 rows of 16 jacks on the front panel and
    the same on the back panel. If you feed the output of a synth into an
    upper jack on the back panel and a mixer input channel to the
    corresponding lower jack on the back panel, signal will flow from the
    synth to the mixer. This is "normaling", i.e. having a default internal
    path through the patchbay. If you insert a cable into one of the
    corresponding jacks on the front panel, you break the normaled
    connection between the synth and mixer but establish a connection from
    your inserted cable to the corresponding jack on the back panel.
    Patchbays come in both mono and stereo, the stereo usually costing
    about $25 more. I think it's worth getting the stereo model because
    then you can run either both left and right signals through 1 jack or
    run balanced. If your bay is mono you waste 2 jacks on one stereo
    signal and can't run balanced unless you split the tip and ring signals
    and run them separately. The bay also has plated solder terminals
    inside that can be wired to create complex custom normaling (default
    paths), Y-branching, etc. More expensive bays might have solderless
    jumpers to do custom normaling. Hope this helps!
    
    Chris

    $150 for a 32B?  I got one about 6 mos ago for $115 from Carusos.  You
    may want to try giving East Coast Sound a call as well ... regardless
    of the price, the 32B is a solid, well-build unit.  Should never have
    trouble with breaking the thing mechanically unless you're a gorilla
    (apologies to karl 8-). 

    For what it's worth, Sam Ash had 40 pt Furman patch bays (PB-40P)
    for $100 in their last catalog.

-b

	I have a PB-32B and a PB-32(r?).

	The only feedback about a -32B is that you need to make up a lot
	of Y-split connectors to deal with stereo to mono conversions. For 
	instance, if you patch your 2-channel EQ and you want to use each
	channel independently, you gotta split the 3-conductor into 2 
	2-conductor connections somewhere. I built about 12 of these so far.

	The other one I bought from the late Dave O, it was a combination of
	non-normalled RCA patches and 8 mono 1/4" jacks, which are normalled.
	That one is the one all the tape dex are sent through, and the signals
	to and from the stereo back to the rest of the sudio rack. 

	I paid $114 for my PB-32B. 

	/pjh

    I need help !
    
    I have a Symetrix-32 patch bay and I thought I understood how it
    worked...Apparently not.  Hopefully someone can clear this up for 
    me.  Here's the situation:
    
    I have two guitar preamp outputs (one is stereo, one is mono = three
    plugs) going into the back plugs of the bay (number 1, 2, and 3).
    I also have the inputs (A and B) to the rest of my stereo rig plugged
    into 17 and 18 (the back of the unit)...  Maybe a drawing attempt is in 
    order:
    
    
    preamp1 out
                   preamp 2(left)      preamp 2(right)
      |                   |                    |
      v                   v                    v
     -----------------------------------------------
    | 1                   2                    3
    |
    |
    | 17                  18
     -----------------------------------------------
      |                   |
      v                   v
 To left input       To right input
    of rig              of rig
    
    Okay, now what I thought should happen is that I jump (on the front of 
    the bay) from "jack 1" to "jack 17" with a small patch cord and "Preamp
    1"'s output should go directly to the input to my rig...Which is
    does... However, if I unplug the patch cord it STILL works !! (this
    blew my mind).  
    
    I also thought that if I used a jumper between 2 and 17
    and 3 and 18 that that would work...      Also, when I jumped from
    1 to *19* I still got input to the rest of my rig from preamp 1.
    I'm confused.
    
    I'm babbling.
    
    Okay, Bottom line is:  Can someone explain how these bays are wired ??
    What shorts to what, and which are open ??
    
    jc

    Ah, standards....
    
    The upper jack is connected to the lower jack and only disconnected
    when you plug something into the lower....
    
    It's plugging-into the lower (your #17) jack that replaces either 
    
    a) what is plugged-in to the upper jack
    
    or 
    
    b) what is connected to the upper jack in the rear
    
    with
    
    c) whatever it is that you have plugged-in.
    
    This is called a "normally-connected" patch bay.
    
    
    

    Cross section of ONE patchbay set of four:
                  FRONT                  BACK
                        +---------------+
    output to anything <=    -----<---- =< input from instrument preamp
                        |    |          |
    insert from anything>    ----->-----=> NORMAL instrument signal out
                        +---------------+
    o if nothing is plugged in the front, instrument top input goes
    directly (is "normalled") out the bottom output.
    o if a cord is plugged in the top front, the signal goes out that PLUS
    the "normalled' output.  sort of a Y cord.  Unless there is an insert:
    o if a cord is plugged in the bottom front, "inserted", then that
    signal goes out the normalled output in the back, and the regular input
    is ignored.
    o what you are describing states that ONE instrument input is seen
    ACROSS the rack !  Perhaps a grounding or bare-wires problem.. that
    signal should be ONLY seen in its own cross-section of four.
    
    karl

I have a real good tutorial on it I picked from a Recording Magazine.  I'll try 
to send it to ya if you give me your address.