Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    Are there ANY software programs which do a good job of printing
    scores? This is the second one I've heard of which does off-the-
    wall crap.
    
    The other one (MusicWorks is the name I think, runs on a Mac) also
    does weird stuff; rests only show up in the G clef, regardless of
    which staff they belong in; notes on top of one another; ect.
    
    Totally useless.
    
    Edd

    
    	Professional Composer by Mark of the Unicorn (in Boston) does
    a good job.  Lists for $400+ but can be had by mail order for around
    $200+.
    
    	It *does* have irritating limitations, but is far better than
    any of its competitors.
    
    	The only runner-up is a product (whose name I've forgotten)
    out of Canada, which was written up in a past MIT Computer Music
    Journal.  No play-back ability.  And, I think, no error checking.
    Just a flexible graphics package with lotsa music symbols. This
    one is cheap ($49 rings a bell).  Something like MusEd.
    
    						- Karl
    
    p.s. Professional Composer files printed on a laser printer are
    quite impressive.

    
    	Re;-1
    
    	I should have made it clear that Professional Composer and the
    other product mentioned are for the Mac, not the Amiga.
    
    	I was responding to the previous general question about whether
    there was *anything* that did a good job at notation.
    
    								- Karl

    
    I've been (lightly) interested in writing a score editor for some
    time.  What I need ( other than more motivation ) is a complete
    reference on notation including historical variations ( vaporware
    can do EVERYTHING ).  Also some ideas on interfaces.  Anyone want
    to make recommendations?
    
    					Monty

    
    	The book Tom mentioned is very good.  Also, check out Gardner
    Read's 'Notation' (or 'Music Notation').
    
    	One of the big problems with writing notation programs is that
    music notation is far from being concise, logical, predictable,
    etc.  If you don't take the inconsistancies of the language into
    account in your original design, you'll regret it later.
    
	Also, I'd suggest going to a library and taking out an armload
    of scores.  Baroque, classical, romantic, modern, avant-garde, folk,
    jazz, rock, etc. Solos, chamber ensemble, keyboard, choir, orchestral,
    percussion, etc.  And, really look at them before deciding a priori
    what people do and don't do.
    
    								- Karl

    The reference Tom supplied in .1 is probably a good place to start.
    I'm going to try to find a copy for myself (Tom, can you be of any
    help in this regard?).  And Tom's right about "real" musical scores
    and the relationship between time values and horizontal position;
    in my ire at Activision I oversimplified.  If you saw what the Music
    Studio does you'd understand.  Basically every note, regardless
    of time value, is the same distance apart.  It  does have lots of
    "cute" features, and the user interface is halfway intelligible
    without any documentation, but my original assesment still stands.
    
    It's currently the ONLY piece of music software available on the
    Amiga;  I'm still waiting for the Mimetics Soundscape stuff promised
    me two months ago.  When I get it, you'll hear about it.
    
    My offer still stands to organize my notes about requirements for
    a composition system.  I've only gotten one piece of mail encouraging
    me to do this; absent that, it's a very "backburner" project for
    me until I give up on Mimetics.
    
    len.
    

    re .6 - Monty, one thing I learned from screwing around with the
    MUSIC STUDIO was that any composition system has got to be as easy
    to use as a pencil and music paper.  What that meant to me was that
    placing a note ought to be doable something like the following:
    
    Move the cursor (with the mouse) to the place where you want the
    note's head to be.  Click the mouse to drop an open head there; click
    it again (within some time window) to fill the head.  Move the mouse
    up or down to orient the stem.  Click the mouse as many times as
    you want flags on the stem.  Problems - time windows/timeouts, whole
    notes.  Beaming - what you'd like to do is sweep the mouse/cursor
    over a sequence of notes that you want to beam together, and flag
    them all at the same time.  I haven't figured out how to do this
    yet.  Maybe a pen/tablet interface would be more appropriate, but
    they're hard to find on for the current crop of PCs.
    
    Noters who write music on paper with pencil - do you do as I do
    and write lots of notes head only and then go back and add the stems
    and flags; rather than writing complete notes one at a time?  I
    think understanding usage patterns like this is the key to a usable
    and efficient user interface.
    
    Anybody else have any thoughts?
    
    This is a small fraction of the sort of stuff I have in my requirements
    notebook.
    
    len.
    
    

    .8 is re .5, not .6
    
    len.
    

    
    re: .8	Your notebook sounds like it might be of interest. 
    		Perhaps a photocopy could be arranged?  As you say,
    	a backburner project until all else fails and in my case, because
    	my design would likely be more ambitious than any one of the
    	current micro systems:  interchange between different hardware
    	systems, personalization of editing characteristics, etc.
    
    re: .1	The author of the text is Ross?

    	It may never be done but I am interested in ideas....
    
    					Monty
    

                 <<< SPHINX::SPHINX$DISK:[NOTES]AMIGA.NOTE;1 >>>
                                -< AMIGA NOTES >-
================================================================================
Note 48.1                   Activision MUSIC STUDIO                       1 of 2
ALIBUT::SANTIAGO "Ed Santiago"                       21 lines  16-JUN-1986 10:00
                    -< Another Thumbs Down on Music Studio >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Have to agree with you. I bought Music Studio two weeks ago and
    it really is pretty useless. To add to your list of complaints,
    the predefined instruments are poor, having to load sound libraries
    instead of individual instruments is very inflexible, and its
    restriction that ties can only be placed between notes of the same
    pitch is ridiculous! Also, you can't change key in the middle of
    a piece, the time signature is worthless since bars are not fixed
    length and therefore never know where the beat will fall, and it
    has no dynamics (you select a volume for the song. It plays the
    entire song at that volume). I regret having spent all that money.
    
    On the other hand, MusiCraft looks more reasonable, albeit more
    expensive. General Computer (Rte 9, Framingham) has a demo copy
    and it looks like they got their act together a bit better than
    Activision. Unfortunately MusiCraft is in the >$100 range, out
    of reach for a lowlife student such as me. If somebody buys this,
    though, please post your reaction to it, I'd like to know.
    
    Incidentally, I am not a musician, and have no musical talent
    whatsoever.
    
================================================================================
Note 48.2                   Activision MUSIC STUDIO                       2 of 2
ERLANG::FEHSKENS                                     11 lines  16-JUN-1986 10:10
                              -< Well, yeah, but >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    To be fair, the problem with ties across notes of different pitch
    (I think this is properly called a slur, no pejorative intended)
    to denote legato playing is achieved with the Music Studio by using
    the bar lines to delimit a phrase that should be played legato.
    So you can get the effect, you just have to do it using unconventional
    notation.
    
    Not that this makes the thing any more attractive.
    
    len.
    

    re; 12 & 11
    
    	Yup, it's a slur or a phrase mark.
    
    	By the way, can it change tempi during the piece?  So far, I
    haven't found any software (for any hardware) that can do this.
    
    							- Karl

    No it can't; and the temp range it does provide is inadequate. 
    (Slowest tempo is about 56 bpm;  I don't recall the fastest.
    
    The new Roland MC500 will record (and execute) tempo changes.
    I thought I had read someplace about some sequencer software that
    will handle tempo changes, but I don't recall where.  I'll check
    into this.  Note that the MSQ-100 and MSQ-700 won't even memorize
    1 tempo for the entire piece.
    
    Now what I'd really like to be able to do is store all of this stuff,
    include patch parameter values, as part of a single (logical) file.
    No more of this trying to find everything scattered across a half
    dozen data tapes to get back to where you were last session.
    
    len.
    

    I extracted the following data from Keyboard's foldout summary of
    sequencers;  these sequencers purport to support what Keyboard
    calls "tempo rubato", which they define as "one that varies gradually".
    This is not exactly correct; tempo rubato actually means an ebb
    and flow of tempo within a phrase (the phrase is Italian for "robbed
    time" and implies that a little rushing at the beginning is made
    up for by a little dawdling at the end, or vice versa).  Also rubato
    is usually applied to a phrase within a voice, not to all voices
    simultaneously or exactly the same way.  Hence I take a check in
    the rubato column to mean only "programmably variable tempo" and
    NOT actual rubato.  Thus warned, here we go:
    
    For Apple IIe - CTM Mixmaster
    
    For APPLE IIe and Commodore 64 - Dr. T's Keyboard Control Sequencer
    				     Passport Master Tracks
    				     Syntech Studio 1,2
    
    For Commodore 64 - Beam Team MIDI Composer MM1, MM2
    		       Joreth Music Composer System
    		       Syntech Music Studio
    
    For IBM PC - Octave Plateau Sequencer Plus
    		 Syntech IBM 48 Track Sequencer
    		 System Design Associates ProMIDI
    
    For Apple Mac - Creative Solutions Studio Mac
    		    CTM Configure Rhythm Software
    		    Musicworks Megatrack
    		    OpCode MIDIMac Sequencer
    		    Southworth Total Music
    
    For Atari 130XE - Hybrid Arts MIDI Track III
    
    Dedicated hardware sequencers - Casio SZ-1
    				    Roland MC500
    				    Yamaha QX1, QX7
    

    Len, do you have an address for info on the beam team midi composer?
    I would be ineterested in looking over the info so I can choose
    one for my C64....if I ever find an interface I like.....and can
    afford....
    
    dave

    It's in the Keyboard MIDI issue (the one with all the MIDI connectors
    on the cover) or the "Synth '86" special (a combination of the MIDI
    issue and the "Programming" issue - so it's got both the connectors
    and the "synth pallette" on the cover).  I'll get the address for
    Beam Team and post it tomorrow.
    
    len.
    

    Beam Team
    877 53rd St.
    Oakland CA 94608
    
    (415) 652-3208
    

    Thanks Len, I'll be contacting them for the info.
    
    dave

re:.18 This phone number is NOT good. Keyboard misprinted apparrently.
    I talked the the guy at that number and he is a synthesizer player
    but he is NOT bean team.......
    
    dave

    Oops - did you try California information?  Did I type it in correctly?
    Here it is again, just in case - (415) 652-3208.
    
    len (who's only as good as his sources)
    

    Len I didn't try information I sent a letter instead. The guy at
    the number (you did type in in right) said that he was receiving
    15 calls an hour for the last week or so, and he'd only just gotten
    the phone a few weeks before. He was contacting Keyboard to get
    a retraction/correction printed so his phone load will be reduced.
    Seemed like a cheerful sort though......
    
    dave