Conference kaosws::canada

    he doesn't stand a chance.

    
    Agreed, if you inhale, don't hold your breath.
    
    /Pat

    
    Why do the two of you think he does`nt stand a chance? It can`t
    be that much of a stretch to see it legal. Don`t forget this is
    Canada, not, the United States. There is no all out war here.
    Maybe we should start arresting anybody who drinks alcohol. No
    legal age to drink, it would be 100% illegal. There are far
    to many alcoholic politicians to let that happen.
     I think it will happen. The government stands to make to much
    money not to. 
    

    OK, any of you folks feel like enlightening the unknowning?

    Chris sells pot from his store in London, gets charge for possession
    and trafficking and is fighting it out in court. He's selling victory
    bonds to help finance his case, redeemable for a quarter ounce of grass
    if and when he wins.

    all the pot heads are dreaming of a victory that will never happen.
    Change like this has to come from the legislature not from a single
    judicial decision.

    
    A "judicial decision" in OUR favor would be a nice start.
    
     Chris only sold a small CLONE....seems harmless to me.

    Seems harmless, but it is none the less against the law.

    
     True, it is against the law. That`s the whole point. It`s time
    to change this outdated law. Let adults make the choice.
     Keep in mind it`s dealers that lead to harder stuff, not the stuff
    itself. Legalize it and cut out the dealer.

    Many people do not share your view.

    That aside, do you think for a minute that organized crime will sit
    idly by as countries legalize their bread and butter?

     
    You are right, a lot of people don`t share my view.
    
     That aside, I seriously doubt organized crime counts on the sale
    of POT, for their bread and butter. They like cocaine (more money)
    or maybe prostitution......even gambling.(which is now legal)
     Besides 80-90% of pot is locally grown. So that argument is a bust!

    is it really?
    
    So, who is making money from the sale of pot?

    
    I`m not saying there is no money in it. The money is being made by
    Mr. Dealer, who in most cases, gets it from a local grower. The
    Mafia may very well be involved, but not here. It`s motorcycle gangs
    that IMPORT hashish, which should be illegal. If you can grow it here,
    without crossing any borders and your over 19.....why not? We already
    know smoking anything is bad for you, but, you can ingest and no harm
    is done.

    RE. .9
    
    	Crime bosses did nothing when alcohol was legalized during 
    prohibition. Also did nothing, when smokes dropped 3 bucks a pack,   
    virtually wiping out their smuggling. I'm not sure we are ready for 
    legalization, but decriminalization of possession should be the way to go.
                                                          
    Sean

    During Prohibition, The "Mobsters" were somewhat happy,
    that booze became legal, not all but some, because with the 
    legalization of booze, they could offer their patrons 
    beverages in their upcoming gambling institutions.
    When they housed their Gambling Casinos, their profits
    sky-rocketed, much more than the pety profits from booze.
    With the smuggling of booze, the profits were shared amongst
    several families, with the legalization of Gambling, one sole
    family came forth and had the power.  Through time, the monies
    were shared.
    Now, decriminalization of possession, really makes no sense,
    that is in fact legalyzing the use of it...  What sense is it
    to charge someone using it and not charging one to have it..?
    The solution, is to use force like New York recently,
    they sttod their ground on every issue, used force, the crime rate
    dropped, streets were reapired and cleaned, graffiti in the stations
    disappeared, charged people who were let go before etc..
    Stand hard, stand your ground, if you legalize this, whats next?
    society today, is venturing off into entrenching rights for the 
    specaila interests groups..ie: topless women..
    I'd like to see a government who makes the rules, enforces, and stands
    their ground.
    Rik...

    What is the sense of charging someone period for smoking up or having
    pot in their possession? What is the difference between drinking on the
    street or smoking pot on the street? In one case you get a fine, the
    other you go to court and face a criminal record. Alcohol and smoking
    are the most destructive drugs in this country yet we still talk about
    pot as one of the evils of our society. If you catch someone smoking a 
    joint then give them a fine. I would rather throw more money into nailing 
    drunk pinheads on the roads than arresting  Johnny Welfare for smoking 
    a joint on the street. 
    
    AND.. before I hear any crap that in our Canadian society that we have
    traditions and social methods which date back hundreds of years, and
    banning drugs such as pot is part of this tradition and therefore will
    not change / cannot change. (As I have heard before from social sheep 
    in this notes file "This is the way of things") Think about this, why are 
    police overlooking simple possession of pot on the street when the law
    dictates they must arrest and prosecute for this crime? (perhaps their
    own decriminalization process) Geez, what do they know anyways...
    
    
    Sean
    

    The laws are set by the beliefs of society.
    You say pot and alcohol are the most destrcutive in society,
    then you say why charge them with possession? 
    The answer is simple, its against the law to have contraband
    on your person.  this is the theory of the Socialists, let them off
    loose, give them a fine, its not that bad.
    Hey! I don't want my kid, standing beside a loser smoking pot,
    arrest him, put him in a holding cell, charge him, 
    let him pay for his own lawyer, give the bum a $5000 fine
    3 months in jail, and lets see if you'll see this guy do it again.
    If he does it again, double the sentence.
    Today's society is giving in to the Socialists, put a bone in
    your back and stand up to the thugs...
    If your stereotype of the cops, where they won't bother with 
    possession, then I hope they get caught and get fired for it.
    Laws are there for a reason.
    Rik...

    Ricky,
    
    	first off I said "alcohol and smoking" which meant smoking
    cigarettes not pot in Canada. You stated that Canadian laws are set by 
    beliefs of the society, please tell me how marijuana came into being 
    banned in this country. And then please tell me how society has the same 
    views as they did in 1938. Socialism has nothing to do with the discussion.
    (please do not ever equate me with Socialism again!) Points to know before
    you label me any further. Personally I do not avocate anyone take drugs, 
    this includes alcohol but I also respect their right to make decisions 
    in life. I do not tolerate children under 18 taking any substance and
    would like to nail anyone giving drugs to them.
    
    Now to your points...
    
    Please tell what, if any experience you have dealing with drugs, abuse,
    pot-heads, alcoholics, etc.. It seems you know my experience, so
    please do tell yours. 
    
    	You would not want your kid standing next to a pot head while they
    smoked up, well what about a standing next to a beer head while they
    got drunk, is that much better for the kid? I have seen this countless
    times before. Johnny gets nailed for being drunk at school, Johnny goes
    home, and Johnny's dad says thank God it was not dope. Guess it is much
    better to addicted to booze than to smoke the occasional joint. The 
    misrepresentation given to parents makes them overlook serious alcohol 
    problems until it is too late, but the alarm bells go off immediately 
    when it is some other kind of drug. 
    
    You talk about cleaning up the streets. How many thousands of people
    should we put in jail for pot to have the best results? How much money
    are we going to spend to build 3X the amount of jails we have now. We
    already give true criminals in Canada way too little time in jail, yet
    you want victimless pot smokers to go away for three months. How many
    10 of billions dollars are we going to spend on top of the billion or
    so we spend already. Your way has already been tried (during the 60's)
    and it did not work, nor will it ever work. Would you rather not spend 
    the money on schools, education, and treatment programs. The current
    system is obviously not working yet you want the status quo to
    continue.
    
    Last point! You said that you hope the police get caught or fired for
    overlooking possession. Well I think Ottawa-Carleton's Regional Police
    Chief was already caught (in a way) when he said he hoped
    decriminalization was the way to go. What is the point of charging
    someone for possession, getting them finger printed, going to court,
    and then having a judge slapping a conditional discharge of the
    criminal. Surely it is easier to give someone a 200.00 fine up front.
    They deal with the problem everyday and have come to realize the
    futility of charging Joe Public with possession everytime they come
    across it.
         
    
    Sean 
    
    

    Sean:
    i know your not a socialist lad, it was a joke.
    i have had a lot of experience with these people, with my
    prior job to this one.  i know their behaviours, attitudes,
    and excuses for their "problems", much of which i don't
    want to discuss here, some people might be offended.
    My point is simple you have to be stern when you make a point
    in law.  if you want to give a fine, then so be it,
    just make it a fine, that will hurt them finacially, if the fine is too
    small, then there is no point made, is there?
    and yes, drugs and alcohol are the same, alcohol is a drug,
    but its legal, so you can't address them as the same in law.
    You can put them in the same category as a "problem"
    life destroyers etc...depending on your choice.
    so all in all, my point is, no matter what they do, make it so
    so that the nect time the person is about to do it, he remembers back
    on how the forirst time he got caught, that it hurt him financially
    or whatever.
    capiche?
    Au Mardi mon ami,
    Rik...

    Ricky,
    
    	so you agree with decriminalization then. I knew I could persuade
    you. :-)
    
    I still do not like though how you classify the drugs on the basis of
    what is legal and illegal. There has been no known deaths attributed to 
    pot yet how many deaths are going to be attributed to alcohol this
    year. I look at in a social sense, not what is contraband. I have never
    seen pot ruin someones life except for the legal aspects. As for the
    stepping stone theory (going from soft to hard drugs), I think that the
    illegality of marijuana creates the criminal context for drug dealers
    to introduce new and more expensive drugs to their customers. This
    would be avoided if it was regulated by the government (as they did in
    the Netherlands). I still do have reservations about making marijuana
    legal, therefore for me the only other alternative would be the
    decriminalization route. Well that's my 10 cents worth of opinion...
    
    Sean