Conference kaosws::canada

    As it happens, I saw a book on the subject of this regiment in a local
    store on the weekend.  Apparently they were in Canada during the 1660s.
    I know nothing more than that -- but there is currently a book
    available in Canada in English on the subject.
    
    -Stephen

    Thanks, Stephen, for your "instant" reply.

    Now my curiousity is increasing: could I ask you to post here the
    details of the book, so that I can order it from Italy ?

    I'm ready to "pay" for this information by sending a couple of photos
    on the subject to you and other interested noters (e-mail me private
    addresses).

    Ciao - Gianfranco

    I did a little reading last night, and found that the Carignan-Salieres
    regiment actually played an important part in the history of New
    France.
    
    The government of the colony was reorganized in the early 1660s under
    Louis XIV's minister Jean-Baptiste Colbert.  There had existed for some
    time a more or less continuous state of guerrilla warfare between the
    Iroquois and the French colonists, and it was for this reason that the
    regiment was sent out in 1665.  In a couple of campaigns, the country
    of the Mohawks (one of the 5 nations of the Iroquois confederacy) was
    invaded, and villages and fields burned.  According to historian W. J.
    Eccles in his book "France in America", "...the Iroquois were
    sufficiently cowed by this display of might and the full panoply of a
    European campaign that they honoured the terms of the peace treaty
    [that was then signed] for nearly two decades.  This was just long
    enough for Colbert to implement his colonial policy."
    
    When the regiment was recalled to France in 1668 more than 400 of its
    men and a number of officers chose to remain in New France as settlers.
    
    -Stephen

    The book I saw on the weekend was "The Good Regiment," by Jack Verney,
    published in 1991 by McGill-Queen's University Press, ISBN 077 350
    8139, price $37.95 Canadian.  McGill-Queen's University Press books are 
    distributed by University of Toronto Press.
    
    -Stephen

    
    	I recognized "Carignan's regiment" from a novel _Emilie_,	
    which was an English translation of _Les_Filles_du_Caleb_. Emilie's
    family was descended from a soldier in Carignan's regiment  who 
    married a "fille du roi".
    
    	The way they referred to it in the novel made me think that
    it was a well known part of the history of Quebec and Quebec families.
    
    Candace

    After nearly four months, it's time to express my thanks to Stephen
    and Candace for their precious hints.

    Shortly after reading 736.4, I ordered the book. It arrived two
    months later (speed comparable with that of the Carignan-Sali�res
    sailing from La Rochelle to Qu�bec !) and I just finished reading it.
    Great book: you can read it as a novel, although nothing is left to
    imagination, as every statement or judgment is supported by
    historical documents.

    In my base note I wrote of a regiment of Piedmonteese soldiers: now
    I know this was a mistake. The Regiment has in fact a Piedmonteese
    origin, but, as the author says, fourteen years after raising the
    Carignano Regiment (note the final -o), in 1658 Thomas Francis of
    Savoy was forced (due to the cost of upkeeping it) to turn it to the
    full control of France, and its name was changed to the Carignan
    Regiment. This regiment was later amalgamated with another, the
    Sali�res Regiment.

    At the time of the Mohawk campaign the Regiment was entirely made up
    by French soldiers and officers. So the homage given by Prince Thomas
    on the walls of his Carignano Palace here in Turin was addressed to
    the institution (still nominally tied to the Savoy family - the prince
    of Carignano was still the nominal commander of one of the Regiment's
    companies) rather than to the people, who acted in name of the
    king of France.

    The book gives as an appendix a partial nominal roll, that could be
    of great interest for genealogical searches (I'm going to pass this
    info to the GENEALOGY conference).

    I talked about this story with a friend of mine living in France,
    and she found traces of the "Carignan Sali�res" in the Perche region,
    near Paris !

    I am delighted by this worldwide discussion.
    Thanks again to all of you Canadian noters.

    Gianfranco

    *** My ignorance still leaves me with another curiousity: who was
        Marie de l'Incarnation? - She is quoted in every page of the
        book, and I can imagine she was a rather important person ... 

    That would be the Virgin Mary. The Incarnation family never really
    existed.
    
    hope this helps.
    
    Glenn

    Marie de l'Incarnation was leader (Mother Superior?) of Ursuline nuns
    in 17th century Quebec.  Don't know much more than that.
    
    

RE. -1

Wasn't that Marguerite Bourgeous?

Ben

I did a little reading last night:

"Marie de l'Incarnation, a competent businesswoman from Tours, founded the
Ursuline Monastery at Quebec in 1639.  Turning to the study of Indian
languages, she and her colleagues helped implement the policy of assimilating
the young Indians.  Then, gradually abandoning that futile policy, they turned
to the education of the French colonists.  Marie de l'Incarnation developed the
farm on the Ursuline seigneurie and served as an unofficial adviser to the
colonial administrators.  She also helped draw attention and money to the
colony by writing some 12,000 letters between 1639 and her death in 1672."

-- from "New France:  Les femmes favoris�es" by Jan Noel

Marguerite Bourgeoys was another 17th-century "religieuse" whose work was 
mainly in Montreal. 

    Thanks again, Stephen.
    I'm going to hire you as a consultant on Canadian history (Monica
    Barneys agrees).

    Just two points:

    * The production of letters by Marie de l'Incarnation was really
      heavy and steady, as can be seen from the following expression

            12000 / ((1672 - 1639) * 365 + 9) = 0.9955

      that means exactly one letter per day !

    * In his book Jack Verney, when reporting a fact, says literally
      that "Marie de l'Incarnation described it in a letter to her
      son, ...".
      One has to imagine that this was a "spiritual" son, or a son
      born before MdI entered religious life.
      Any other explaining ?

    Greetings,
    Gianfranco

Info from the article on Marie Guyart ("dite Marie de  l'Incarnation") in the
Dictionary of Canadian Biography:

Born 1599, daughter of a master baker.  Her mother's family was aristocratic.
Married in her teens; widowed at 19, with 6-month old son.  Lived for a time
with her sister and brother-in-law.  Ended up running the brother-in-law's
"carrier" business.  

Entered religious life while son (Claude) still fairly young.  Claude schooled 
by Jesuits.  Marie left for New France in 1639.  Claude joined the 
Benedictines of Saint Maur in 1641.  Promoted to the office of superior in 
1652, and in 1668, as assistant to the superior-general, achieved a position 
"among the principal superiors of his order."

    Thanks again, Stephen.
    You confirm your role of consultant on Canadian history.
    Now everything's clear, and this could end up the 1993 phase
    of this discussion. This gives me the opportunity for sending

    to you and all Canadian noters best wishes from Italy for

               A MERRY CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR
    Gianfranco