Conference kaosws::canada

    As a proud Canadian I will support the last Canadian team in the
    play-offs. Mike Cote is an American spy, put here to divide the
    loyalties of the true Canadian fans.
    
    
    							Derek.

	Well Mr C�t�, I thought that the experience of sharing in the
	birth of your Canadian daughter to a Canadian wife, or even more
	important, the feeling of 1500 cool electric broommm watts of
	Canadian snow clearing power at your finger tips had finally
	tipped you to being a true Canadian...but I guess not...

	Your friend, ashamedly (is that a word? ;)

	Charlie
	

    Well, I will be putting my substantial mental wishes behind my guys the
    KINGS, only because the leafs should've beat them, and if the Kings
    win, then I know my Leafs would've too (proof lies in the regular
    season stats of LEAFS-HABS games, plus the fact that the HABS are now
    outta shape after their week off)
    
    Doug (no relation to Gilmour)

    
>    Well, I will be putting my substantial mental wishes behind my guys the
>    KINGS, only because the leafs should've beat them, and if the Kings
>    win, then I know my Leafs would've too (proof lies in the regular
>    season stats of LEAFS-HABS games, plus the fact that the HABS are now
>    outta shape after their week off)
    
>    Doug (no relation to Gilmour)
    
    Very interesting comment about the HABS being out of shape.  At the
    time of this note, the HABS are leading the Kings 3 games to 1.
    Tomorrow night may just decide it... and imagine, they are playing at
    the Forum...
    
    Normand
    Montr�al, the City of Champions
    

    The best comeback from a HABS fan after game one was:
    
     They lost on purpose so they could parade around the Forum with the
     CUP after game five. At the time it seemed like whistling in the dark,
     now i am not so sure.....
    
    
    							Derek.

    Hab fans are the cockiest ones alive. Haven't heard much from
    them in a few years.
    
    	Anyways, we'll see what they'll have to say when it's 3-3
    in the series. ;*))))
    
    Andy

    The Canadiens won their 24th Stanley Cup last night with a
    4-1 victory over the LA Kings. Patrick Roy won the Conn Smythe
    as the most valuable player in the playoffs.
    
    The Canadiens win the series in 5 games and last night showed that 
    they are definitly the better team.
    
    Pat

    After another victory riot, I will never again cheer for the HABS. The
    team is definetly a winner, the "fans" are definetly losers. I have
    heard of sore losers, but sore winners ?? I just feel sorry for the
    regular folk in Montreal, who have to share their city with idiots.
    
    
    							Derek.

    The riot was definitely an ugly show last night... yeach!
    
    Derek, if you like the team, why would you stop cheering for them?
    Because of the unruly fans?  It doesn't seem fair to penalize the team
    that proved they are winners because of the riot?
    
    I guess you've stopped cheering for the Toronto Blue Jays after last
    year's celebration riots.
    
    Celebration riots are a symptom of a much larger problem based on
    unemployment, poverty, lack of faith in government, hopelessness.
    
    Those weren't fans that were rioting last night... they were hoods
    looking for an excuse to destroy.  The Stanley Cup win was merely a
    backdrop.
    
    Normand

    Here Here Derek!  There is no sane reason for the actions of those
    so-called fans in Montreal.  Stupid.  Makes me ashamed to be from
    there.
    
    Otto.

    >>I guess you've stopped cheering for the Toronto Blue Jays after last
    >>year...
    
     No, but if they do it again I will. It is probably true that the
    people who did the rioting were not at the game. (well most of them
    were not). It still does not take away from my feeling that if you
    can't win gracefully, you don't deserve to win. Unfortunatly for
    Montreal there are some low lifes that can ruin it for all, and that is
    just they way things work some times.
    
     I will never understand a "happy riot" as in both the Blue Jays and
    the Canadiens.
    
    						Derek

    The days of happy riots are long over. The baby boomers have raised a
    generation of anarchists who have no respect for others, authority and 
    property. Also, I agree with -.2 about unemployment &
    poverty/hopelessness being a big factor. People seem to be looking for
    an excuse to loot these days.

    This type of celebration riot would happen even here in Ottawa if the
    Senators won the Cup.

    At least we don't have soccer riots where many people get killed.

    If the Chicago Bulls win another NBA title this year, you wait and see
    the kind of damage that will be done there. It will be 3 riots in a
    row.

    Glenn

    
    > It still does not take away from my feeling that if you
    > can't win gracefully, you don't deserve to win.
    
    The Canadiens won because they deserved to win... and they won
    with "grace".
					
    What happened afterward is not the fault of the Canadiens, nor does it
    take away from their victory.
    
    Normand

    Don't worry Normand, it's just another ABC fan trying to find a new
    angle to slam the Habs.
    
    Glenn
    
    P.S. It's just easier all around to be a Habs fan. 

    >>Don't worry Normand, it's just another ABC fan trying to find a new
    >>angle to slam the Habs.
    
     Was a HABS fan 22 years. Since the NHL started a team in my home town, I
    cheer for them now. Good thing, because I would be embarassed to wear
    the CH logo after last night. If riots are the expected outcome of
    sporting championships, I suggest they declare the winner at the end of
    the regular season. That and I suggest those "Montreal'ers" GET A
    LIFE !!
    
    						Derek.

    re: last few

    As far as rioting after the Jays WS victory, I may be accused of having
    a bad memory, but I don't remember any.  As far as I remember, there
    was a large, noisy, exuberant crowd, but no flipped over cars or
    smashed windows or looting.  This isn't to say however, that a similar
    occurrence couldn't happen in Toronto after a championship win.  The sad
    thing is that these kind of displays of discontent can happen anywhere
    now, even in Canada.

    James

    It looks like there were 3 kinds of groups at the rioting... 
    
    1. Fans who were there to celebrate, in the majority.
    
    2. The discontented who were there to destroy.
    
    3. Professional criminals who were there to loot.
    
    The latter two groups are not hockey fans and were estimated to be
    about 1000 - 1500 people.  They simply took advantage of the situation
    knowing that the police would be absolutely powerless and outnumbered.
    
    Apparently, the criminals were out on the street around 9:00 -
    9:30 waiting for the game to end.  They had picked out the stores they
    were going to loot, and they had cars and trucks ready to haul the
    merchandise away.
    
    The Habs winning was a bonus for them... it gave them the opportunity
    to loot or destroy without fear of the police.
    
    Unfortunately, looters are part of the urban experience.  The rules
    have changed and we haven't learned how to deal with this change.  We
    have to get smarter about how we celebrate in urban settings.
    
    Normand
    
    P.S. Not ashamed to wear the HABS logo... the riot had nothing to do
    with them, nor their fans.

    >>I agree with -.2 about unemployment & poverty/hopelessness being a big
    >>factor.
    
     Why then did they do the same thing in '86 ? The recession was not
    even a bad dream in Mulroney's mind then.
    
    Friends of mine were there, and trying to stop the damage, until they
    saw that the police were doing nothing, so why risk mob retaliation.
    They went up and down St. Catherine (SP?) Street, and said they saw
    MAYBE 100 police. When I said the news reported 600, he laughed and
    said "no way". I suspect there is a certain element in Montreal that
    will riot no matter what, I also suspect a strong police presence (with
    horses and riot sticks) would keep the real "fan" from getting out of
    hand, and minimize the damage. 
    
     A bad day for sport in general, Hockey in particular, and Montreal
    specifically.
    
    							Derek.

    >>P.S. Not ashamed to wear the HABS logo... the riot had nothing to do
    >>with them, nor their fans
    
     Then please explain the crowd of people with CH sweaters, and painted on
    their face, as they overturned the car on national television ?  They
    seemed really "happy" that the Canadiens had won.
    
    There was no profit in it, and most "organized" crime stays away from
    non-profit activity. I think you can sweep it under the rug, but
    ignoring a problem has always been a good way to make sure it never
    goes away.
    
    							Derek.

    
>  I suspect there is a certain element in Montreal that
>  will riot no matter what,

Derek, what "certain element" are you talking about?  Is it the same
"certain element" that looted after the Blue Jays win?  After the
Rodney King verdict in L.A.?

Normand

    >>Derek, what "certain element" are you talking about?
    
     I hope I am talking about people who would use any excuse to act in an
    anti-social way. Why, did you take it as an anti-Quebec/French slurr ?
    If you did, I am sorry, but I can't help it if you read things into my
    words that are not there.
    
    >>Is it the same "certain element" that looted after the Blue Jays win?
    
     Well, it is certainly a debateable point, however the "looters" in
    Toronto should sign up for some "Looting Workshops" in Montreal. The
    damage in Toronto was childs play compared to what happened in
    Montreal.
    
    >>After the Rodney King verdict in L.A.?
    
     I doubt it, the RK stuff was racially motivated. The Montreal riot was
    motivated by stupidity. I hope you aren't trying to turn this into a
    race issue (as most things in Quebec seem to end up sooner or later).
    
    							Derek

>> Derek, what "certain element" are you talking about?
    
>   I hope I am talking about people who would use any excuse to act in an
>   anti-social way. Why, did you take it as an anti-Quebec/French slurr ?
>   If you did, I am sorry, but I can't help it if you read things into my
>   words that are not there.
    
We agree on this point.  This riot would have happened no matter what
the excuse.  The only point where we differ is that you will stop cheering
for the HABS because of this "element", while I maintain that they are 
not connected.

An anti-Qu�bec/French slur from you???  Never!

>> After the Rodney King verdict in L.A.?
    
>   I doubt it, the RK stuff was racially motivated. The Montreal riot was
>   motivated by stupidity. I hope you aren't trying to turn this into a
>   race issue (as most things in Quebec seem to end up sooner or later).
    
I see.  So, everyone who looted in L.A. during the riot did so out of
a profound need to protest the unjust ruling.  They looted as a way to
express their discontent.  Garbage!

Looting is looting is looting and it is motivated by greed.

I don't know why you keep bringing up the race issue.  I haven't mentioned
race once in this string.

Normand

Let's change track for a minute (hopefully for longer maybe?).

Anyone see the Disneyland commercial on the CBC news last night?

  "Patrick Roy, what are you going to do now that you've won the Stanley cup?"

Answer (as he was skating on the ice with the cup lifted up over his head):

  "I'm going to Disney's land"
		      ---

/Mario

    So what's your point?

    Any time someone mentions Rodney King, I think of poor race relations.
    Hardly an unexpected association. Sort of like associating the
    Canadiens with the people wearing their emblem. again, not an
    unexpected association.
    
     Heard today that a player (montreal of course) was taking a cab away
    from the game, and got caught in the mob. He hid in the back seat
    because he was not sure if the mob would congratulate him, or turn the
    cab over. He claimed that the Canadiens could have done some public
    service type work to try to ward off the riot by THEIR FANS. At least
    the team (or a representative) is willing to accept that is was in part
    their fans that caused the riot. Too bad their fans don't want to admit
    the same.
    
    
    						Derek

Re: .25 (what's my point?)

I'm not getting dragged into this one like I did the last time...

/Mario

    The only people who did not object to this were the numerous bar owners
    who "wetted" all these "fans".  Why do you think all these guys made it
    in the streets? because when they become too intoxicated, the bouncers
    throw them out.
    
    In french there is a saying "L'occasion fait le larron".  Loose
    translation; When the circumstances are right, you become a thief.  A
    lot of those "fans" took the chance to pilfer when they saw the police
    were not going to shoot them, and this is AFTER the stores had been
    cracked open by the pros.  As for the police, their job was to control
    the crowd, it's just that things went too fast for them, like trying to
    control a forest fire with a garden hose.  They never expected so many
    violent outbursts in what was supposed to be celebration.  
    
    We don't EXPECT crowds to perform violently, that's why there were no
    water cannons and riot control police shooting rubber (or real)
    bullets.  Even countries who do expect violent crowds can't control
    them, so why expect police here to do it in an instant.
    
    Jean
    

    Where were the horses and dogs?
    
    Doesn't Toronto use them in need?
    
    /Mario

    
    
    	Mario,
    
    	What does dirty movies have to do with riots?
    

    Let me explain Mike,
    
    Dirty movies (Saturday evening, French channel, Hockey Night in
    Canada, etc...)
    
    Montreal Riot, (French city, after a Hockey game, etc...)
    
    I see the relationship, don't you?
    
    /Mario

    
    
    	Dogs and Horses?