Conference hydra::dejavu

    re: .0
    
         Michael--Fire
         Raphael--Wind
         Uriel--Earth
         Gabriel--Water
                      
    
    Frederickael--Money
    
    

   Actually, I thought there were 12 and that they corresponded to different
   traits in man.

   Sorry, I don't remember where this little tidbit came from, so I may be
   way off base.  Something about early Christian writings -- pre 4th
   century...

   I'm kind of hoping some noter will recognize what I'm talking about and
   elaborate.


   							Terza

    re: .2, 
    	Hi Terza,
    
    	You're right, that's one of the ideas about Angels, but 
    	I don't know much about that aspect.  I'll build a little
    	on Frederick's correspondences.
    
    re: .0,
    	The basis of the concept of Angels is believed by many to come
    	from the Persian Zoroastrian notion of armies of light and dark
    	corresponding to hierarchies of archangels and archdemons.
    
    	The modern conception is seen in the Bible, such as in the
    	story of Jacobs Ladder, and was developed by the Medieval Christian 	
    	Church.  Angels are messengers or intermediates between Heaven and
    	Earth or between God and humanity.  They have no body, and no sex
    	... err ... I mean they have no gender, I don't know what they
    	do in private.   In Roman Catholicism, their essence is to sing
    	hymns to God.  They have intelligence and will, and the liberty
    	to sin if they wish to.  Their intelligence is considered greater
    	than human, but of course short of God.  They are purely spiritual
    	beings.
    
    	The angels form a heavenly court of nine choirs adoring God.
    	The nine choirs consist of :
    
    	Seraphim, Cherubim, Thrones, Dominations, Virtues, Powers,
    	Principalities, Archangels, and Angels.
    
    	Some Archangels are also identified as Saints.
    
    	The Christian Archangels that are most commonly found in 
    	Theurgical magic derived from the (Hermetic) Qabbalistic tradition are :
    
    	MICHAEL  --  Messenger of divine judgement (pictured as a warrior
    	with a sword), associated with fire, Summer, noon, South, the wand,
    	red, the Lion, and the elemental Salamanders.
    
    	GABRIEL  --  Messenger of divine mercy, pictured as holding
    	a lily at Annunication, associated with  water, Autumn, dusk,
    	West, the cup, the color blue, the Eagle, amd the elemental
    	Undines.
    
    	RAPHAEL  --  Divine healer and guardian, pictured as a pilgrim with
    	a sword, associated with air (wind), Spring, dawn, either North or
    	East depending on the tradition, the color yellow, the Angel,
    	and the elemental Sylphs.
    
    	AURIEL (URIEL)  --  called the Fire of God, prophecy and wisdom.
    	Pictured as holding a scroll and a book, and associated with
    	earth, Winter, night, either East or North, the shield (disk,
    	coin, pentagram), the color black, the Bull, and the elemental
    	Gnomes.
    
    	Angels also seen in Hermetic Qabbalistic Theurgy, the 19th c. 
    	root synthesis leading to many modern practices, repeating the
    	ones above and corresponding to the 10 Sephiroth ...
    
    	Metatron	in Keter
    	Ratziel		in Chokmah
    	Tzaphkiel	in Binah
    	Tzadkiel	in Chesed
    	Khamael		in Geburah
    	Raphael		in Raphael
    	Hamel		in Netzach
    	Michael		in Hod
    	Gabriel		in Yesod
    	Sandalphon	in Malkut
    
    	Sorry, I lost their zip codes and favorite birds.  :-D
    
    							hope this helps,
    								todd

    re: .3,
    	I just remembered ... in Islam there are four Archangels as well,
    	which inhabit heaven beneath the Throne of God.
    	I don't know much about Islam, though, or whether they correspond
    	to the four discussed previously in any way.
    
    								todd

    re: .3 again,
    
>    	Raphael		in Raphael
    
    	Oops, I made Raphael recursive.  Sorry about that, Raphael !
    
    	Obviously, I meant Raphael in Tiphareth.   Unless you're 
    	doing Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle magic, in which case
    	Raphael might well be visiting Raphael, or vice versa. :-)
    
    								todd

    If I remember correctly, Michael is the Arch Angel that watches over
    the House of Israel....Gabriel is for the Gentiles.....
    
    In the Islamic faith, it is Gabriel who is the Arch Angel to the Arabs
    ( and to whomever else is Muslim ).