Conference hydra::dejavu

Ernie, I find the notes that you enter very helpful and inspiring.
Thank you!

Paul

RE: .0

Oh so true...at least for me.  I know many who would argue and say we
should avoid conflict and pain if at all possible...I feel very sad for
them because it is only after the thunder storm that we are able
to see the rainbow and it's many bright colors.

Thank you for entering the base note...it was wonderful.

Peace,

susan

    I've been reading Matthew Fox's book _Original_Blessing_, and he speaks
    of this in his section on the Via Negativa.  He believes that we should
    embrace suffering rather than run away from it--not for masochistic
    reasons, but rather so that we can then deal with it and overcome it.
    
    -- Mike

    
    " In the intense heat of the furnace, the gold is purified..."
    
    "The tree that only knows fair weather, may be lost in a raging
    storm "
    
    -Brian

    
    
    "He,who fails to move out of the way of a moving vehicle,is likely to
    be run over"
    
    
   "The tree that will know only fair weather,need not fear the raging
    storm"
    
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    
    "He, who lives in the woods, never learns to move out of the way of a 
    moving vehicle"
    
    
   "The tree that will know only fair weather, probably lives in a
    restaurant"
    

    "He who lives in the woods, probably lives in a restaurant."
    
    "The tree that will know only fair weather, never learns to move out of
    the way of a moving vehicle."
    
    -- Mike

    "The tree that lives in restaurants never need fear moving vehicles."
    
    "He who lives in restaurants, probably doesn't care about the weather."
    
    Frederick
    

    "The restaurant that lives in the woods, need never fear weather
    vehicles"
    
    "He who drives a restaurant, probably doesn't care about the woods"
    
    Mary

    
    And I thought *I* was twisted....;-)

        The progress of this  topic is an illustration of the illusion of
        fun-and-suffering.  Suffering is a serious matter, and it doesn't
        present itself as a reward in  itself  but  rather  more  as  the
        outcome of something unfortunate.  Fun can be a  serious  matter,
        and it's applications to any situation requires a bit of reserve.
        
        To suffer is really a way to measure  your  resilience.  Although
        conflict  may  come at inconvenient times of our lives  (and  the
        greater the conflict the greater the suffering);  if when we have
        the  fortitude  to  face it and use it to our advantage  then  we
        truly  are  greater  than the power of the adversity we had faced
        earlier.  If  earlier  we  faced  the conflict with *dread*, then
        *dread* no longer empowers us, and so on.
        
        To enjoy fun is  another  measure  of  your  resilience.  And the
        adages and re-worded adages showed  in  a  very simple way how we
        can use fun to deal with  even  the  most  serious  situations in
        life.  This is not disrespect but rather just another plane which
        we find a challenge and (again, if we have the fortitude) welcome
        it with a smile.
        
        Both  fun  and  suffering    are   meters  that  help  gauge  our
        survivability.  The better we  use  these  meters then the better
        our lives become -- that is, we are less confronted with the need
        to survive and become aware of the need to thrive.
        
        When  we come closer to accomplishing our potential we  make  the
        illusion reality.

        Tone

    This weekend is the IronMan Triathlon. What these men and women do for
    fun and suffering is, if you don't know, swim 2.2miles in the ocean,
    than run to their bicycles and ride them for 112miles and than right
    away run 26.2 miles. Last years winner was Mark Allen, and from what
    I've read from his book and in magazines, is that he uses the vehicle
    of triathlon as a way of self realization and discovery. I guess one
    gets to really know ones inner way of working thru physical and 
    emotional suffering by this method. The victories and defeats in racing
    these kinds of races test your metal so to speak.
    
    So Allens "spiritual path" is one of fun, because you get the sense
    that he does enjoy what he does, despite the toll of suffering and
    emotional exhaustion one can be dealt with after a race like this. 
    
    If your ready for it, anything you do can be a way towards
    self-discovery and enlightenment. From sweeping the floor and hearing 
    the sound of the pebble "ping" as its swept across the floor, to 
    competing in races like Mark Allen does. If while performing your
    effort in action, awakens something within you....the traditional forms
    like yoga, meditation, and chanting....there also are the ways of
    sweeping the floor, surfing a wave or skateboarding a halfpipe, that
    can also awaken the sleeping giant of your mind.
    
    ConTempo Mystic
    -arthur

    re: .3
    
    Mike,
    
    Could you tell some more about _Original_Blessing_?  It's one I've
    never heard of, and it seems time for some new reading material.  Does
    the entire book deal with the subject of suffering, or just the one
    chapter you mentioned?  
    
    Many thanks,
    Nancy
    

    Nancy,

    _Original_Blessing_ is a book about spirituality that discusses Mathew
    Fox's "Creation Spirituality" is detail.  It does not just deal with
    suffering.  The book has four sections:  the Via Positiva, the Via
    Negativa, the Via Creativa, and the Via Tranformativa.  The section on
    the Via Negativa is the one that primarily discusses embracing
    suffering and darkness in order to overcome it (although Fox touches on
    that subject in other sections as well).

    Fox is a Roman Catholic priest who has faced the wrath of the Vatican
    for his independent thinking.  Among his "crimes" are a belief in
    feminism, his acceptance of homosexuality, and his acceptance of the
    value of Native American and Wiccan spiritualities.  He is an
    interesting person, and his book "Original Blessing" presents an
    alternative spirituality to what he calls the "Fall/Redemption"
    spiritualities of much of orthodox Christianity.

    -- Mike

    Having just spent last weekend with Matthew Fox  ;') (he presented a
    Friday night lecture and Saturday day-long workshop in Watertown, MA),
    I highly recommend reading his books or if the opportunity presents 
    itself, to see him in person.  What I admired most about Matthew Fox
    is that he doesn't just 'talk' about Creation Sprituality, he 'lives'
    it and enables those who meet him to 'experience' it as well (through
    art, dance, and music).
    
    Ro
    

    Re Matthew Fox and Original Blessing
    
    I pretty much rejected Christianity during my adolescent years only to
    return again (joyfully!) through the not-so-new theology of Creation 
    Spirituality.  In _Original Blessing_ and _The Coming of the Cosmic 
    Christ_ Matthew Fox acquaints you with the creation-centered Christians 
    of times gone by and the philosophy they all shared that creation is 
    blessed, including all humanity, and that Christianity was founded on 
    the notion that we are all born with "original blessing", not Augustine's 
    doctrine of original sin which many Christians have been force fed for
    centuries.
    
    I also have had the opportunity to spend time with Matthew Fox both
    during the summer and most recently this past weekend at the same event
    Ro mentioned (.16).  For anyone who wishes to expand upon their
    understanding of Christianity, I **highly recommend** Creation 
    Spirituality and Matthew Fox's books.
    
    If anyone is interested in reading a couple of excerpts of an 
    interview with Matthew Fox feel free to contact me off-line.  You may
    also want to consider looking at note 12 "Creation Spirituality", in
    notesfile conference LGP30::CHRISTIAN-PERSPECTIVE. 
    
    Karen  

>>    also want to consider looking at note 12 "Creation Spirituality", in
>>    notesfile conference LGP30::CHRISTIAN-PERSPECTIVE. 
    
	Thank you Karen.   

	I will take a look see.

	8^)
	Mikki

    
    His books are readily available at the Toadstool Bookstore in Milford,
    NH.
    
    Cindy

    re:  last few
    
    Thanks everyone for putting in more information.  Matthew Fox sounds 
    like a *very* interesting man.  I also "gave up" on Catholicism - about
    sixteen or more years ago.  I feel like there's a bit of a void where 
    there needs to be some beliefs....maybe what I need are some new ideas.
    
    Nancy
    

    Re.20
    
    Hi Nancy,
    
    You might be interested in the new CHRISTIAN-PERSPECTIVES notes
    conference.  Sorry, don't have the node handy...anyone know it?
    
    Cindy

    For those interested in more information on Creation Spirituality and
    Matthew Fox, and/or the relatively new notesfile Christian-Perspective,
    read note 1368.17 and hit KP7 to add it to your notebook.  Creation
    Spirituality is note #12.
    
    And as one of the co-moderators of Christian-Perspective, I offer a 
    very warm welcome to you!
    
    Karen

Came across this this morning ... think I'll go make some signs 8-}
    
    
    
     			How to Be an Artist

Stay loose.  Learn to watch snails. Plant impossible gardens.  Invite 
someone dangerous to tea.  Make little signs that say YES! and post 
them all over your house.  Make friends with freedom & uncertainty.  
Look forward to dreams.  Cry during movies.  Swing as high as you can 
on a swingset, by moonlight.  Cultivate moods.  Refuse to "be 
all grown up."  Do it for love.  Take lots of naps.  Give money away.  
Do it now.  The money will follow.  Believe in magic.  Laugh a lot.  
Celebrate every gorgeous moment.  Take moonbaths.  Have wild 
imaginings, transformative dreams, and perfect calm.  Draw on the 
walls.  Read everyday. Be magic.  Giggle with children.  Listen to 
old people.  Open up. Dive in.  Be free.  Bless yourself.  Drive 
away fear.  Play with everything.  Entertain your inner child.  
You are innocent.  Build a fort with blankets.  Get wet.  
Hug trees.  Write love letters.  
          

    Gee... sounds good to me. :-)
    
    Mary

    That's great Cindy, lots of creative suggestions in there...  Some I've
    done already, some I'm inspired to do in the future...
    
    Speaking of which, I've never had tea with a dangerous person before,
    but I have had coffee with a few... Yes!  Who know who you are! :-)
    (Carole, Frederick, Terry, Nanci, Mary, Dave...)  Now is there anyone 
    dangerous out there I can have tea with sometime?
    
    Kb.:-)

    Actually we have had tea together, Kb, but it was iced tea.  Does that
    count?
    
    :-)
    
    Nanci

    Hi Nance,
    
    Does iced tea count (Liptons)?
    
    Naw... I feel I've gotta do a 'bag' with someone.
    
    Next time you're out here okay? :-) :-)
    
    Kb

    
    
    Thanks Cindy!  That was great!
    
    Carole

    re: last few...
    
         I did all that this past weekend....What now? ;-) ;-) ;-)
    
                                                        Capt.Scott

    You're on, Kb!  :-)
    
    Nanci

    Captain .29,
    
    > What now?
    
    Congrats man, you're an artiste!
    
    Nanci,
    
    Okay - let's get dangerous next time you're out here.
    
    Kb
    
    p.s.  Funny thing happened this past Friday night after posting that
    	note (.2?) I attended a workshop with 2 definitely dangerous people, 
    	(Carole and Ro) had a pizza afterwards and they ordered tea!  Now 
    	that's a dangerous combination if you ask me... pizza & tea.  I
    	abstained...from the tea. :-)

    re: -1
    
        Strange....I have the sudden urge to create!!  I always knew i had
    it in me! oh yeah, hi KB!
    
                                                               Capt. Scott

    Hi Captain!
    
    It's nice to see you again.  A sudden urge to create?  I bet I have an
    idea:  Biosphere III located somewhere in the Carribean...? :-) 
    Under the water perhaps?
    
    Keep in touch creative friend :-)
    
    Kb

    
    
    	You said you came across this this morning: were you wandering in
    your mind, down a little used pathway and discover it there?
    
    	Or did you read it somewhere?  If so, do you remember where?
    
    Craig
    
    

    Yes, I read it somewher ... on a scrap of paper underneath many others.
    Where it originated, heaven knows  8-) ...
    
    C.
    

    Published in our local "phenomeNEWS" for June ...
    
    Historically, at Midsummer, Nature Spirits become more visible and
    magic is at its most potent.  It is a Midsummer tradition to clean the
    home and decorate it with flowers and boughs, to bathe at Sunrise in a
    lake or river, to prepare water with flower blossoms for morning
    washing, to leap over an open fire to clean the aura, to burn sage and
    cedar for purification, to light candles for meditation.  Midsummer is
    a good time to weed gardens because sap has risen to its highest level;
    little life force remains in in roots.  Similarily, little vitality
    remains in the roots of the psyche; an excellent time to weed yourself
    of unhealthy habits and partners.
    

    
    Oh, I like that Cindy!  Is Midsummer meant literally....halfway 
    between the summer solstice and the autumn equinox?
    
    Carole

    Hmmm, Carole if it the same as Teltane, then it is.  From the
    Essene Book of Days:
    
    Teltane, halfway between Summer Solstice and Autuman Equinox,
    derives its name from the Celtic fire festival and is celebrated
    on July 31 or August 1.  Traditionally a time for games similar
    to the Olympics, it was considered the first day of autumn.  The
    purpose of the fire (Ro: the word fire comes up again!) festival was to
    marry the sun to the earth, thus rejuvenating the sun until the harvest
    was complete.  On Teltane, or Lammas, the first grain harvest was 
    also celebrated, as grain was the sacred symbol of death and
    resurrection.  In this way, Teltane also marks the time when the
    Celtic God of Light, Lugh, buried his foster mother Tailltiu
    beneath a great mound of earth, signifying the withdrawal of the
    Mother Goddess as she prepares for the falling seeds of autumn.
    Blackberries are the traditional fruit to be gathered at this time,
    and baked and eaten in pies.
    
    Ro
    

>some people who actually call the solstice itself Midsummer's Day, which
>is odd considering that we think of it as the first day of summer.

	The summer solstice is, indeed, Midsummer's Day.  The (modern)
	custom of referring to the solstice as the "first day of summer"
	is a mistake.  The summer solstice, the point when the sun reaches
	its highest elevation and then begins its descent into darkness,
	very clearly fits the symbolism of the Midsummer pagan festival.

	Likewise, the winter solstice is in fact Midwinter's day, and not
	(as it is currently called) "the first day of winter" -- the darkness
	has reached its maximum, and the light begins to return.

	My own suspicion is that this kind of confusion results from the
	way modern folk have gotten out of touch with the movement of the
	sun during the year.  No one who really experiences the solar year
	could make that kind of error.

	By the way, the half-way holidays (between a solstice and an
	equinox) appear to be derived from a separate calendar than the
	planting/harvesting holidays.  That is to say, the solstice/equinox
	holidays are clearly related to planting/harvesting, while the other
	four seem to be derived from the breeding cycles of various domesticated
	animals (cows, hogs, etc).  At some point, they were probably lumped
	together to form the eight-fold pagan calendar.

	~art

    Re.  .37
    
    What .40 said.
    
    :-)