Conference hydra::dejavu

    
     Tis good, to stop every now and then and take a look around, at
    what life is really about; instead of always being in the past or
    future. I think, what was written, is very interesting. It sounds
    like, that, this young man is in a state of shock, because he had
    finally realized that he is in the NOW time, and not then or there.
     I'm *HERE*. I was there: but I left there and came here, where
    I am now. I haven't reached there yet, so I'm not going to worry
    about what's over there, until I get there: which will then, be
    right *HERE* and now. So I'll deal with that, when it gets here
    where I am now. I don't have to worry about going there, because
    i know now, that, it (Which is there) will come here to me, where
    I am.
    
    Lorenzo
    

    Yes. Yes. I frequently have such an experience. I've practiced
    meditation for years, and my experience is that every "good" session
    is accompanied by such feelings. You can learn to make this stable
    if you practice meditation, and there are books that help lead you
    to this way of being in the world:
    
    1. Gestalt Therapy Verbatim. Perls, Heferline, and Goodman
    
    2. Be Here Now. Ram Das (Richard Alpert)
    
    3. Pulling Your Own Strings. Wayne Dyer.
    
    4. The Silent Pulse. George Leonard.
    
    5. Stalking the Wild Pendulum. Itzak Bentov.
    
    It is entirely natural to feel this way, and as you have noticed,
    it is quite unusual to most people in our culture.
    
    Lorenzo

    Re:2
    
      I'm not the one who needs meditation. Why did you sign my name
    on your reply?
    
    Lorenzo
    

    In response to 1046.0...I have had a very similar experience while
    meditating.  I am not able to get that same feeling very often,
    only if I am totally relaxed, and "go into" the session in a certain
    order.  That is, I usually follow along with an audio tape called
    Creative Thinking.  Part of the tape instructs you to go to a place
    outside (in your imagination) where it is a beautiful sunny day,
    filled with blue sky and warm breezes.  I nearly always imagine myself
    lying on the ground looking up.  You follow a certain order of
    breathing in a pattern, flexing and relaxing each muscle group from
    toes up to facial muscles, and so on.  When this works best, I have
    experienced the same feeling of "this is reality, I'm here" and
    felt that instead of spending the night sleeping (which I was),
    I was out enjoying the beautiful day in nature.  Usually when I
    really AM outside enjoying nature, I'm also walking, gardening or
    otherwise occupied.  This was a total feeling of relaxation - as
    if I had gone to another place.  After waking up in the morning
    I felt the exhilarated feeling you mentioned...it lasted all day
    for me.  
    
    The exhilarated feeling varies in length depending upon how "far
    into" the meditation I went.  I've never had an "uncontrolled"
    incident, such as you mentioned, when it that feeling just happens.
    The tape I have is designed so that you can be guided into the
    meditation and "come to" right after it is finished, or just go
    off to sleep.  I found it very exciting to awaken so refreshed and
    feeling as if I had been away.  
    
    I've also imagined lying on a beach and hearing the sound of waves
    and wind.  That scenario works well also.  Possibly you could come
    to have your feeling by trying it this way.  If you are interested,
    I could try transcribing the tape here for you.  When you listen
    to it while awake or aware, it sounds rather strange...but it is
    recommended so that you tie your conscious thoughts into your
    subconscious thoughts.
    
    Hope it helps.                                   
    
    Regards,
    N.
    

    Sounds extraordinarily like a transcendental experience; when
    time and space and reality converge, resulting in a timeless,
    reasonless exhilaration.  Actually, many people experience it,
    some very briefly.  Some experience it on a mountain top, others
    in the prescence of newborn life, still others in the throws of
    sexual passion, others during worship, prayer or meditation.
    Some have described it as becoming "at one with the universe".
    
    Am I rambling, or does this hit home?
    
    RJC

    re: 1046.3
    
    Sorry Lorenzo:
    
    I couldn't resist the attempt at responding to the synchronicity
    of finding someone with the same name as mine, just before I was
    to reply.
    
    Richard Lorenzo Bradley

    re: 1046.6
    
    I've experienced this too, in the throes of sexual passion; are
    you willing to describe the throws you used, or had used on you?
    ;-)
    
    Ric
    

A further note from the Man with Presence (personal replies still cheerfully
forwarded, etc.):

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello again. I'm the author of .0

I appreciate the responses and the book suggestions via notes and forwarded
mail.  It looks like there ARE people who have experienced what I'm talking 
about. It was interesting to see the number of references to Eastern cultures. 
Someday I'll find the time to investigate further. 

What was really interesting was one author's suggestion that there are potential
sources of information that can be 'tapped' while in that state. I wonder if I
can keep that in mind next time...?

Some people mentioned meditation. I actually TRIED to meditate a few times about
10 years ago while in college.  But no luck. I'm too impatient. I've had my best
luck 'making' it happen while I'm doing things (walking, talking, etc.).
Other times, when it just happens without me trying to make it happen, (and this
is more common), I just suddenly realize that: 'hey, I'm HERE, NOW' (wherever/
whatever 'here' is) 

The feeling seems to accelerate as I REALIZE that I'm REALIZING that I'm 
here, and that whatever this is, it is really happening RIGHT NOW. <ahh, I feel 
satisfied again, like I've expressed a little more about it>

It would be interesting if those who have felt this (whether through meditation,
resting, mountain tops, whatever) would put their own descriptions of how they 
feel when experiencing this thing.

Again, thanx for the information, and thank you Topher, for posting this stuff
for me.

    I've had similar experiences when meditating, but now that I think
    about it I realize that I've had it most intensely and been able to
    sustain it the longest when I'm at the north shore and dive into the
    ocean.  There is a rock beach near Rockport where the water is quite
    cold and the surf usually powerful (unswimmable at high-tide, but
    wonderful for strong swimmers at mid-tide).  I think the shock of the
    temperature combined with the power of the sea at this place (Halibut
    Point) makes for an astonishingly exhilirating experience of here &
    now.  Unfortunately, this experience is usually curtailed by the onset
    of physical exhaustion.
    
    The base note also reminds me of Joseph Campell talking about the wheel
    and time.  We spend most of our live's on the outer rim, moving through
    space/time.  If we can find our way to the hub of the wheel, it is
    there that we can experience the timelessness and stillness of
    eternity.              

    Topher,
    
    With all due respect to your friend, why does he wish to remain
    anonymous?  I wonder only because whenever I've written into this
    notesfile the thought crossed my mind that my thoughts might be
    considered 'odd', and wonder if others feel the same way.  Eventually,
    though, I've taken the attitude that we're all just struggling with
    learning what there is to learn...aren't we?  
    
    No offense meant, whatsoever.  Just wanted to let your friend know
    that his sharings are appreciated.
    
     - N -
    

"Tomorrow is today, today is yesterday and yesterday is forever." 

In meditation, to be in the state of present is in the state of Conscious 
Mind.  Whatever human being is think, the thought is either on the future or 
in the past.  Every thoughts in the future, in the next minute or next second 
is moving into the past.  We can see the thought rising but not the falling 
before another thought comes up.  There is a gap, a space in between called 
"Vilamb" (in Sanskrit).  This Vilamb is the silence space between two thoughts. 
You may say it is the present. 

So, to be in present, you have to be in a state of "thoughtless awareness".  
This is the state Sahaja Yoga meditation is trying to achieve, trying to 
stay in this state as long as possible.  At this state, your Kundalini
rise up above your Agnya Chakra and pass through your limbic area in your
brain.  This is where "the kingdom of God" exist which is exist within us.
When your Kundalini (the desire of God) pass through the limbic area and
come out your fontanell bone on top of your head, you become a realized 
soul.  You can feel the Kundalini on top of your head and also on your palms
as a cool breeze. The Greek called it pneuma, the Hebrew called it asahas and
the Abrabic called it Ruaha in the old scripts.

Perhaps you have been in that state in the past before and the memory of
tranquality of blissful joy want to remind you the state you have been...I
am Here?

Regards,

RE: .10 (N)
    
    I'll let "my friend" answer for himself if he wishes to.  The answer
    might involve details which could give a "hint" as to his identity.
    How much of his specific reasons for annonymity he wishes to reveal
    are his business.
    
    It is also worth pointing out that to the best of my knowledge, I have
    never met nor communicated with the person who asked me to post .0.
    (Refering to them this way is clumsy so I hearby give them the
    arbitrarily selected pseudonym of "Descartes") I would not presume,
    therefore, to refer to Descartes as "my friend" without the quotation
    marks.  I have in the past posted notes to DEJAVU inviting anyone who
    wished to post a "proper" note (i.e., one which I felt was unmistakably
    within the DEC guidelines under which this conference operates)
    annonymously to use me as an agent.  I do not know whether Descartes
    remembered one of these notes, or just felt for whatever reason that I
    would be sympathetic.
    
    Although there is no need to be paranoid, we should all keep in mind
    that this is a public conference.  Anything we post here might be seen
    by people who are not sympathetic to the kind of ideas frequently
    expressed here.  Although public posting is preferable, I would not
    want anyone to suffer personal or professional damage as a result of
    expressing themselves here.  So those who feel that there personal
    situations make posting openly to this conference a risk, I offer
    this service -- as others have also.
    
    I would rather hear someones opinions/experiences/questions annonymously
    than not hear them at all.
    
    By the way -- to anyone wishing to post annonymously through me or
    through someone else you feel comfortable with -- signing your note
    with a pseudonym (marked as such) will make it seem friendlier and
    make it easier for people to refer to you in replies.
    
    					Topher
     

                                                                       
    Re.0 
    
    Des-i,
    
    I think that's positively wonderful!  
    
    Some insight on the beer - any kind of stimulant/depressant (beer, 
    coffee, tobacco, and certainly mind-altering drugs) has the effect of
    transporting you to somewhere else (another state of consciousness, for
    lack of another way of expressing it).  Speaking from my own experience
    with alcohol, back in college I used it frequently to escape the NOW,
    which was a painful, unhappy home life.  I did not know it at the time
    because I did not know any other kind of home life existed, and did not
    figure this out until about 2 years ago (someone came along and showed
    me that there are such things as happy homes free from constant stress).  
    
    Incidently, I haven't had any alcohol now for 2 years and feel no great 
    desire to have any because like what you talked about in .0 is what my 
    life is like now...finally.  I tried a couple of beers just over a year
    ago, and it was a very strange and sad feeling because it brought back 
    the feeling and memories attached to my past.  (But there are some very 
    hot days where a icy draft would go down quite nicely!  (;^)  Fortunately 
    Bass Ale makes a fairly decent non-alcoholic beer.)
    
    If you would like to, please feel free to contact me offline if you so
    choose, and I will honor your wish for anonymity.  (I'm leaving on
    Friday at noontime for 3 weeks vacation though, so be quick!)  (;^)
    
    Cindy

re ;0

The experience you described seems to be related to something I
frequently experienced as a kid.
I also often found myself repeating "jeg er her,jammen jeg er da her,
jeg er her,jammen jeg er da her..."(This is Norwegian,translated to
english it would be "I'm here,I'm really here,I'm here....").
Each time I said tomyself "I'm here" there was this feeling like I
was going one level nearer "myself",like I was uncovering "layers
of myself",like travelling into oneself.The feeling can't be expressed
in words,but it always were a very strong feeling.It could go on
for several seconds,and it also seemed to accelerate.
I've never had these experiences at the same degree after I "grew up".
I thought I was alone with this experience,never heard anybody described
it before,but this should prove that "No man is an Island". :-)

Another feeling that also seems to be related to the same experience,
is a state of awareness which I sometimes experience.When I try to
"remember myself",(I don't really know how I do it) I sometimes
suddenly find myself like awakened from sleep,and I ask myself;
What am I doing here?How did I get here? It's like visiting a remote
planet.... 

Svein Nordrum

    I've had very strong feelings of *Being here now* and I've noticed
    that it involves, for me, a feeling of connectedness with the universe,
    of congruity with life and the world. It seems to be a state of
    heightened awareness where all my senses are very strong. I don't
    practice meditation in any formal way, but it seems to be almost
    a meditative state.
    
    It also seems to be related to certain contexts, or activities:
    
    Beautiful natural surroundings often bring out this feeling,
    particularly surroundings that are expansive, such as mountain
    views, or being at the seashore. It has something to do with the
    feeling of space. Experiencing natural forces, such as wind or waves,
    or even just sun, can bring this out as well.
    
    Physical activity can do this as well; quite obviously the "throws"
    of sex is one. Certain sports can do this for me as well, especially
    running, when I've found a certain groove.
    
    Certain experiences within relationships can cause this awareness
    as well; sometimes I am simply concious of how I feel something
    about someone in a very full sense. Sometimes life transitions
    bring about this fullness of feeling as well.
    
    -roger
    

    re .0
    
    Welcome to eternity_:-)
    
    Mary

<<Another contribution by the ideolocational Descartes>>
    
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
Well, here it is Friday. One whole week since I wrote .0 .I've been thinking 
about it almost nonstop this week. It only happened once, though.

Yeah, I don't want to use my name. Sorry. Part of the reason is that I
didn't want to seem weird. (I know, I shouldn't care.) But there are other 
more important reasons, too. 

I see there are a number of people who know what I'm talking about. Its
quite a rush, isn't it? 

I don't know if there is a way to show someone else how to experience it.  
I guess I would start by saying:

  1) You gotta be straight (no beer, etc in your system)
  2) You might want to be alone (less distraction)
  3) Look around you. At the walls, floor, tv, trees, road, stream.. whatever.
  4) Try to think of nothing. Thats d*mn hard to do, but think more about
     what you are seeing/touching/hearing/doing than thinking about stuff
     like: 'I wonder what so-and-so meant by that' or 'tomorrow I've got to 
     make sure I do such-and-such'...
     Just keep looking around.
  5) Then start REALIZING where you are. 

bye.
  Des-i

 <<<A further posting from our philosophical friend.  Once again, I will
    be glad to forward EMail for anyone who wishes to send it to this
    person.
    				Topher>>>
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
I'm the base noter.
  
I had a chance to read some of the recent notes about dreams and I figured 
I'd put this in:

  About two weeks ago, while dreaming, I found myself sitting on a
  grassy bank beside a quiet stream. A friend from college, who I haven't
  seen or spoken with in several years, was sitting next to me. She and I were
  talking about that 'here-now' feeling, and she told me that I could do it 
  while I was dreaming, too. I was skeptical at first, since this was a dream,
  but she convinced me to try it. 
  Soooo, I started to just kind of look around at my surroundings, and started
  'realizing', and sure enough I started to get it!  But shortly after that I
  woke up.

  I've been hoping to do it again in a dream, but most of my dreams have been
  filled with current day-to-day issues stuff, (with dreams of crawling
  through narrow concrete tunnels [i think from the SF quake] mixed in)

  Any ideas on how I can try it again?

- Des

    Neat note, Des...
    
    One of my favorite subjects.  I have a couple of thoughts on this --
    that may or may not be of value to you.  I hope this make sense.
    
    I don't think there's much you can DO to make this happen.  In fact,
    by trying to make it happen, you're telling yourself that it's not
    really "natural", and that you have to "work" for it -- and that 
    might create a whole bunch of resistence whether you know it or not.
    
    For me, it's more a matter of BEING rather than doing or trying.  You
    can try to be calm (in which there's a lot of struggle) -- or you can
    just be calm.  As Yoda said, "Try not. Do!"  I've remembered those
    words many times when I was "trying" something.
    
    I remember a time when I didn't realize I was "here", as much as I do
    now.  But I don't remember any significant event or exercise that
    changed that.  I think (in too many ways to define) I realized that
    not being "here" was a denial and resistance of this world and of
    myself.  By keeping my mind so occupied, I could avoid acknowledging
    how much I really knew...and how much of my life I was really in
    control of.  Why would I want to deny those things?  I don't know...
    maybe I thought I deserved the pain and blindness...or maybe I wanted
    to experience it for the thrill of it.
    
    However, now that I keep my eyes open (so to speak), I have no desire
    to go back (at length) into that state of hiding.  When I find myself 
    getting lost in details and drama...I take a look at why I am hiding 
    again.
    
    Being HERE...   where else is there to be?  And why?
    
    When you're HERE, don't you get the feeling that you can be HERE
    anytime you want to?  Ask yourself "Why not??!" when you're feeling
    that way.  It's just a bit odd to realize how much we hide, isn't it?
    
    To further answer your question about things you can do, I would
    suggest that you just *decide* to be HERE.  You can still interact
    with other people and carry out everyday tasks, while being aware
    of being HERE.  The interactions and tasks just take on a different
    look.  And anytime you discover that you've been whirling down some
    path ignoring the feeling of now, gently put that aside and be HERE
    again.
    
    Two more things I keep at the top of my thoughts are:  Love as much
    as you can from wherever you are -- and -- No resistance.  I think
    they may help me WANT to be HERE. :-)
    
    I don't know if this is useful for you.  I think I understand what
    you are talking about.  It IS very exhilerating...and I feel
    exhilerated most of the time! :-)  Surroundings really don't have
    much to do with it.  So, based on what I think you're refering to, 
    I'm attempting to explain how it is that I *think* I'm that way. :-)  
    It's not easy to know for sure -- because it just is!!
    
    Peace,
    
    Jerri

re: .18 (Des)

    It sounds like lucid dreaming to me.  To induce lucid dreaming (a technique
    used by Carlos Castaneda in _Journey To Ixtlan_ and Kenneth Kelzer in
    _The Sun and the Shadow_) try thinking about your hands during the day and
    moving them into your field of view, saying to yourself, "This is a 
    dream".  Then when (and if) you see your hands in your dream and you find
    yourself saying "This is a dream" it may trigger lucidity.  Check into
    the books I've mentioned if you choose to pursue it.

    I've never tried it, so I can't give personal testimony.

    Terry
   

    Terry .20 and Des
    
    I have tried the technique you mention using the hands.  It has worked
    for me.
    
    Kb
    

    An addendum to .19...
    
    By the way, my reply was in response to your discussion on being
    awake...
    
    Also, I'd like to add, that I'm aware that the realization of being 
    "here" has a lot of different intensities.  I've experienced various 
    ones, but the intensity with which I have it every day, of course, is
    just *one* kind of intensity -- and that fluctuates too.  I think the
    intensity increases the more you are "here".
    
    Again, I don't think there's anything to "work towards".  I think it's
    simply a matter of being aware of here and now.  If that's really how
    you want to be, nothing can stop you.
    
    Play with it -- and ease into it slowly -- if that's what you'd like
    to do!  Just enjoy! :-)
    
    Jerri

               Des,
    
      (re..0)
    I had my first experience of bing "here now" about a year ago. I was 
    skiing across a large lake (I live in Northern New England),it was an
    overcast day this made the snow look a little gray. The far shore was 
    covered with evergreens and rose up to form a hillside. This gives one
    the effect of being in a bowl. I was skiing at a constant and slightly
    agressive rate when suddenly I felt very strange -an altered state of 
    conchiousnes- I next remember telling my self "I'm back" (reference .4,
    N. Bowers "having been away"). I have had the same experience during
    the Summer months too. I was canoing on the same lake once again at an
    agressive pace. Once again it hit me "I'm back". Later that same Summer
    I was on a different, but just as large, lake (again the sky was over-
    ast) and the same feeling came over me. I stopped to evaluate
    the situation and discovered many similarities. 1. I was on WATER. 2.
    I was breathing heavy (working out) -AIR. 3. My pulse rate was elevated-
    FIRE. 4. The far shore was wooded and/or rising up from shore and/or a 
    rock island- EARTH. 5. I was "into" my workout -ETHER. My theory is 
    that all these ELEMENTS being present at the same time I entered an 
    altered state. For thoes familiar with the tarot I saw another con-
    nection in that all four suits were represented by  the scene. CUPS-
    the lake, WANDS- the trees, SWORDS- my paddle,ski poles, PENTACLES-
    myself (five pointed star= head hands feet). Any comments?
    observations?
    
                  Mark
    
       

  <<<Posted once more for the mysterious stranger known to us only as
     Descartes!  I will still be happy to forward any mail intended for
    him.
    
    					Topher>>>
    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
re: .23

   Mark,
      Thanks for the input.
      I too have gotten the feeling when walking, biking, canoeing
      and skiing (in addition to other situations such as during a 
      conversation).

      Your descriptions give me the impression of you 'melting' into 
      your surroundings. When you say "I'm back", are you saying
      "I'm back to this altered awareness" or "I'm back to regular
      awareness"? What are your recollections of when you were 'away'?
      Have you tried to get this feeling on purpose? In any different
      surroundings?

      I know nothing about the tarot. I'm not solid on the concept of
      'ether'. Can you exand when you've got the time?

      Thanks,
         Des

    
              Des,
                 The sensation "I'm back" was refering to being back in 
    regular consciousnes from, what I came to call, an altered state of
    consciousness. The most intriguing part of the experience was that I
    had no sence of having been away, just a sence of being back. I've 
    never thought to try to induce this state/feeling.
               Ether, as I understand it -and I may need help in saying
    this correctly-, is similar in concept to spirit. That force that is 
    throughout us all individually and collectively; a seperate plane 
    which is co-exsistent with our physical plane. Yes? No?
               I don't know that the suits of the tarot have (had) anything 
    to do with my experience. It was just a casual observance on my part
    and wondered  if anyone else could make similar observations relative
    to what they experienced.
               
                        Later,
                         Mark
    
    

<< A blast from the past!  The man who is *here* has requested that I post
   a note for him once again.  As usual, I will be glad to forward any
   Email which you wish to send him.

				Topher >>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

  Hi All,

   It's been 3 years since Topher kindly entered my anonymous note(s)
   in this string about a 'Here Now' feeling.

   I'm almost at the point where I can do this on demand!  If anyone has 
   the time, please re-read some of the notes in the string and tell me 
   what the h*ll I'm doing!

  Thanks,
    Des