Conference hydra::dejavu

    I think that it is irrelevant to you whether "it" is "real" or
    "imaginary".  Don't worry about a meaningless distinction.  Whatever
    its nature, it is upsetting you -- *that* is the problem.
    
    Whatever the nature of such manifestations, it is very, very rare
    for any damage to occur *except* that caused by the fear of the
    "living" residents (poltergeist phenomena is different; but even
    then the actual damage is relatively slight, usually it is just
    prankish, this is more in the nature of a haunting).  Nothing you
    have described indicates any sinister intent.  I would suspect that
    your negative feelings are due to a fear of the unknown and an
    interpretation of the manifestation as an unwanted (and thus
    potentially dangerous) intruder.
    
    Actually, the presence belongs there (in whatever sense the presence
    is "there") as much as you do.  He (I assume masculinity on the
    basis of several characteristics you describe) is not an intruder
    in any meaningful sense, any more than you are.
    
    It is, of course, easy for me to say "Come to terms with your fear"
    but it is far from a easy thing to do.  All I can say is to try.
    The next time it happens, examine your feelings.  Ask yourself,
    "OK, he is here, but *why* am I afraid?".
    
    If you are unable to resolve your fear (for whatever reason) you
    can simply ask him to leave.  Whatever these manifestations are
    this works a good number of times.  The next time it occurs after
    you decide that he is to leave, simply say out loud (however, silly
    you feel) something to the effect of "I'm sorry, I don't know what
    you want, but this is my apartment, and you are scaring me.  Please
    leave."  Alternately, you might suggest a compromise -- conditions
    under which he *is* welcome to manifest -- if he "plays by the rules"
    to a reasonable extent than you can assume a reasonable degree of
    non-malevolence and you may feel quite a bit safer.  Believe me,
    this really does work frequently.
    
    Hope this helps.  Let us know how it turns out.
    
    						Topher

    RE: .0
    
    Great.  Just the kind of story I want to read before going to bed.
    :-)
    
    Seems to me something that wanted to scare you wouldn't say "Hi."
    
    John m.

    
    
    Mrs. T,
    
    I really feel very sorry for you - not because of any harm the "entity"
    might bring to you or your house as I certainly agree with Topher
    that is is virtually unheard of for any thing of this sort to cause
    a great degree of trouble - but because it must be absolutely
    PETRIFYING for you.
    
    I can really only say, as Topher does, try to rationalise BEFORE
    the man makes himself known to you - where does he come from, what
    does he want, who is he and is there anything perhaps you can do
    to help him.  I know it might sound silly but from reading your
    note my first impression was that he is lonely and is drawn to you
    because you are a woman.  Has your husband experienced anything
    in connection with this "entity"?  It sounds more as if the man
    is attached to you and perhaps follows you about the house at times
    (protective towards you? attracted to you? you remind him of a loved
    one?)
    
    Obviously you must take care dabbling in things of a psychic nature
    as we all do, but maybe you (with someone with you for support)
    could sit in the room/area of the house you think in which his presence
    is most often felt and ask - out loud - some questions as above
    (i.e., who is he?) and see if you get any response.
    
    You mention the antique bed - any chance of looking up it's history
    who it belonged to, is it a family heirloom of some kind which this
    man may be attached to?  How old is the house and is there anyone
    who could help you with the history of the building and it's families?
    What about the agent (or whoever) you bought it from - any clues
    there I wonder?
    
    I wish you the best of luck in getting peace of mind as it must
    be very worrying for you.  But, please, try not to be afraid - so
    far every indication has been that he does not mean any harm to
    you at all and the incident with the "hi" in your ear and the "balloon"
    do not conjur up any images of someone 'bad' or 'nasty' in any way.
    
    Keep us all informed (are there any DEJAVUERS who live near enough
    to you to keep you company while you are alone some evenings or
    weekends while you are coming to terms with "him")?
    
    Sandy.
    

    re: .0 and former .4
     
        Oops!  I didn't read it carefully enough...and got Linda (whom
    I don't know) confused with Tami (whom I do.)  Sorry about that.  
        Anyway, I don't usually get involved with these events since
    I have no expertise here, although I will stand by saying that there
    is an emotional issue here that is very important to deal with.
    Based on what so many others have reported, Topher's advice is 
    probably worth utilizing.  And I still think that you should be
    optimistic.
    
    Frederick
    

    
    Topher's advice does not seem appropriate in this instance. It's
    like asking a claustrophobic to man an elevator. This person 
    obviously is in great fear and should, in my opinion, opt for 
    a more rational approach like selling the old bed or at least 
    putting it in storage. From her message, I detect this to be the
    cause or it wouldn't have been mentioned. The subconcience often
    "knows and tells" the origin of these events. 

    .1, Topher:
    
    Thanks, but if I KNEW it was imaginary, I think I would feel much
    better about it.  Anyway, I've gotten the same advise from some
    other people I know so it must be good advise.  I don't know if
    I could actually confront this "whatever" - the Catholic church
    is very against anyone messing around with this sort of thing....it
    makes me think there must be a reason for their concern  :-{  
    
    It has often frustrated me because I would like to know more about
    whatever this is...when it happens, but I'm always to scared at
    that time to say or do anything.
    
    When I came home from work yesterday, my husband had the antique
    bed taken apart and in storage.  We're going to see if it makes
    a difference.  
    
    .1 John:
    
    I agree.  I have thought of that before.  If this "whatever" said
    "hi" and not "I'm going to rip your lips off" I really don't feel
    I'm in any immediate danger.....it's just the *not knowing* or even
    *not understanding* that scares me the most I suppose.
    
    .2 Sandy:
    
    I do intend on checking into the history of the bed.  My husbands
    sister got it from a friend who stored it in her garage for a long
    time & then told her to keep it - he didn't have use for it.  I
    believe however, it was purchased at an antique store in San Fran
    where she worked some time ago.  I'll let you all know what I find
    out - if anything.
    
    The apartment building isn't *that* old.  My guess would be 20-25
    years...I'm not sure.  I don't think anyone currently living there
    has been there long enough to have any knowledge of its history.
    
    .4 Frederick:
    
    One more strike and youre out, my dear!  It's Lisa, not Linda! Thanks
    for your support though! (WHO/WHAT is Fred-the-goblin-stuffer?)
    
    Mrs. T.

RE: .6
    
    If you are Catholic you may want to talk to a priest about this
    -- probably *not* your "regular" parish priest.
    
    I certainly am no authority on Catholic theology (not even close)
    but I suspect that while there might be some serious questions about
    the deal making I spoke of, that there would be no problem at all
    with a direct request for the "spirit" to depart, with no further
    interaction.  This really does seem to work a large amount of the
    time in cases such as this.
    
    I wish I could tell you that it is definitely imaginary, but I simply
    don't know that or what its nature is if it is not.  What I do know
    is that manifestations following roughly this pattern rarely or
    never cause direct physical harm, nor is it common for it to lead
    to any noticible spiritual harm (though sometimes it leads people
    to be curious about the occult, leading to experimentation that
    the Catholic church would find questionable).  Psychological harm
    which does occur at times is due to fear of the phenomenon rather
    than the phenomenon itself, or to the social consequences which
    occasionally take place.
    
    So, relax.  Attempt to confront your fear at least (fear of the
    unknown is not the same as a phobia -- direct confrontation and
    rational evaluation is frequently effective and not terribly
    traumatic -- I am not advising you to seek out the fearful stimuli,
    only to deal with it when/if it comes again).  Or if getting rid
    of the bed works, great (but watch out for developing a cumpulsive
    pattern of associating your fear with one object after another and
    avoiding them -- that is the path to agoraphobia).  Anything that
    works for you.
    
    					Topher

Have you tried talking out loud to whoever/whatever it is when you hear the
sounds?  You might ask what he wants and to please leave you alone.  

		Dave

    
    	The Roman Catholic church does not deny that spiritual encounters
    exist.  After all a great majority of its faith is built upon it.
    One common occurance of their admitting to this is their belief
    in the "calling", as so many Catholics claim to have experienced.
    For further clarification, a "calling" is when God asks for service
    from and individual either through speaking to them directly or
    sending a messanger.  
    
    	Catholosism also takes into account the devils calling as well
    as any spirit at unrest.  These are usually refered to as possessions.
    There are two types of sins in the eyes of the church.  There are
    menial sins and mortal sins.  When a person dies and has commited
    a mortal sin, there is no forgiveness in the eyes of the Lord, and
    the persons soul will go to hell.  If the person has commited menial
    sins, the Lord shows mercy at judgement day and will send the soul
    to purgatory to make "right" for the sins he has commited.  If the
    person attains absolution and is sincerely sorry for his sins, then
    the Lord will send his soul to Heaven.  
    
    	The encounter that is related here, can be either a "gaurdian"
    sent to comfort and protect you in your husbands absense, or an
    evil "spirit" sent to beguile and trick you.  The first thing to
    do (from a Catholic point of view) is to call your priest, and invite
    him into your home and ask him to bless it.  Feed him, and
    make him comfortable (as Jesus says we should do with all our brothers
    and sisters of this world).  Also place a BLESSED crucifix on the
    wall above the headboard of your bed, as well as in every other
    room of your house.  If the spirit is sent from the Devil, he will
    leave.  If he does not leave, he is a gaurdian angel sent to guide
    and assist you, or he will state his intentions.  Your faith is
    your guide.  Many times when God appeared to his prophets, they
    were terified also, so do not rule out this one's possible goodness.
    God also does not always send out clear messages.  He will send
    signs which should be interpreted with your heart.
    
    David J.
    
    

    I'm with .7, .8, etc..  Ask it to leave.  If it doesn't leave when
    you ask politely, go on to a formal exorcism -- that is, command
    it to leave in the name of Jesus Christ.
    
    Re .9
    
    I thought that was "venial" rather than "menial."  If Mrs. T's guest
    is a guardian, it seems a remarkably incompetent one.
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    
    Re .10  Your right it is venial.  It has been a while since I studied
    	    theology, which of course is no excuse.
    	    Incompetent?  Just because their dead doesn't make them
            smart. (I stole that line from I don't know where.)
    
    Dave
    

    Re .10 (Earl):
    
    I'd agree.  Ask it to leave, or have it exorcised.
    
    >I thought that was "venial" rather than "menial."  If Mrs. T's guest
    >is a guardian, it seems a remarkably incompetent one.
     
    Anyone who creeps up unseen to your bed and says, Hi!" is hardly
    what I'd call a guardian.  Sounds more like a shy incubus.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    
    	Wait!  I never claimed to state what it was.  I just gave what
    I remember the Catholic church's opinion on the subject to be. 
    After all, it is difficult to try and comprehend how a Catholic
    would view the subject, considering their belief structure is based
    on views that may be (and often are) entirely different from your
    own.  I took a couple of courses in theology (Roman Catholic) and
    thought I could "ADD" something.  Thats all.
    
    David
    
    

    .12  Steve:
    
    Well, SHY or NOT, I looked up Mr. Webster's definition of "incubus"
    and I don't feel any better about this whole situation.
    
    It's been two days since we put the bed in storage and nothing has
    happened so far.  My husband will be gone about a week in October
    and I'm sure (knowing the Navy) at least a few nights between now
    & then - so we'll see...
    
    My husband does remember that the bed is French - so he thinks the
    possibility of finding out anything about it's history is slim.
    
    I must question the concept of it being some type of Guardian -
    From what I've read/heard, if it was a guardian, wouldn't I get
    a more "settled" or possibly "protected/safe" feeling rather than
    an anxious/nervous/scared feeling???
    
    Mrs.T

    re: .-1
    
       Lisa, would you like to get rid of the bed?  I may have a home
    for it (if it's a nice one.)  My girlfriend's older daughter needs
    one and she's half French...and knowing her, any spirit the bed
    might have will have a dickens of a time with her.  :-)
    
    Frederick
    

RE: .14 (Mrs. T)
    
    I'm pretty sure that Steve was joking.  If there is any truth at
    all in the medievil Catholic demonological classifications than
    a "shy incubus" is an oxymoron (a self contradiction in terms,
    like "peaceful war").  Incubii are the personfications of aggressive
    sexuality.  Their "personality" is too direct and unsubtle for
    even a ploy of shyness -- seduction is not their game, rape or
    near-rape is.
    
    Once again -- this is a pretty classic case of a "haunting".  I
    have read many fictional or n'th hand accounts of aggressive and/or
    sexually oriented haunts.  I have *never* encountered a first-hand
    report of a haunt where there was any explicit aggressive (occasionally
    a hint of accusation or mischief) activity or where sexual content
    went beyond a slight flirting like one might encounter at a (tame)
    cocktail party.  (There is phenomena which may be aggressive:
    demonological or poltergeist activity -- but this generally starts
    aggressive or actively mischievious and continues so or grows more
    so).
    
    If you have religious scruples about dealing with non-corporeal
    spirits, that is fine.  I think though, that it is very unlikely
    that you are in the slightest non-spiritual danger.
    
    					Topher

    .15 Freddie:
    
    My husband seems a little too attached to the bed to get rid of
    it just now.....I think we're going to have to prove BEYOND a shadow
    of a doubt that this "whatever" is related to the bed before he
    parts with it....thanks for the offer though - I'll let you know
    if we plan on it in the future.
    
    .16  Topher:
    
    THANKS!  I needed to hear that.  I don't know enough about this
    stuff to know when someone is having fun or is serious.....
    
    STEVE:  From now on, please write (ha ha ha ) after your funnies,
    for the benefit of us "non-spook" oriented people.  :-)
    
    Mrs. T

    Re .14 (Mrs. T):
    
    >Well, SHY or NOT, I looked up Mr. Webster's definition of "incubus"
    >and I don't feel any better about this whole situation.
    
    It it were a classic incubus, it wouldn't be attracted to the bed,
    but to the person.  I thought the tone of my reply would convey
    that; apparently not, for which I apologize.
     
    >I must question the concept of it being some type of Guardian -
                                                
    I, too.  The behavior is not "guardianistic," to coin a phrase.
                     
    Re .17 (Topher):
    
    >I'm pretty sure that Steve was joking.  If there is any truth at
    >all in the medieval Catholic demonological classifications than
    >a "shy incubus" is an oxymoron. ...
    
    Well, nittily, an incubus might be a demonoid, but it was not diabolic.
    These were more on the order of nature spirits and thus closer to
    elementals than to devils (makes sense from the standpoint of being
    archtypes, even as elementals were material archtypes).  Merlin
    the Magician was supposed to have had an incubus as a father (hence
    the tale of Merlin and Vortegin -- Merlin was a child without a
    human father who the usurper king could have slaughtered to quiet
    the earth at the site of his castle) though he was saved because
    his mother had him baptized immediately.  Incubi _could_ be aggressive,
    but didn't have to be.  However, in seriousness, this really does
    not sound like an incubus situation: they wouldn't frighten their
    intendeds, either.
    
    >.............................  I have *never* encountered a first-hand
    >report of a haunt where there was any explicit aggressive (occasionally
    >a hint of accusation or mischief) activity or where sexual content
    >went beyond a slight flirting like one might encounter at a (tame)
    >cocktail party. 
     
    Nor I.
    
    However, it it reappears, asking it to leave, or having it exorcised,
    seems a proper procedure.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    
    

    re 16: Topher
    
    >  (There is phenomena which may be aggressive:
    >  demonological or poltergeist activity -- but this generally starts
    >  aggressive or actively mischievious and continues so or grows more
    >  so).
       
    This kind of applies to the other note I started on protection;
    is there such a thing as demonological activity?  How is it defined?
    Where does it come from? (I guess the devil, right?  ;-) ) 
    
    >  I think though, that it is very unlikely
    >  that you are in the slightest non-spiritual danger.
       
    This is interesting.  Do you think, however, that she might be in
    spiritual danger?  How?  Why or why not?
                             
    Jill
             

    Steve/Topher.....
    
    I read in another note (824) about ghosts following people to new
    homes when they move - have you ever heard of such a thing?  Would
    this be a case of the spirit being "attached" to a particular piece
    of furniture or something?
    
    Lisa T.

My first reaction keeps coming back to me; the first reaction to reading your 
basenote.

I think this is an obnoxious spirit who gets off on your fear of him.  I'd move 
out if I were you.  I don't think it's the bed.  I think it's the house.

Just my psychic vibes; take what you want and leave the rest.

Meredith

    Re .20 (Lisa):
    
    >I read in another note (824) about ghosts following people to new
    >homes when they move - have you ever heard of such a thing?
     
    I've read occasional reports to that effect, but generally, ghosts
    are reported to haunt locations.
    
    Re .20 (Meredith):
    
>I think this is an obnoxious spirit who gets off on your fear of him.  I'd move 
>out if I were you.  I don't think it's the bed.  I think it's the house.
 
    I think I'd attempt to have the spirit move, first.  It _may be_
    the house; if it's a haunting, that's usual (especially if the spirit
    moves some distance from the bed).  However, if the spirit is really
    a ghost, according to theory, it's there because of some trauma,
    and with proper "guidance," it can rest; if it's a nonghost spirit
    (i.e., other type of noncorporeal entity), then proper measures
    can be taken so that it won't bother Lisa further.  A priest is a
    good idea, or a competent occultist.  But why go to the expense
    and bother of changing locations, just so that _someone else_ will
    be stuck with the same problem?
    
    Also, activities seem to have stopped since the bed has been removed.
    Let's see what might happen before doing Drastic Measures.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr. 

    Lisa, this one's for you.
    
    As I reread my entry (.19), I became aware that I may have introduced
    some unpleasant possibilities regarding your situation.  I certainly did
    not intend to do so and hope that my questions for Topher did not cause
    you any additional worries and concerns.
    
    My heart goes out to you and hope that you find peace soon in your
    home.  It must be difficult enough with your husband travelling
    as much as he does.  You certainly don't need to have an unseen
    guest in your house.  
    
    Again, my apologies and may you find your house a warm, safe, and
    healthy place in which to grow and prosper.  My thoughts are with
    you.
    
    Jill
    
    

RE: .19 (Jill)
    
    > is there such a thing as demonological activity?
    
    There is activity which some people interpret as being caused by
    demons -- but I do not.  Some of that activity is clearly caused
    by more or less known physical, psychological or neurological
    phenomena.  In other cases, where it is not clearly so, there isn't
    really any good reason to believe otherwise.
    
    There remain a core set of cases which are very hard to explain
    in terms of known mechanisms.  At least some of these are never
    the less due to such mechanisms operating in a particularly subtle
    or unusual manner.  If we eliminate those we have what we might
    call the Apparently Real Demonological Manifestations (ARDMs -- a
    term which I just made up).
    
    If you take as a matter of faith that there is nothing significant
    to our everyday existence which is outside the domain of current
    scientific theories (as some people who improperly label themselves
    skeptics do) then you believe that all the core cases are ultimately
    explainable and that there are no ARDMs.
    
    Now in parapsychology there is a phenomenon called a poltergeist.
    In a full fledged poltergeist case things fly through the air, or
    fall, things get turned on or off, there are odd, startling noises
    etc.  Most parapsychologists interpret poltergeist phenomena as
    the result of suppressed subconscious hostility making itself known
    by various pranks both produced fraudulently (perhaps in a
    disassociative state -- i.e., the person who did it blocked from
    their consciousness awareness of doing it) as well as through
    PK (psychokinesis the ability to move things with the mind).
    
    Since poltergeist phenomena is a result of subconscious need to
    express hostility combined with a need to disavow the expressions,
    we would expect that in a traditional religious environment that
    it would take the form expected of demonic attack, e.g., with
    blasphemous elements such as bibles being shredded.  This would
    be a way for the subconscious source of the phenomenon to say
    "See, it couldn't be me doing it, it's clearly a demon".
    
    This is what I believe ARDMs are -- I don't personally believe
    in demons.
    
    I cannot truthfully say, however, that I know there are no demons,
    since I don't know what PK really is it would be presumptious to
    say that I can be absolutely sure that demons are not at least
    occasionally involved in ARDMs.  All I can say is that it seems
    unlikely to me, and I don't know of any good reason for me to
    question it.  If you believe in demons, to start with, however,
    e.g., for religious reasons, you may come to another conclusion.
    
    I described the phenomena as demonological *or poltergeist* activity
    because my conclusion -- that the agressive manifestations were
    distinct -- did not depend on my belief that all ARDMs are actually
    the expression of subconscious human hostility.  If you believe
    that some ARDMs really are due to demons, then this is *still*
    not that class of phenomena and thus not likely to turn overtly
    hostile.
    
    Was that clear or did I ramble on to much.
    
    > Do you think, ... that she might be in spiritual danger?
    
    No.  I do not personally believe in damnation of the soul and therefore
    I do not believe that there is such a thing as "spiritual danger".
    But that is a religious belief, and I am only qualified to advise
    with authority on such matters to members of my religion (i.e.,
    only myself).  Others have other beliefs, and it seems clear that
    some believe that association with non-corporeal entities is
    spiritually dangerous -- e.g., can or will lead to damnation.  I
    therefore cannot speak as to the spritual danger or lack of it.
    I can speak with some authority on the non-spiritual dangers: the
    psychological or physical.  And it is my judgement that they are
    minimal in this case as long as the negative effects of fear *or*
    (contrarily) obsession are avoided.  Obsession seemed unlikely in
    this case -- fear was the danger, and one of the points I was trying
    to make was that the fear was groundless.
    
    					Topher

    
    I read your note with mixed feelings and have been thinking about
    it for awhile.  Somehow, I'm inclined to go back to a reply you
    wrote (827.9) and wonder if there isn't some connection.  I know
    it's been a year or so since that situation and I'd like to ask
    if you have had any other experiences that you can relate to over
    this period of time.  I'm also wondering if you've researched and
    worked at meditation or something since the writing and receiving
    of information from the noters.  This is just to look at a 
    progression of events that could have influence over your ability
    to feel/hear this presence.
    
    The only common denominator I see is that your husband is away 
    during these times, but I wonder if there is more.  Often people
    send vibrations to others without knowing it and in ways that would
    frighten the other.  You might keep a record of these happenings
    and try to contact your husband as soon as possible and try to de-
    termine what his frame of mind was at the time and what he was doing.
    This is just another thought that might shed some light and if his
    projection turned out to be the intruder, then maybe working with
    it could bring you close even when he's far away.
    
    If you are really concerned about the presence do go to your parish
    and ask the priest to bless your new home.  This is done all the
    time and without reason other than it being a new home.  I'm sure
    he'll be glad to do it.
    
    Joanne
    
    
    

    Re .24 (Topher):
    
>RE: .19 (Jill)
>    
>    > is there such a thing as demonological activity?
>    
>    There is activity which some people interpret as being caused by
>    demons -- but I do not.
> ...
    >This is what I believe ARDMs are -- I don't personally believe
    >in demons.
     
    The poltergeist mechanism is certainly one potential explanation.
    I, however, suspect very strongly that demons _do_ exist, though
    the only way to "prove" it would be to engage in certain activities
    I have no desire nor intention of performing.
    
    However, the "demonic" question is a near-rathole.  If we posit
    the existence of discarnate entities with the ability to influence
    events in the material world, then these can be of more than one
    type.  
    
    There seems to be no overt _menace_; however whatever it is is
    disturbing Lisa.  A blessing/exorcism is thus in order if "it" will
    not depart upon request.
    
    Anyway, my best wishes to Lisa.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.      

    
    
         Just to add my 2 cents, from my own research, experience, etc.
    communicating with *ghosts* is different than what one would call
    ordinary communication. From what has been described in the base
    note it seems to me that what Lisa has is a typical case of a haun-
    ting. Probably the very best way to react is to shout something
    like "LEAVE ME ALONE, YOU'RE SCARING ME, I DON'T LIKE IT!!!". This
    is guaranteed to work. Direct, emotional confrontation may be the
    only way that we here on the earthplane have of really communicating
    with unseen, earthbound spirits. Most of us do not the capability
    of carrying on a conversation with these spirits because I don't
    think that they can hear us on a "mental" level--only on forceful
    lower emotional levels, as far as I know. In my own personal experience
    this has worked.
         Also, one shouldn't assume that a *haunting* is in any way
    evil in nature unless this evil or some such strong sense of negativity
    can be felt. Most hauntings are probably no more than people who
    have lived and died in a certain place and are, for whatever reason,
    just not yet ready to move on beyond the immediate earthplane. They
    can remain that way for hundreds of years. It is almost as though
    they were existing in some small subset of their earthly experience,
    because they tend to engage in the same petty types of behaviours
    over and over again. Beacuse they are *living* spirits in most cases,
    I think they really should be treated with a great deal of compassion,
    since they may feel that the place is still their home and that
    they have nowhere else to go.
         Using a ouija board or something similar (whatever that might
    be), one could carry on a dialogue with these spirits and understand
    at least what their lives were like, and perhaps more, but that
    may involve crossing into the *danger zone* so to speak. Also I
    do believe that there are malevolent entities, demons or whatever
    that exist but that these cases are pretty rare. So that's really
    all I wanted to say; I might be inaccurate in some areas of my under-
    standing of these types on things, but this is the gist of my insight.
    
    
    Roy

    .25 Joanne:
    
    Interesting thought...my girlfriend asked if I thought there was
    some relation to my experience (from #827) but I didn't think there
    was.  I was only looking at it however, that maybe the same "thing"
    caused that first incident to happen - I didn't think so.  But,
    I don't see why it could not have *somehow* made me more receptive
    to things of this nature.  Nothing has happened (other than the
    current goings-on) since that "electrifying"  (  :-)  ) night. 
    Nothing that I can remember anyway - or that struck me as super
    strange.  As for it being my husband's "projection"....I don't know
    - I just dont think so.
    
    .26  Steve:
    
    A priest blessing our home isn't such a bad idea...I think I'll
    look into it (although the parish we are in now...always seemed
    strange to me & I've been wanting to asked someone there about it)...but
    this church has no Holy Water at any of the entrances or exits.
    Isn't that a little strange? I have been in many churches & have
    never NOT seen Holy Water.  Anyway...what do you think of Joanne's
    thoughts about a connection between the two incidents?
    
    .27  Ray:
    
    Thanks for your input - although I have no desire (curiosity maybe..)
    to get involved with any ouija boards...or the like.  I have already
    tried the "GET OUT YOURE BUGGING ME" thing.  Like I said, nothing
    has happened since we took the bed down...but then again, Jim has
    been home too.
    
    Lisa

re; Steve
    
>    I think I'd attempt to have the spirit move, first.  
>    But why go to the expense
>    and bother of changing locations, just so that _someone else_ will
>    be stuck with the same problem?

good point. I'm not in a headspace where I feel like I could take care of the 
situation.  If such a thing should happen, I'd have to call in the Spirit 
Relief crew.

     I think what also might work is to convince Lisa the "entity" is gone.
     
    It's a shame to have a nice antique like that (the bed, I mean)
    and be unable to use it.
    
    Too bad it only happens when you aloner.  I'm sure there are a lot
    of Dej notersd who'd like to spend the evening with you.  (No comments,
    please.)
    
    Anyway Lisa, good luck.
    
    							Don
    
    P.S.  It is Lisa, right?  I'd hate to wind up on The List. ;-)

    Re .28 (Lisa):
    
    >this church has no Holy Water at any of the entrances or exits.
    >Isn't that a little strange? ...
     
    Not being a Roman Catholic, I can only say it _sounds_ strange,
    but that's all.  I particularly suggested a priest because of your
    faith -- does the priest doing the blessing have to be of the same
    parish?  
    
    >................................. Anyway...what do you think of Joanne's
    >thoughts about a connection between the two incidents?
     
    Possible, though precisely how that would solve the situation 
    is problematical.  First, put out the fire; then look for signs
    of arson. :-)
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    Hi Lisa,
    
    It may be that "whatever" did not want the bed in that room or
    location. If you put the bed back up, try putting it in a different
    location in the room. 
    
    If you have gained some strength from people here, you may be
    communicating it mentally to the entity.
    
    I hope it is gone for good.
    
    Sue

    Hi everyone!
    
    Well, my husband was gone very late one evening (till almost 12:30)
    and everything appears to be fine now that the bed is in storage
    (whether that be the problem or not).  I, needless to say, felt
    uneasy being at home alone, but then I expect that for awhile with
    what happened.  It wasn't the same uncomfortable feeling I *was*
    getting though...this was much different - more normal.
    
    So who's to know....was it a man.....or memorex????? I will post
    again in October when Jim is scheduled to be gone for several days.
    
    Thanks again.
    
    Mrs. T