Conference hydra::dejavu

    RE: .0
    
    I just love a good ghost story.
    
    Er... what did you mean by "before the argument turned violent?"
    
    
    John M.

    You could ask several hundred people for an explanation - and probably
    get several hundred different answers.  Personally, I don't believe
    there is a "canned" answer for any happenings of this sort.  Each
    individual's personal beliefs are apt to determine not only what
    the "perceived" actually happened, but why it happened.  For me,
    personally, I would hang the pictures again and hope I did nothing
    in the future to make my grandmother THAT angry!!!  But I have a
    tendency to offer a healthy respect for anything that cannot be proved
    or disproved by even the most knowledgable people.  No matter what you
    hear from others, you will have to come to your own terms with this
    incident.
     
    
     
    

    This sounds like a question for the HOME_WORK notes file.  I would
    recommend using 16d nails to hang your pictures from now on.  Not
    even Grandma will shake those suckers loose!  {;-)
    
    Stan

    
    	Well, she did say that she'd watch over y'all. And the result
    of the action did have a positive result. (it stopped the argument)
    She even left an indication so you'd know! (she didnt drop *her*
    picture) What else do you need? Say "thank-you" to her...
    	
    	Joe Jas

    Another possible explanation is something on the order of a Poltergeist
    phenomenon.   It could be that someone there has latent telekinetic
    powers, and seeing the mother and father fighting, was distressed
    enough to loosen whatever supports the pictures had (except for
    the grandmother's).  This could be done unconsciously, and the effect
    would have been the same: stopping the fight.
    
    If the Poltergeist_focus recalled the words, or knew of them from
    another family member, the stage would have been set.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    
    Use Crazy Glue.

    Tony:
    
    Paisano, you should always consult with the "genuine Italian's"
    on the Pasta-Net first on matters such as this.
    
    When I was a kid when Pappa and Mamma fought Pop punched holes in
    the wall with his fist that's what knocked the pictures down!
    
    By the way my folks are going to celebrate their 50th Wedding
    Anniversary next month! Fifty years of fighting in two different
    dialects, Sicilian (Mamma) and Napolitano (Pop.)
    
    Chow,
    
    Salvatore

    RE. Poltergiest
    I have heard about this theory and was going to elaborate on it
    a few days ago, but for some reason I coudn't get into this notesfile.
    I have always felt that a person could store inside himself, whether
    consciously or subconsciously, a vast amount of what I'll call
    "energy". I feel that at a certain moment of stress or over emotion,
    this energy can be released with a powerful show of force. Whether
    it's knocking pictures off a wall or making the person or persons
    see or hear unexplained occurrances. Could this explanation be close
    to what a previous reply described as a plotergiest. There were
    only three people in the house at that time, and I have had a few
    weeks of mild depression, and upon walking in on my parents fight,
    maybe it was me subconsciously releasing the energy and emotion
    I had stored up inside me, and wanting this fight to stop I had
    released it to knock all the pictures off the wall, except of course
    my beloved grandmother's. And let me also add that if others are
    going to reply to this note, please show a little respect in reference
    to my grandmother. Some earlier replies made this occurrance seem
    a little comical, and I have said that this did shake me up a bit.
    I await further elaboration.
    
                                                    Yours,
                                                         Tony S.

    My mother always said that when a picture fell off the wall it meant
    that a death would soon follow.  The only reason I know this is
    because when I was a little girl, a picture fell off the wall in
    my parents house.  When I asked my mother why the picture was face
    down on the seat of the sofa (it was hung above the sofa), she became
    *very* upset and ran upstairs crying (what a heavy trip for a 9
    year old!).  My father explained to me that my mother believed that
    if a picture fell off the wall, a death would soon follow.  It seems
    that on that day, my grandmother (my mother's mother) was having
    exploratory surgery.  She died of cancer one week later.
    
    I must admit, however, that your unexplained activity is much more
    likely a "blast from the past", namely your grandmother.
    
    Marion

    
    I'm sorry, Tony, I didn't mean to make light of your grandmother
    at all.
    
    My sincere apologies.
    
    Cindy

    I accept your apology. I wasn't all that upset at anyone really,
    but just thought it wasn't appropriate. But it was nice to see somebody
    offer one. Thanks Cindy.
                                                   Tony S.

    Having been accused of being "so damn logical" from time to time
    I was wondering how you hang pictures.  Picture wire & hooks or 
    those nail-on toothed strips on a push pin.  Is Grandma hung any
    different?  (Hold the jokes, please.)  See, first you have to 
    see how difficult is is to dislodge the frames (any broken glass?)
    from the walls.  At this time I'd say a sonic boom could do it
    if the hanging was precarious.  Since the ahh, discussion seemed
    to be supersonic a minor vibration might have gone unnoticed.
                                                                 
    						Don
    
    P.S.  I don't have the feeling I've been in the Notesfile before...

    Tony you said your grandmother would keep a eye on your family.
    Well, it sounds like she is and was not very pleased with your parents
    fighting. I dont't know what they were fighting about,but, did they
    stop fighting? 
    
    

    There seems to be a number of different possibilities.  As to which
    one is most likely, each of us will have to judge on the basis of
    our beliefs and experience.
    
    1 -- HALLUCINATION.  It never happened, Tony just thinks it did.
    	(I think this is very unlikely, but it is possible so I include
    	it).
    
    2 -- HOAX.  It never happened, for whatever reason Tony has made
    	up the story and reported it.  (Same comment as 1).
    
    3 -- FRAUD.  Some human agent, for whatever reason, set it up
    	in advance for this to happen, either triggered by conditions
    	or explicitly (Same comment once again).
    
    4 -- COINCIDENCE.  Various things might make all the pictures fall
    	off the wall at once, and various things might prevent the one
    	picture from falling off.  That this happened at such an
    	"appropriate" time is coincidence (where I include physical
    	triggers from the events taking place -- e.g., someone pounding
    	on the table -- as part of the coincidence but making it more
    	likely to occur).  There are enough possible highly unlikely
    	coincidences that *some* highly unlikely conincidences are
    	bound to occur.
    
    5 -- GRANDMA'S GHOST.  Discussed by others.
    
    6 -- ANOTHER SPIRIT.  Good (it does seem to be directed at stopping
    	some destructive behavior), neutral (motivation might be mischief
     	or the fight may have been getting on its immaterial "nerves";
    	this is the traditional interpretation of poltergeist (= "noisy
    	ghost") activity) or evil (no evidence of evil intent here, but
    	can't eliminate the possibility).
    
    7 -- SPONTANEOUS SUBCONSCIOUS PK.  (PK = PsychoKinesis, movement
    	of physical objects directly with the mind).  This is the most
    	common explanation for poltergeist activity (after fraud or
    	other natural causes has been excluded) by modern
    	parapsychologists.  Whether this should be called a poltergeist
    	is unclear, since the term is usually applied to situations
    	where this kind of thing happens repeatedly.  A technical
    	term for poltergeists used by some investigators is Repeated
    	Spontaneous PsychoKinesis (RSPK).  The words are not very
    	important here though.  It is widely believed that an important
    	element in at least some poltergeist phenomena is suppressed
    	unexpressed anger on the part of the agent (aka focus, the
    	person believed to be subconsciously causing the phenomena).
    
    	Why would Grandma's picture stay on the wall then?  Basically
    	for psychological reasons.  I can think of the following
    	alternatives: 1) The agent subconsciously judged that the message
    	would be more effective if it seemed that Grandma was behind
    	it. 2) Some parapsychologists believe that it is easier to
    	produce psi phenomena (including PK) if there is a "displacement
    	of responsibility," i.e., if the person doing it can attribute
    	it to someone or something else.  The obvious "clue" that this
    	was Grandma doing this would make it easier for the agent to
    	deny to him/herself responsibility for what took place. 3) Jung
    	believed that paranormal phenomena are always mediated by
    	a psycholgical architype: "Mother", "Mother-in-Law", "Grandmother",
    	and, more generally, "Matriarch" would all qualify.
    
    8 -- CONSCIOUS PK.  Seems unlikely but someone involved may consciously
    	but secretly have very well developed PK abilities, and may
    	have made use of them to stop the argument, shock, etc.  In
    	this case the first two reasons for Grandma's picture remaining
    	on the wall are clearly applicable (though consciously applied)
    	as, more speculatively, would the third.  (This seems as unlikely
    	to me as the first few, but once again it is possible).
    
    That's what occurs to me -- anyone have any additional alternatives?
    
    					Topher

    9 -- ACOUSTIC COUPLING.  The shouting was loud enough to induce
    	vibration in the wall or the picture-glass of sufficient 
    	amplitude to cause the picture to loose from it's moorings.
    
    	(put your hand (gently!) on a wall while someone is having a
    	truly heated argument and you'll feel what I mean.)
    	
    -Bill
    

    re: .15   Good theory, Bill!
                               
    						Don