Conference hydra::dejavu

    On a Friday the 13th, my SO at the time suffered a stroke from which
    she died.
              
    	- Bill
                         

    Re .-1  (Bill)
    
    You have my sympathy.
    
    Gee, upon leaving my house this morning, a black cat crossed my
    path before I got in my car.
    
    So far, nothing unusual has happened...
    
    Elizabeth
    

    Re .1 (Bill):
    
    You have mine, too.
    
    Re .2 (Elizabeth):
    
    >Gee, upon leaving my house this morning, a black cat crossed my
    >path before I got in my car.
      
    A black cat crosses my path _every_ morning, since one of our cats, Merlin,
    is black.  No black cat crossing my path under about 140 pounds
    (weight of panthers) tends to bother me ... :-)
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    13 has always been a bad number for me.  All of the worst things
    that have ever happened to me have somehow had that number attached.
    
    As for today, nothing bad has..
                                   .
                                    .
                                    .
                                  *thud*
    
    
    John M.
    

    John, John, ..... are you ok?  Wake up!!!   I have thirteen letters
    here for you from the IRS.

    
    Does any one happen to know why thirteen is unlucky?
     
    Personally, I never cared for the number three.

    Re. Steve and his Black cat. Just curious 'bout something. Do you
    have a bLack dog also?
    
    
    Brien Roscetti   < --- ack thirteen letters !!!

    

    Re .6 (Brien):
          
    >Re. Steve and his Black cat. Just curious 'bout something. Do you
    >have a bLack dog also? 
    
    No, I have two cats, Merlin (a 17-lb black stubtail Manx) and Karamaneh
    (an 8-lb sealpoint Siamese); Karamaneh, though the smaller of the
    two, bullies Merlin unmercifully; he lets her get away with it.
    
    No dogs.
    
    Steve Kallis,  Jr.
    

    
    
    thanks.. I was curious bacause I have a black cat (Shadow), a ferret
     ( didn't I see your name in Ferrets?), an atari ( didn't I see your
     name in ST or was it Amiga) , and a black dog . The dog would have
     been  too much :>)
    
    brien
    

    Ref: Number 13 being an unlucky number.
    
    My grandmother told me that 13 became an unlucky because there were
    13 attendees at the "Last Supper", the twelve apostles and Jesus.
    
    She believes this so sincerely, that one time we were having a dinner
    party and someone's wife could not come.  When my grandmother got
    there and saw that there were 13 people sitting at the table, she
    left!
    
    She also told me:
    
    Never open an umbrella in the house
    Never cut a baby's fingernails before he/she is baptised
    Never let a baby look in the mirror
    Never leave your Christmas decorations up after midnight on New
    Years Eve.
    
    Only a few!
    
    

    You forgot the one about birds in the house.
    

.10  You mean like; never keep birds in the house???

I have a room full of birds. oh no %')

    Thats ok Jay...  just don't cut their fingernails in front of a
    mirror before they are baptized.
    Mary

    I think that if you believe Friday the 13th is unlucky, then it
    will be!!  I always have the BEST days of my life on Friday the
    13ths and today was no exception!  Everyone around me was crabby
    and snippy and it's now 5:40 p.m. on a wonderful Friday evening
    and I'm in a great mood!  So there, all you superstitious dudes!
    
    				*8-)  Carla
    

    Well, FWIW, this has been a good day for me (I am only superstitious
    about the number 13, not about Friday the 13th).  As a matter of
    fact, the reservations agent just called me to tell me that I can
    fly to LA and back for $150.00 less than expected, and that the
    airlines owe me a $20.00 refund from a previous flight!
    
    
    John M.

    Here in sunny Colorado Friday the 13th wasn't so bad.   The
    transformers which supply power to all of CXO overheated and
    we lost power at 3 PM.  (too bad, had to leave early...)
    Dem's da breaks!
    
    

    i do not fear friday the thirteenth
    but i sure hate sat. the 14th
    My mom told me , "Never throw spilled salt over your shoulder if
    someone much larger is standing behind you with an open wound :)"

    RE .6
    
    IT IS THOUGHT THAT THE NUMBER 13 IS INDEED LUCKY.  THE SHAMAN OF
    OLD BELIEVED IT TO HAVE SPECIAL POWER.  ATTEMPTING TO KEEP IT FOR
    THEMSELVES PROMOTED THE FEELING OF FEAR SO THAT OTHERS WOULD NOT
    USE IT.  
    
    MURRAY
    

    RE .9
    
    LUCK IS MATTER OF HOW YOU SEE IT....
    THE "LAST SUPPER"   
    
    FOUR GROUPS OF THREE REPRESENTING THE FOUR WINDS, FORCES, OR
    ELEMENTS...
    
    THREE REPRESENTING THE TRINITY..FATHER, SON, HOLY SPIRIT....MIND,
    IDEA, CONSCIOUSNESS...
    
    AND FINIALLY A HEAD...FOCAL POINT...OR THE INSTRUCTOR...THE DIRECTOR
    OF THE COMPLETE GROUP..
    
    MURRAY
    
    
    
    

    I understand that the number 13 was sacred to the Triple Goddess
    of ancient beliefs.  She was a lunar goddess, related to the moon,
    and there are 13 lunations in a solar year.
    
    So I don't wonder that, in efforts to suppress Her worship, that
    a number sacred to Her was branded with a bad rep.
    
    BTW, I had a lovely Friday the 13th, too, which finished up with
    dinner out with my husband.  And no, I was not sick afterward...;-)
    
    Marcia

    I've always liked Friday the 13ths.  The best horror movies (ok,
    or not so best) are on TV, Friday is the beginning of the week-end,
    and people are usually feeling negative, so I grab all the positivity
    I can.
    
    I did hear quite a while back that thirteen was also the number
    of witches in a coven, which is why many people believed that the
    number thirteen was unlucky.
                            
    This Friday was great for me, but VERY unlucky for other people
    around me that I either work with or are acquainted with.

    I have noticed that often unlucky things happen to people on Friday
    the 13th.  I think that people _do_ make a bigger deal of it when
    these unlucky things fall on this date, but a bigger part of it
    is that they expect negative things to happen, so they do.  I by
    nature am a bit contrary, so I have selected Friday the 13th as
    my lucky day.  I figure that *somebody* should scoop up all that extra
    good luck that isn't being used by anybody else on that day.  ;^)
                                           
    Marion

    	Don't forget APOLLO 13...
    
    	:^)
    

    Basically superstition. Thirteen is considered a very powerful and
    very positive number, indeed, amongst certain organizations.
    
    Rumor has it that a great civilization once known as Lemuria sank
    in the Pacific on a Friday the 13th.
    
    Perhaps the mass consciousness has a remembrance of such a disaster.

My mother was very superstituous about 13 at a dinner table.  She claims
that when she was a child her parents had a party with 13 at it, her
father proposed a toast and within a week he had died.

Her belief is that the person seen as being the 'head' of the party
dies within the week.  This kind of ties in with the idea of it being
related to the Last Supper, Jesus is head of the party, and is dead
within a few days.

She has been known to invite people at the very last minute because
someone else has cancelled and she refuses to have a party of 13.

    Re .24 (Josh):
    
    >Rumor has it that a great civilization once known as Lemuria sank
    >in the Pacific on a Friday the 13th.
     
    Without trying to be too much of a party-pooper, if there _was_
    a Lemuria (which is questionable, but not impossible), it would
    have sunk in early protohistory (e.g., on/about the time of First 
    Dynasty Egypt or before).  At that time, there was _no_ Friday, since
    the current days of the week are of historically recent invention,
    named after two astronomical bodies, and Roman and Norse/Teutonic
    gods.  The Khemite b(Ancient Egyptian) week, for instance, was ten
    days long.
    
    Therefore, "Friday the 13th" would have been meaningless to a
    hypothetical Lemurian.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    
    Last Friday, I flew to Phoenix, Arizona.  It was a comedy of errors
    - starting with United Airlines (you know, 'fly the friendly skies')
    assigning seats to multiple people.  My seat was changed 3 times
    and I was not real pleased about it.  The flight attendant offered
    me a free glass of wine later on for my troubles.....but I can't
    drink alcohol anymore either....*groan*.
    
    Then I get to the Avis counter, read quickly through the car rental
    contract (exhausted by this time and unfortunately didn't read the
    fine print) and drove away.  Checking the car back in 4 days later,
    the bill came to $250.00 - much to my amazement and shock.  She
    then explained that the person who wrote up the contract had 'noted'
    that I worked for Digital but neglected to put the discount rate
    on the contract (which I had specifally asked her if she needed
    and she replied 'no').  The person who finally took care at the end 
    made sure to tell me what a *BIG FAVOR* she was doing for me by 
    changing the original conditions of the contract that I had signed, 
    since a manager wouldn't have been so kind.  I thanked her politely, 
    smiled through my gritted teeth and left quickly.  
    
    For anyone out there who rents from Avis - BE SURE TO DOUBLECHECK
    EVERYTHING - as I found out later they are notorious for this.
    Managed to get the bill down to $120.00 (which was still higher
    than my travel agent had quoted me because to get the super weekend
    rate I had to take the car back on Monday and check it out again
    in order to get the $18.00 weekend rate which didn't have unlimited
    mileage either).
    
    All this aside - it could have been MUCH worse, so I'm still thanking
    the 'powers that be' for all that didn't happen - optimist that I am.  
    
    Cindy
                                                       

    According to _A Dictionary of Superstitions_ by Sophie Lasne and
    Andr� Pascal Gaultier (translated by Amy Reynolds, published by
    Prentice-Hall):
    
    The number 13 is unlucky because it is one *more* than the number
    12 which is the number of completion.  Of course, this is reinforced
    within the Christian tradition by the last supper symbolism.
    
    Rest is my speculation --
    
    Although modern covens frequently accept the size of 13 as "proper"
    it is not clear that this number was not originally invented by
    Christian witch-hunters to associate witches with the Devil and
    betrayal.
    
    The number 12 is the number of completion, by the way, in the
    Babylonian tradition.  The Babylonian number system used an alternating
    12-60 radix (as, for example, the Roman system used alternating
    5-10 radix).  That is, the Babylonians counted to 12 as we count
    to 10, then counted 5 twelves as we would count 10-10s. etc.  It
    is from this source that we measure time, angles and the zodiac in 12's
    and 60's.  The Judeo-Christian tradition derives heavily from the
    source.
    
    In Hellinistic (e.g., Pythagorian) numerology, which we are more
    explicitly familiar with, 10 is the number of completion (the ancient
    Greek system of numeration was essentially a non-positional radix
    10 system).
    
    Friday --
    
    The Dictionary of Superstitions lists a number of connotations and
    associations, most of them negative, but does not really explain
    *why* there are these bad associations.
    
    I would speculate a number of convergent sources of the negative
    association:
    
    	1) In both Babylonian and Roman traditions Friday is ruled by
    	   Venus who is, of course, the Mother Goddess.  The antipathy
    	   of early Christianity to the Mother Goddess, despite its
    	   partial absorption in the Cult of Mary, is well known.  The
    	   planet Venus is also associated with the pagan educator of
    	   humanity Lucifer, who is associated in Christianity with
    	   Satan.  There is also a sensuality association with Venus/Friday
    	   which is further negative from an early Christian viewpoint.
    
    	2) From the viewpoint of a time-system that starts the day at
    	   midnight.  The Jewish Sabbath starts on Friday night.  The
    	   antipathy of the early Church to Judiasm was even more intense
    	   than to the Mother Goddess, since the Church wanted to destroy
    	   the image (which earlier it had accepted) that it was a Jewish
    	   sect (at one point, you had to first convert to Judaism before
    	   you were allowed to convert to Christianity.  It is from
    	   this deliberate dissassociation with Judiasm that the practice
    	   of celebrating the Sabbath -- representing the final day
           of rest -- is done on the *first* day of the week).  The
    	   Dictionary of Superstitions does mention that "During the
    	   night beteen Friday and Saturday, devils and witches meet
    	   at the Sabbath."  In the entry on Saturday this is explicitly
    	   associated with the Jewish Sabbath.
    
    	3) And of course, Friday was the day of the Crucifixion.
    
    						Topher

    Reply to .28, Topher,
    
    We must not forget that Jesus should also be added in the number
    of the circle. And beyond this Mary Magdelene, wives and servants
    were not included in the numbering of the following.
    

RE: .29
    
    Sorry, I wasn't clear.  I didn't mean that the last supper reinforced
    the 12-as-completion part, but the 13-as-unlucky part.  Of course,
    if we want to be technical, since the last supper was the Passover
    feast, there were 14 places set (one for the prophet Elijah).  I
    suppose that Jesus had a complete circle of followers when he had
    12 might relate to the duodecimal symbolism, though -- interesting
    thought.
    
    					Topher

    Elijah huh? Didn't know that. Thanx.

    
    re .-1
    
    Elijah will return to announce the coming of the Messiah. Part of
    the traditional seder (Passover supper) involves opening a door
    of the house and inviting the prophet to come in.
    
    T
    

RE: .31,.32
    
    Traditionally a place was always set at the table for Elijah (who
    will appear as a stranger seeking shelter, so the place is "really"
    representative that all, even strangers, are welcome at the seder
    to be treated as part of the family).  Some still practice the
    full setting, but it is quite common to simply have a cup of wine
    ready for Elijah.  The tradition that all are welcome at the seder
    is still very strong, even if an extra place is not set out -- of
    course, it is expected that plans be made in advance with your host
    if at all possible. 
    
    					Topher

    My .02  
    
    I was born on Friday the 13th -- So it's very, very, VERY, lucky !!!!!!
    
    oh yeah..................Beccy