Conference hydra::dejavu

    re .0
    
    what are you looking for?  Meditating is just ONE method of
    "focussing" on the center of being.  It is a constant source
    of amazement for me to see the wide range of interpretations
    of "self-awareness" and how each soul reaches/attains that 
    awareness.
    
    I don't think it is a constant, either.  There are times when
    I am firmly in touch with self and other times...well, I have
    a hard time understanding who I am...
    
    Perhaps this has something to do with the saying by the ancient
    Greek philosopher (does anyone remember which one?) about the
    flowing water in the river always changing and that the river is
    never the same when you step in...
    
    --Eve
    

    Re .2:
    
    >Perhaps this has something to do with the saying by the ancient
    >Greek philosopher (does anyone remember which one?) about the
    >flowing water in the river always changing and that the river is
    >the same when you step in...
     
    
    Epictitus.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr
    [not an ancient philosopher]

    Reply to .0; Moreau,
    
    I don't think meditation is the first step. Perhaps the first step
    is driving home the realization that we are all good people, all
    of us. Meditation can play a part in the driving home of that message 
    to the deep self.
    
    There is much work to be done by Americans. Most of us have been
    taught since childhood that we are sinful and deserve to die. In
    a childs mind that gets translated into self-hate because we can't
    please a parent or a God. Early programming is hard to erase.
    
    We simply have to overcome this negative religious programming and
    accept the fact that we all deserve all the love that we can give
    ourselves. Once our personal wells are purified we can love others
    with the same pure love we shed upon oursleves.
    
    The first step is in evaluating ourselves as to whether we love
    ourselves first and why or why not.

         re: .0
         
         I don't consider myself a religious person in the sense that, 
         except for Christmas, I do not go to church, nor do I feel 
         comfortable at most types of religious functions.  I do, 
         however, believe in God.  When I use the word spiritual, it 
         has to do with my higher self, my God realization.  This is 
         something that is entirely PERSONAL.  My relationship with 
         God and with myself is for me and only me.  I am an 
         individual, and I don't believe that anyone else (i.e., 
         religious people/organizations) can dictate to me what I 
         should feel and what I should do to achieve oneness with God?  
         That is *MY* choice, as is everything in my life.  In the 
         same sense, I have never meant to imply that anyone should do 
         what I am doing in order to achieve what I achieve.
         
         I have never been closer to my*self* than when I meditate, 
         but as was pointed out in earlier notes there are many other 
         alternatives to achieving higher levels of consciousness.  
         You are an individual, and this is an individual choice for 
         you to make because only you know what's best for your*self*.
         
         I wish you peace, and I hope that you find what you're 
         looking for.
         
         Carla
         

    I've been going into trance for quite a long time now.  I don't
    know if it qualifies as "meditation" or not but it is a very
    interesting experience.

    re: .5
         Mary, I am not qualified to say with any definitive authority,
    however, what you describe sounds to me as one of the many available
    forms of meditation.  There are meditations wherein one can search
    for the pause between the breath (ham-sah, as described by Muktananda)
    or the space between thoughts (as described by Ram Dass--based on
    more Eastern philosophies) or there can be meditations wherein one
    can concentrate/focus on parts of oneself in order to "calm" them
    or there can be guided meditations (internal or externally led)
    that can accomplish the same thing, etc.  As .1 (I think it was)
    pointed out, it depends on the purpose and what one is trying to
    achieve.  In 358.76 I give some views (with a bias influenced by
    Lazaris.)
     
    re: .3
        I agree with you...it's not only religious programming, however,
    (although maybe originally it was due to "God wars.")  It is also
    governmental influences (based on economics, etc.,) or societal
    pressures or academic posturings, and on and on (as Steven Bishop
    once said.)
      
    re: .0
        I, too, reacted somewhat strongly a few years ago to the word
    "spiritual."  I still react strongly to words such as "lord" and
    a few others.  I think it is important, however, to make an effort
    to understand what the context is (something I don't always do.)
    I really, really like what Lazaris has done with this area.
    Originally, most of us went to develop ourselves (and, of course,
    we still do.)  Later, though, Lazaris pointed out to us that we
    are all on a quest to establish a living, breathing, loving 
    relationship with God/Goddess/All-That-Is.  All of us have
    a relationship here (even those who deny it, according to him.)
    He called this quest our "spirituality."  As he has carefully
    pointed out many times, this has absolutely nothing to do with
    religion.  Many religious people are very unspiritual people,
    according to Lazaris (and I would agree, based on his definitions.)
    So, anyway, don't despair at the use of the word too much...if 
    it really bothers you, then just attempt to understand the context
    or at least understand the source for their use of the word.
      
    Frederick
    

    
    	My meditation is simply to accept the reality of my own
    thoughts, kind of mentally "letting go."   I find that really 
    negative thoughts only seem to arise when I try to control or 
    repress my thought process, but when I just let thoughts move freely,
    more interesting and surprising things happen.

        I find that the more I can mentally relax about what it is
    OK to think about, the more creative and energized I feel.   This
    practice has made it impossible for me to ever again subscribe
    to any set dogmatic religious formulas, and has helped me to
    learn to pray in a way that is more connected to the living God.
    
	I think people have a great need to develop their own spiritual
    resources, and this requires some form of meditation or inner
    exploration.   Some forms of meditation seem more concentration
    oriented, while others are more relaxation oriented.   Each person
    is different, so I suspect different methods would be appropriate
    for different persons.   The important thing is for each person
    to explore and find their own path.   In the Gnostic Christian
    tradition, and Native American traditions, each person must go
    on their own vision quest, as a part of becoming who they really
    are.
    
    	When I started my own quest I was an agnostic-skeptic, but in
    more recent years as I have more experiences "under my belt",
    I find myself able to accept the reality of many spiritual teachings.
    (Although a lot of stuff still appears worthless...)   I have never
    accepted ideas that I do not understand, and even now only fully
    accept what I can integrate.   I would like to say, in encouraging
    those skeptics out there, that it is possible to progress in
    spiritual learning without abandoning your basic need for proofs.
    But it is possible that the most telling proofs you might recieve
    will be for yourself alone, in your own mental theater, and may
    not be useful for convincing others in traditional scientific
    discourse.

    	The search for centeredness and self-integration is, in my
    opinion, the most important quest anyone can embark upon.   This
    is the type of treasure you can take with you...
    
    	Alan.

I agree with the previous replies.

Carla's reply (.3) is the one I most identify with.

The only thing I'd like to add is that if YOU are sincere in your 
quest the method/technology/technique/readings/teacher/teaching will 
be made available to you.

While Spiritual Unfoldment is a life quest and it is easy to get 
serious about, one of the other things I try and use is humor.

Life on this earth can perhaps be reduced to one of two things:
learning and fun.  It is nice when the learning is also fun.

One other thought.  Detachment is a useful tool in one's daily life.  
If I remain detached in whatever situation I am in, I am more likely 
to have a "birds eye view" rather than a view that might be clouded
by my own emotions or opinions.  I'll be better able to make my best
choice.

- Howard