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Conference hydra::dejavu

Title:	Psychic Phenomena
Notice:	Please read note 1.0-1.* before writing
Moderator:	JARETH::PAINTER

Created:	Wed Jan 22 1986
Last Modified:	Tue May 27 1997
Last Successful Update:	Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:	2143
Total number of notes:	41773

400.0. "Is self an illusion ?" by SSDEVO::ACKLEY (No final answers here) Tue Jul 07 1987 16:18

	In reference to some suggestions raised in the "Invisible Enemies"
    topic, there seem to be some interesting beliefs on the subject of ego.   

    Perhaps we could start a discussion on the nature of the ego;

	1) Some teachers (like Bubba Free John) teach that the separate
	   sense of individuality is an illusion.   Once this illusion is
	   transcended, the person attains a form of universal
	   consciousness.    As far as I am able to understand this model,
	   there is only one real mind in the entire universe, that being
	   God's mind.

	2) My own working definition of ego is as follows:   The ego is
	   the picture a person has of their own personality.   Since
	   no one ever sees themselves accurately, the ego is a distorted
	   picture of the self.  Beneath the images of self is the real
	   Self, which cannot be grasped directly.

    The difference between these two models is in what reality lies beneath
    the existence of the ego.   Both models point out the inaccuracy caused
    by depending on the ego, and regard the ego as a basically false picture
    of the Self.    
	The difference is that model one, assumes that no separate self 
    exists at all, the separate self is held to be an illusion created by 
    the existence of the ego.    This model assumes that it is possible to
    attain a state of consciousness entirely without ego.   In this model
    enlightenment occurs when the ego is gone.  It is necessary to destroy
    or remove the ego to attain enlightenment within this model.
	Model two allows for the possible existence of a separate Self,
    separate both from the "universal mind" and from the ego consciousness.
    If the ego is just an image in the mind, the act of transcending the ego
    would be one of disidentifying one's Self from the image.   Destroying
    of killing the ego, is an unnecessary act in this model since the ego
    is just a picture in the mind.   Enlightenment in this model would be
    the attainment of a state of consciousness where "the map is not the
    territory".

	These are really radically different concepts, although they
    have overlapping aspects.   How about it?   Are there really separate
    selves, or is the sense of self just an illusion?

	Just to make my own bias clear, I have considered both models,
    and these days I am more in sympathy with model 2, although I admit
    that I know of no way to conclusively prove model 1 false.

Alan.

T.R	Title	User	Personal Name	Date	Lines
400.1		AKOV76::FRETTS	Shine your Spirit!	`Tue Jul 07 1987 17:14`	51
	The following is a model which I have been taught that defines the planes on which we exist. (Of course, this is from only one school of thought - there are many.) I've entered it in a previous note (8.14, I believe), but in the context of this note, I feel that it portrays the purpose of the Ego and the personality in some ways. What has been discussed in this and other notes as "ego", this model refers to as "personality". What is termed the "Higher Self" is referred to as the "Ego". The "personality" is not a "bad" thing that must be done away with - it is a learning tool and an experiential process - it has a purpose. If, in fact, this model is correct, who set it up like this? I would think we as co-creators had a hand in it. Each of the following are planes of existence - we exist on each in "bodies" of matter, becoming more refined as you go "up" the ladder. Divine (God) Monad (Christ) Atma (Spiritual - Buddha) Causal (Higher Self - Ego) Mental \ Astral \ The Personality Physical (+ Etheric) / / We incarnate into the physical world by means of the Ego extending itself into the more dense planes of existence. To me, the astrological birth chart is the blueprint of the Personality that is set up for the purpose of growth and experience. If a person is gifted enough to see it, the purpose of the soul's currrent incarnation can be seen in the chart. As long as we need to incarnate into the physical world, we go back and forth between the lower four planes, creating a new "blueprint" for our process of becoming whole. So, we as sparks of the Divine, create it all - with God as the source. We will all learn from our processes in our own time and in our own way. There are choices in every- thing, and we can choose to express through our personalities in a positive or negative way. It may take a lot more work for some than for others to come to understand their divine nature - in time we all will. Carole
400.2	What is not an illusion?	NOISE::SHUMAKER		`Wed Jul 08 1987 15:23`	57
400.3	Reservoir residents?	SHRFAC::ADAMSM		`Thu Sep 15 1988 17:03`	28
	I have two tales to tell: My brother and I were chatting one night and he shared a story of an experience he kept to himself for nearly 15 years. Hal, as I'll call him, was returning home from a bowling night at about 11:00 travelling south on rte 140 in Boylston Ma. The next thing he remembered was waking up in the woods about fifty feet from his truck which was now facing north on the road, still running. And yes, a state trooper was parked by his truck. He took the standard drunk tests, passed and went home. The next morning he noticed 3 red dots on each forearm that faded by the next day. Hal thinks he was "examined" and I can't offer any other theory myself. The second tale is relative in that it occured in the same area. I was fishing about 3 years ago at the Wachusett Res. (along which Rte, 140 runs) and it was nearly dark. I noticed on the horizon what looked to be a plane's blinking light. But thge strange thing was that it kept darting back and forth over this hill. I'd see it for a couple of seconds, it would disappear for maybe 3 seconds and then reappear, each time in a different location. I've since talked with other residents and fisherpersons who've recounted an amazing number of sightings in this area. One gent said in an almost sypathetic voice "Oh you didn't know about that.. story goes there's a landing station out there somewhere" Anyone else who's familiar with these stories, I love to hear from you. -Mark
400.4		SCOMAN::RUDMAN	Amateur Hour goes on and on...	`Thu Sep 15 1988 17:31`	4
	Guess you should hussle him off to the hypnotist. Might be fascinating. Don
400.5	Warp 10	USAT05::KASPER	You'll see it when you believe it.	`Fri Sep 16 1988 15:31`	11
	A similar story... While stationed at Homestead AFB in south Florida I heard tales from F4 Phantom pilots about strange happenings over the Caribbean waters. Some would tell (and said it was hush-hush stuff) that they would be flying into zero-visibility weather when their instruments would go flakey. When they came out into the clear, they would be located over a place that by flying normal F4 speeds would be impossible to reach in the time that had passed. No explanation and mostly second hand info, but interesting. Terry
400.6	But it's a nice illusion!	CYCLPS::BAHN	The 1st 2000 lifetimes are toughest!	`Sun Sep 18 1988 23:30`	4
	To answer the topic question ... Of course! Terry
400.7	All wet at 7 feet above sea level.	SCOMAN::RUDMAN	Amateur Hour goes on and on...	`Mon Sep 19 1988 13:39`	7
	re: .5 Anything said about the instant relocation being spotted by radar? (If the radar "coverage" is still as poor as it was in '69 I'm sure there wasn't.) Don
400.8	Dont' know	USAT05::KASPER	You'll see it when you believe it.	`Mon Sep 19 1988 14:08`	7
	re: .7 Not that I'm aware of, but one would think that it should have indicated something unless the disturbances in the air corrupted the radar as well as the avionics. Terry
400.9	Sorry to burst your bubble...	CTHULU::YERAZUNIS	Pushing back the limits of common sense	`Mon Sep 19 1988 15:41`	15
	Re: lights bobbing around Wachusett reservoir & mountain, just after dusk: Stirling Airport is just south of there, and Wachusett reservoir and mountain are commonly used as landmarks for helicopter nighttime flying training (required for the pilot's license). (I'm doing it- it's a blast flying around Mt. Wachusett!) And NO, I'm not learning to fly "saucer", nor do I have orange eyes on long stalks, nor tentacles. :-) -Ripsssl Hlddggaggg!, er, I mean, have a nice day! :-) Bill
400.10	Where theres smoke...	MANTIS::PARE	What a long, strange trip its been	`Wed Sep 21 1988 11:00`	6
	Regarding the Mt Wachusett sightings. Interestingly enough, MUFON (Mutual UFO Network) has had many reports from that area, both sightings and abductions... some of them (quite recent) are under investigation right now. Be careful up there Bill_:-) Mary