Conference hydra::dejavu

Unfortunately I missed the show.  However --

Ever since Uri Geller began to use various tricks to demonstrate so-called
paranormal metal-bending (the Geller Effect), it has been a favorite of
con artists, both amateur and professional.

In case anyone has any doubts: Uri Geller was, without any question, a
fraud.  There remains a reasonable doubt as to whether Geller might have
occasionally demonstrated real psi ability, but given his proven penchant
for fraud and secrecy, no reliance can be placed on anything he has done.

I have yet to hear about a demonstration of paranormal metal-bending done
under conditions which truly exclude fraud or self-deception.  This doesn't
mean it doesn't occur, but it does mean that we cannot know whether or
not it occurs.

This is, of course, limited by my personal knowledge, including published
accounts.  I welcome any descriptions from people's personal experience
which might supply the evidence which I currently lack.

I have heard many "explanations" for the effect.  As near as I can tell
they all either extrapolate from much too little data (even accepting the
demonstrations as legitimate), are complete double-talk, or most commonly,
both.

Sorry too put a damper on this.  As people who read this notesfile know
I believe that paranormal phenomena have been scientifically demonstrated.
I don't think that this particular one has been.

				Topher

    re .1:
    
    Every account I've read where Uri Geller has been tested under rigid
    conditions, he's been unable to duplicate his feats.
    
    Indeed, I generally use Uri Geller's works as a primitive litmus
    test when I'm checking texts: if a report of Geller in a book accepts
    what he does _unhesitatingly_, and without even a mention of doubt,
    I usually conclude that the author is extremely credible.  If a
    book mentions Geller and says something on the order of, "Although
    Geller's metal bending seems to be a paranormal talent, professional
    stage magicians [or whoever] indicate they can duplicate his feats
    without any normal paranormal ability," I believe the author(s)
    show(s) sufficient balance so that the book can be used without
    reservations on that account [of course, there could be others :-)].
    
    A number of stage-magician catalogues are now selling a metal-bending
    kit, for those who want to duplicate the Geller feats.
    
    Like Topher, I am convinced that there is ample evidence of paranormal
    abilities.  Belief in the Geller Effect is not central to accepting
    the validity of partanormal events.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    Uri Geller was, in my opinion, a total fraud.  He may have had the
    abilities of some special psychic feats at one time, but he exploited
    them to a point of ridiculousness.  Publishing a book and so forth,
    could have corrupted any claimed psychic.  I think he was most likely
    a fraud from square one, but I still have doubts...
    
    Rich.

    
    	The Amazing Randy was on the Johnny Carson show about a week
    ago and showed that Uri Geller's metal bending technique was only
    knowing where some pressure points on the spoons and keys that he
    used were. I do accept that Uri was a fraud but there's one thing
    I can't figure out. One time, while he was on the Mike Douglas show,
    I attempted to bend a key at home as Uri suggested. I'll be damned
    if that key didn't bend. In fact, it was the key to my car trunk
    and I had to order a new one when I couldn't use it anymore.
    
    /Pete

    Re: .4
    
    How easily did it bend for you?  Did you have a dent in you finger
    from pressing on the key or did the key seem softer than normal?
    I tried bending a spoon and tried very hard not to use an excess
    of strength (I know I can bend a spoon if I want to).  I was waiting
    for it to bend easily.  I quit after about 20 min.
    
    		Dave

    
    Re: .4
    
    	I found it quite easy to bend. I rubbed the key along the shank
    with my thumb and forefinger, applying no pressure to bend the key.
    I never expected any results, but after about 5 mins. of listening
    to Uri on the TV and rubbing as described, the key had a definite
    bend. I was shocked and put the key down to think about it for awhile.
    I came to the conclusion that I could come to no conclusion. Funny
    thing though, was when I picked it up again, it had bent even more
    while it was just sitting on the table. I have never been able to
    duplicate the 'trick', not that I have tried that many times.
    
    /Pete

RE .4

It's unlikely that Randi could demonstrate any such thing.  With close-up
video-tapes or films, he might demonstrate that on some occasions Geller
took advantage of such knowledge.  Without such evidence, the most he could
demonstrate was that it is possible that Geller made use of such knowledge.
Such demonstrations are sufficient for us to conclude that there is no
evidence that Geller is genuine, but insufficient to firmly conclude that
he is purely a fraud.  (As I've said elsewhere, I don't think its very likely
that Geller is genuine, but that is not based on simplistic demonstrations
under very different conditions).

As far as your key bending -- I don't think that Geller can be credited with
anything more than inspiring your own abilities, either "normal" (e.g.,
unconsciously applied "hysterical" strength) or paranormal.  Batchelder has
performed experiments which he interprets as showing that some deliberately
fraudulent PK effects can be used to inspire a group to "real" PK.  His
interpretation is somewhat controversial since his setup is such that it
is impossible to eliminate the possibility that *all* the reported effects
weren't well-intentioned fraud.

				Topher

    In the matter of metal-bending, it seems likely to me that there
    is an intimate mind-body connection that has been insufficiently
    investigated.  If this connection exists, it would seem to invalidate
    "true" PK, because, as I understand it (somebody correct me if I'm
    wrong) "true" PK is supposed to be the ability to perform a physical
    feat entirely with mental power.  A convincing demo of that ability
    for me would be for someone to simply stare at a key or spoon and
    have it bend for them.
    
    But if someone touches the thing, there is definitely some interesting
    factors that come into play.  Consider the following:
    
      o Topher referred to "hysterical strength".  Evenyone know stories
        of little grannies who lifted Buicks off their favorite pets
        or grandchildren.
    
      o A _very_ interesting study I read of involved color.  Researchers
        took light and heavy boxes and colored the light ones black
        and the heavy ones white.  They put them in the loading dock
        of a company and had the experimenter (alias the supervisor)
        ask workmen to move them to new locations.  The workmen had
        trouble lifting the dark colored boxes, even though they were
        lighter; they also lifted the white boxes with great ease, even
        though they were heavier.  Because it seems we associate light
        colors with light weight and dark colors with heavier weights,
        this says that their mental expectations did indeed influence
        their physical performance.  My husband observed "Is that why
        the ballerina is always clad in purest white, so the lead male
        can lift her easier?"
    
      o Pick up any weight training mag and you will find at least one
        article on the mental aspects of training.  People who have
        been exercising hard but making no gains in strength or size
        are told to focus totally on the exercise and actively visualize
        the desired results.  And from the accolades of the people who
        had considered themselves "stuck" and followed this advice,
        it looks like it works.
    
      o How many of you out there have taken bio-feedback training?
        It works.  And to think that not that many years ago "serious"
        scientists did not believe that any such thing was possible.
        But now they teach people to control all sorts of supposedly
        automatic responses, such as blood pressure, brain waves, 
        blood circulation.
    
    It may be that true PK is either non-existent or at least extremely
    rare, like any other unique talent.  But the mind-body combo seems
    capable of amazing feats all on its own.  When the mind and body
    get together, it seems we are all "psychic", in that we can use
    our mental powers to assist in physical effects.
    
    Marcia