Conference hydra::dejavu

Some have asked for sources for the topic.  So here they are.
    
The bit about Solomon comes from the Book of Solomom.
All the rest of the ideas come from Dr. Martin A. Larsons book

                  "The Story of Christian Origins",

pages 1-23, copyrighted 1977, ISBN 0-88331-090-2 and Library of Congress 
Card Catalog Number 76-40842.

Paragraphs 1-5 are basic Egyptian history.  The Pre- Osirian Theogony comes
from the Papyrus of Nesi Amsu, reproduced by Sir E. A. Wallis Budge and you
can compare that against "Egyptian Ideas of the Future Life" Ch. 1.

That Osiris was venerated by all of the Egyptian world and was at least 
as well know as Jesus in the Christian world comes from Hymn of Osiris Un-neffer
that's included in the Papyrus of Ani.

The Osirian Myth is fully told in Plutarch and reinforced by Diodorus Siculus
that is written in Isis and Osiris 12-20 and Diodorus I 73 respectively.

The Horus-Set conflict where Horus bruses his heal and Sets head gets crushed 
is from Hymn to Ra in the Papyrus of Nekht.

The Isis, Thoth and Horus resurection of Osiris is probably in any
Encyclipedia.  

That the hope of every Egyptian was to achieve immortality by being
transformed into an Osiris (by sacrament and ethics) and to obtain "a
homestead forever in Sekhet-Aru" (the Elysian fields) "with wheat and barley
therefor" is written in Hymn to Osiris Un-nefer.

That Osiris sets in judgement over the soul aspiring to enter the Elysian
Fields (Heaven to the Egyptian) is presented in the Papyrus of Ani written
during the 18th Dynasty, about 1550 BC.  This is also supported by the 
celebrated chapter CXXV of "The Book of The Dead" as written in the Papyri
of Ani, Nu and Nebseni, all circa 1550 BC. 

In Osirian myth there is no waiting around to be "punished".  If the aspirant
didn't make it through the Judgement, his heart was condemed and eaten by 
the great monster Apep, aka, Amemet and his body was thrown into the "Lake
of Fire" as supported by The Book of the Dead, LXXI, XVII and XIX.

The concept of sacramental food which directly relates to the eating the
body and drinking the blood of the sacrifice is very old and comes from 
at least the Pyramid Text of Teta, circa 2600 BC.  This is also presented by
the Osiris Teta, Text of Pepi I and Text of Pepi II which I think are also
listed in the Book of the Dead somewhere around XCIX lines 300-390.

My purpose wasn't to make anyone "guilty by association" at all.  It was to
show that major portions of the Judistic and Christian faiths were absorbed
from other religions in that part of the world.  Just looking at all the
venerated dieties from those times and places it is easy for anyone to see
that as a particular cult, faith or religion migrated around it was changed
to meet the needs of the people of that location.  This proves my point that
any belief system tries to meet the needs of it followers.  Consequently the
belief system will adopt sacrament and history as the Priests or leaders 
of that religion see fit.  This also shows that people, not gods, write and 
rewrite the accepted base text to meet needs (I won't get into the argument
that these needs are good or bad, or are needs of the people or of the priests).


Ps.  This note and title topic were origional listed in the Bible Notesfile.

                                     (*)

    A point of note:
    
    Ositis (Asar), Isis (Ast) and Horus (Heru) were among the most popular
    of the Khemite pantheon, and lasted well after the Romanization
    of Khem (which sort of lost its integrity at that point and became
    close to the Egypt of today).  The tradition maintained, and Osiris
    became associated with God, the Father, Isis with Mary, and Horus
    (as the Greek-named "Harpokrates," or "the child Horus," alwaus
    shown in statuary and hieroglyphics as sucking his thumb) as the
    baby Jesus.
    
    When the Council of Nicea was formed to settle some religious
    ambiguities (I still consider this the singlemost arrogant act in
    the history of my religion), there were many Egyptian converts to
    Christianity as members.  Since the Egyptians were used to composite
    gods, the idea of the Trinity seemed natural to them.
    
    There are other aspects of the Khemite creation mythos that are
    at wide divergence to this, and the Isis/Osiris storey has several
    variants, including _two_ resurrections.  Not quite the same as
    Our Savior.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

  Steve, I believe that the first ressurection was when Thoth taught
  Isis the "magic" to raise Horus and the second one was when Thoth,
  Isis and Horus ressurected Osiris.  Please correct me if I am
  wrong.
  
                                  (*)

    Re .3:
    
    As I recall (without checking references), the first resurrection
    was after Isis got the Secret Name of Re (after getting a serpent
    [_not_ Aapep/Apophis] to bite him); the Name she used to resurrect
    him the first time; then, when Set had tricked Osiris and after
    killing him, chopped the corpse to pieces, Isis, with help put him
    back together (she had to carve one piece out of wood to replace
    what the fishes had eaten) and resurrected him _again_; but this
    time, he became king of the Underworld (Anubis was guardian, not
    ruler), and oversaw the judgemewnt of the dead (actually carried
    out by Thoth, when he wasn't busy elsewhere).  It was after Osiris
    was safely, er, tucked away in Tuat (the afterworld, which was
    virtually identical to regular Egypt) that the Horus-Set set-to
    took place.  By current standards of mythology, that story has some
    rather racy elements.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    
    P.S.:  There are several, partially contradictory, sets of
    Isis/Ositis/Horus legends; the innate conservatism of the Khemites
    prevented them from throwing out any of the variants of a tale.
     If only the Great Library at Alexandria hadn't burned!  (It was
    burned once by the Pagan Romans, once by the Christians, and finally
    by the Moslems -- so no one group or sect can be blamed, as it
    happens.)  The greatest amount of sacred writings were there.
    
    -S
    

  The Osiris worship continued with little modification on the
  island of Philae in the upper Nile for several centuries into
  our era and sacraments were performed there as late as the sixth
  century AD.  The edic of Theodosius (a christian) that all pagan
  temples be destroyed and their worshipers forced to accept
  christianity about 380 AD was there ignored.  About 550, however,
  Justinian dispatched to Philae General Narses, who destroyed
  the great Osirian temples and sanctuaries, threw the priests
  into prison, and carried away the sacred images to Constantinople.
  
  Here officialy died the cult of Osiris.  But the soteriology
  which was its central feature had already assumed various forms
  which had long since proliferated far and wide in the ancient
  world.  I personaly have meet a person who was involved in Osiris
  worship.  He may have been the last lone voice in the vast forest
  of the New World.

  Just goes to show what great things can be done when there is
  a "State Religion".
  
                                (*)

    Re .5:
    
    Contrary to the sentiments expressed above, Osiris worship, as well
    as worship of other members of the Egyptian pantheon is being carried
    on in the New World by more than a single person.  The Church of
    the Eternal Source, with branches in California and New Hampshire,
    is active today.
    
    It is one of a number of Neopagan churches currently active.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    
    	What was the time period between Osirus/Set and Marduk/Tiamut
    of Babaylon? and is it probable that these two are also connected?
    	I think I remember from my foolish youth that Tiamut was primal
    chaos and was portrayed as a sepent also. (as well as levithan)
    	Not to get too involved...but...The book of JOB (thats right
    folks were using the BIBLE as a ref here) seems to coencide with
    Babylonian Mythology (end chapters KJV) and also mentions Rahab?
    	Are all three wound together? Christian/Jewish, Egyptian,
    and Babalonian?? were they borrowed from each other or were the
    societies so similar in there begining that they also took a similar
    path in mythology.??
    
    Craig
    

    re .7 (Craig):
    
    >	Not to get too involved...but...The book of JOB (thats right
    >folks were using the BIBLE as a ref here) seems to coencide with
    >Babylonian Mythology (end chapters KJV) and also mentions Rahab?
     
    Actually, The Book of Job was more likely written around the time
    of the Hellenes.  The Babylonian mythology was far older than that.
    
    I'm certain there was a bit of cross-fertilization in mythologies,
    though.  One of the Egyptian gods, Bes, is clearly an "outsider."
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr,

    Joseph Campbell has written extensively about the simlarities
    and evelution of the mythologies of the world's religions...
    
    One interesting book is _Myths to Live By_
    
    His major effort, _The Masks of God_ (4 volumes) exhaustively
    covers the subject.
    
    
    	bruce

.9 (bruce)

I caught an interview the other nite on channel 44 (Boston) with Joseph
Campbell. It was hosted by Bill Moyers. I was fascinated by Campbell.
Unfortunately, right in the middle they switched to coverage of the State
House proceedings 8'(

Thanks for the book pointers.

Jay

    re .7
    The version I heard, resonably reliably, was that most of
    collection of angles/demons etc shows up in the (then)
    Jewish tradition _after_ the return from the captivity
    in Babylon.  The implication was that substantial portions
    of the Babylonian beliefs had been picked up.
    
    I _am_not_ a scholar (amatuer or otherwise) so can cite no
    sources.  I toss it in FWIW and on case any one can provide
    further comment.
    
    thanks
    dave pierson

RE: .10 (Jay)

That was probably from the 'Power of Myth' series (6 episodes).  If it
is over, you can get the book by the same name.  It's the dialog plus
some pictures and photographs.  It also explains how you can get copies
of the video.  A terrific series!

Terry

    
    
    RE: .10 Jay
    
    The Power of Myth series is currently being aired on PBS/Boston.
    The 4th episode will be on this Friday evening at 9:00 PM, though
    I think you can catch #3 this Thursday evening, as well as over
    the weekend.
    
    Carole
    

Readers of this note would probably be interested in a magazine
called Free Inquiry, which regards religious phenomena from a
strictly rationalist point of view.  It is quite easy reading
considering that it consists of scholarly articles written by
ivory-tower intellectuals who tend to be pointy-headed.  Past
issues can be ordered separately.  These essays are very thought
provoking.  Here are some sample titles:
"Woody Allen Interviews the Reverend Billy Graham"
"Is Belief in the Supernatural Inevitable?"
"The 'Escape Goat' of Christianity"
"The Winter Solstice and the Origins of Christmas"
"Jesus in Time and Space"
"Was Jesus a Magician?"
"The Nativity Legends"

Here's the address:
Free Inquiry
Box 5
Buffalo, New York  14215-0005

I must warn you that the magazine is, of course, of an agnostic
bent.  It presupposes that modern man is less susceptible to
superstitious beliefs...but, don't let the facts confuse you!  8^).

- Jim
< Note 98.9 by ULTRA::LARU "Byzantine dancing astronaut" >
                                  -< sources >-

    Joseph Campbell has written extensively about the simlarities
    and evelution of the mythologies of the world's religions...
    
    One interesting book is _Myths to Live By_
    
    His major effort, _The Masks of God_ (4 volumes) exhaustively
    covers the subject.
    
    
    	bruce

    re: _Free Inquiry_
    
    It is my understanding that the guiding principle of the magazine
    (published by the Humanists) is _Atheistic_ rather than agnostic.
    I recall that they recognize no validity of anything "spiritual."
    They struck me as fairly narrow-minded.
    
    /bruce