Conference hydra::dejavu

	You make some pretty good examples of being taken in your base note,
	Steve, and I think this could be a good premise to set up a list of
	questions people should ask about these type of things so to prevent
	being taken.

		1. Is it based on a known subject of the occult?

		2. Is the group offering it reputable?

		3. Are there any books to reference about it?

	These questions aren't necessarily the best ones but I think we all
together could devise a list to help us avoid being bamboozled.  


						Food for Thought
							Jorge'

Some other questions:

		1)  Does the item claim to have some sort of "power" on it's
		    own, or is it a tool to be used by the purchaser?

		2)  Is it offering a material benefit (such as winning a
		    lottery) or is for the growth of the purchaser?

		3)  Does it contain step-by-step instructions which look
		    like sort of a psychic "get rich quick" scheme?    


From the ads I've seen very few have much in the way of valid symbolism at
all.  Of the ones that do, wearing or possessing the object would have the
same effect as owning a crucifix - i.e. wearing or possessing the object
in and of itself has no value, although using the object as a reminder of
the power of what it symbolizes could effect the persons awareness of the
forces in the universe outside of himself.

/Kathleen

    Recently, I saw an ad concerning a book weitten by someone who claims
    she's not really a human woman, but a "switch" from a lonely woman
    here on earth.  The author claims she's really from Venus, which
    (according to the ad) she describes as a form of utopia.
    
    This is a perfect test for charlatanism.  If there's something science
    can't [yet] explain, like telepathy or psychokinesis, that's one
    thing.  As the school textbooks say, it's "outside the scope of
    the course."  However, we know the following about Venus: its
    atmosphere is mostly carbon dioxide and has more than a dozen times
    the pressure of the Earth's atmosphere.  Its surface temperature
    is in exce4ss of 800 degrees Farenheit.  Its surface shows no signs
    of life.  These are the result of instrumented probes orbiting and
    soft-landing on the surface.
    
    It's nice to dream about other worlds, but when someone claims
    something that's at strict variance with established measurements,
    then one's doubter should swing into high gear.
    
    Again: I'm _not_ knocking true paranormal phenomena/claims.  However,
    there's a lot of junk one has to wade through to get at the good
    stuff.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
     

    Re .4:
    
    That's an interesting claim.  H.P. Lovecraft, the well known
    (and entirely too well informed) horror writer, wrote a story --
    I think it was called "At the Mountains of Madness" -- about a
    man who had two nervous breakdowns, and after the second had,
    for a time, no memory of the period between the two, and some
    lack of coordination.
    
    Over time, he learned that after the first nervous breakdown he
    had apparently been reduced to the condition of an uncoordinated
    infant, but speedily recovered and became a world traveler and
    tireless scholar, according to those who witnessed his actions.

    Yet he recalled none of it.  Over time he began to have vile
    nightmares, however, in which he imagined himself to have been
    imprisoned and interrogated, somewhere the likes of which he had
    never seen, and throughout the time, he'd been afraid to look at
    his body, even his hands...You can probably guess the rest!
    
    But I suspect this alleged Venusian isn't quite as imaginative
    (or as educated) as Mr. Lovecraft.
    
    Pat Hardy
    

    Re .6
    
    You're right.  "At the Mountains of Madness" makes a reference to
    the creatures responsible for the mind-napping, but "The Shadow
    Out of Time" is the story I was thinking of.
    
    

    re .8:
    
    In most traditions I've encountered, it's rare that someone producing
    an amulet or other charm does it for cash.  Those that do don't
    advertise, and they certainly don't make sensationalistic claims.
    
    If you know a wiccan or shaman, for instance, and you have a specific
    problem or concern, that person might fabricate an effective amulet,
    fetish, or talisman to address that problem.
    
    To some, religious medals seem effective.  But the standard medal
    (e.g., a "Mr." Christopher medallion), if acquired, would better
    be done through a normal outlet than through an advertisement saying
    something on the order of, "Mrs. X bought our Miraculous Medallion
    and hit the lottery big!"  That's the general sign of a questionable
    object.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    re .9
    
    In the title, delete "Generally."
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    In general, I find that this rule works well for me;
    
    If anyone claims that they can do something for you with little
    or no effort on your part that (if you were to *change*
    your reality and really *work* for whatever is your goal) *could*
    eventually happen for you via your own efforts, it's not a good idea 
    to let that person give to you, for whatever the cost.  Perhaps
    what you want isn't yours yet because you have not learned the
    appropriate lessons which would better enable you to use it.
    
    Meredith

    Re .11 (Merideth)
    
    That depends on who it is, how it's done, and why it's done.
    
    A mundane example.  Suppose you are sick, and your goal is to get
    well.  Getting help from a doctor is probably a good idea.
    
    Likewise, if you are having a problem that can be solved by magical
    means, asking for someone's help may be of benefit.  The lesson
    involved just could be to become less independent.
    
    In either case, you should be able to trust the person or people
    helping you.
    
    If you are talking about some $30 gizmo that possessing it will
    give you instant power/enlightenment/*, then I agree with you.
    
    Elizabeth