Conference 7.286::sports_90

    BOY OH BOY OH BOY OH BOY OH BOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    I feel so privileged to be the first to enter this contest (small
    consolation for working on a Saturday!).
    
    Before I compose my entry, let me thank the kind, wonderful, and
    generous duo of Mr. Haas and Mr. Hunt.  This is a contest that has
    been begging to be started, and I am thrilled to be able to take part.
    
    AS for my entry, since I'm a bit older than many of you ;-(, I will go
    back in time to the spring of 1971.  It is the first round of the NIT
    tournament at Madison Square Garden.  The Heels are facing Julius
    Erving and the University of Massachusetts Redmen, who are coming off
    their best season in history.  They are 23-3, undefeated in the
    conference, boasting non-conference wins over Holy Cross, Boston
    College, Syracuse, and George Washington, having won 12 of their
    last 13 games.  The Redmen were small, starting 6-7 Kenny Mathias 
    at center, with 6-6 Erving and 6-5 Rick Vogeley at forward.  The
    shooting guard was 6-0 John Bettancourt, the point guard 5-10 Mike
    Pagliara.
    
    Who gives a sh*t what Carolina's record was at the time, but they
    did go on to win the NIT this year.  Billy Chamberlain was the star
    of the Heels squad, and as I remember (typically of UNC) he was one
    of three starters for them from NY.
    
    Anyway, the first 12 minutes of the first half are excellent.  Erving,
    although cold from the field is dominating the boards.  Bettancourt is
    also cold, but Pagliara is draining some long jumpers and Mathias is
    holding his own in the middle.  UMass is up 16-13 when Erving picks up
    his second foul.  No big deal, or so one would think.  Then the CLEMSON
    refs whistle him for his third foul on a phony flop by some wimp Heel
    whose butt was on the floor before Erving ever got near him.  There
    are 5 minutes left in the half, and UMass is down 1, 22-21.  A minute
    and a half later, Chamberlain drives to the hoop, makes the shot, and
    was fouled.  Unbelievably, they call the foul on Erving!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Why he was in the game with three fouls is open to debate, but now he 
    has four, the team is down by eight (29-21), and there are still over
    three minutes to play in the half.  Erving comes out, but the UMies
    hold their own, until some wimpy guard hits a shot at the buzzer for
    Carolina - 37-28 at the half.
    
    Erving starts the second half, and helps narrow the score to 41-35 with
    17 minutes left, then the REFS whistle him out of the game. 
    UNbelievable.  Needless to say, the game turned into a rout.  There was
    one point in the second half where UMass didn't score for almost six
    minutes.  The Carolina lead built - 20, 25, 30 points.  Jack "Bulldog"
    Leaman emptied his bench, but for some reason, Dean never did.  In
    fact, Chamberlain didn't come out until there were only about 2 minutes
    left, and the Heels up by 40.  Final score was 90-49, and I've hated
    the overrated shrimp ever since.
    
    BTW, thanks to the UMass media guide for refreshing my memory on some
    points about this game.
    
    NAZZ

    What a no-good, lousy, underhanded, cheap shot Ketch.  I shoulda known
    you'd pull something like this, but I didn't think it'd be so *foul*. 
    So *disgusting*.  So, ... *filthy*.  I can't believe my good buddy
    TTom (who's Wolfpack I was rooting wholeheartedly for the other night
    against those dispicable Dukesters and their media-bashing BobKnight
    clone coach) would be in on this.  Plus I read PersonalFouls and
    defended them and Jimmy V to a far greater degree than our ultra-clean
    program warrants.  I just can't believe it, and won't until I see him
    endorse your non-Contest personally.
    
    STOP THIS THING NOW MR.MODERATOR.  
    
    Unlike *my* HUGELY successful Contest (300+ entries and a lock for
    NoTY, so I'm told) this one is utterly bogus.  YA DON'T EVEN GET
    ANYTHING FOR WINNING - WHAT KIND OF CONTEST IS THAT???  
    
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    
    
    
     BTW - I did enjoy Nazz's note though.  If they're all like that, this 
           thing might not be as bad as I thought.  One other important
           item. (TTom & Ketch take special note.)  For every great memory
           you may have of TarHeel defeats, I've probably got double or
           *triple* the ammunition.  And my memory is *long*.  Very *long*.
           Perhaps RALPH SAMPSON would be a good place to start!  Or the
    	   number of Virginians on our current roster?  Or Terry's cute
    	   little female dog he's got?  Heh hah!!!!!
    
    

    WRITE LOCK IT NOW JEFF.
    

    Dang, who really cares who plays down the road a piece?  I can't
    see this contest going farther than Metz can throw a hog.  I'm
    gonna make myself com-for-ta-ble... and figure out why guys from
    up North in Yankee land like Valvano, Kenny Anderson, and King
    Rice were even allowed down in these here parts...  Gimme a real
    sport like auto racin'... ooh-wee, I love Richard Petty,  he'll
    always be the king to me.... 'scuse me, gotta load up the chaw 
    again, I done drooled on myself....
    
    -Walt

    I should win the free ride to the ACC tourny for the following reasons:
    
       - If I'm not there, I'll be forced to watch it on TV, probably
    	  pre-empting the Big East tourny.  (Maybe there's a good chess
    	  tourny on NBC or ABC that weekend.  I can only hope.)
    
    	- Since I can't get Hornets tickets, I haven't been to the
    	  coliseum yet this year and I hear they have improved the
    	  food.
    
    	- I'd like to get some of the aforesaid food and throw it
    	  at all the powder (puff) blue sh*theads that will turn out to
    	  cheer they're wonderfully unimaginative cheers (which, needless
    	  to say, will be a waste of good oxygen since they'll lose anyway).
    
    In the words of the late John Belushi: "Foooooood fight!"
    
    In the words of the great Bob Hunt: "Puh...puh...puh...please."
    
    	--dan'l

    
    Good thing this conference allow multiple entries as I'm sure I'll
    need em'.... ;^)
    
    first one though of the top of my head was the beauty Snuffy (tm)
    pulled last year against Georgia Tech. He diliberetly fouls with 
    under 10 second left to keep Scott from throwing up a three pointer
    to win the game. They make one and then steal the ball to win it...
    
    the only good thing I can say about Snuffy is the jerk's four corners
    offense brought on the shot clock.....
    
    mike
    

    ACC basketball in college = AFC in pro football?
    
    Nice rivalries, fairly even competition within the conference. 
    
    Kevin
    

    Mike,
    
    I had no problem with Dean's coaching in that one.  Kevin Madden
    simply threw the ball away on the inbounds pass.
    
    Blaming Dean for the loss is Monday Morning Quarterbacking at its
    worst.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

    Which Carolina losses do you blame Dean Smith for ???
    
    Bob Hunt

    My first shot.
    
    Dan Reeves is the Dean Smith of Pro Football.  He can always get
    tickets to the dance,but the only dance he can get is when he's
    shaking the last few after urinating.
    
    JD

    > which losses to you blame Dean on?
    
    Whadaya think I'm stupid Ketch???  I ain't gonna supply supply the
    ammunition to my own exection.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

    JD, that dance you described of Reeves is called "The Onan".
    
    HTH.
    
    Hawk

�    JD, that dance you described of Reeves is called "The Onan".
�   
�    HTH.
�    
�    Hawk


Yes, and have you noticed that Reeves' first name is that same as
our very own Onan of SPORTS?

The Dean Dome is the Gateway to Hell, and all that is abhorred by
GawdFearing followers of the Pantheon.  Snuffy Smif' is Old Scratch
himself.

HTH,
'Saw

   � > which losses to you blame Dean on?
   � 
   � Whadaya think I'm stupid Ketch???  I ain't gonna supply supply the
   � ammunition to my own exection.
    
    I won't answer the "do you think I'm stupid" question, Soup. 
    That'd be like stealing.
    
    What I would like you to do is *objectively* consider and analyze
    Smith's coaching skills.
    
    A reference to the game last year that Carolina just plain *gave*
    to Georgia Tech comes up and *you* jump to Dean's defense.   I'd
    just like to see if there have ever been any Carolina losses that
    have occurred that you directly or indirectly attribute to a
    mistake or a set of mistakes made by Dean Smith.
    
    Because, with all sincerity, if you cannot find fault with Dean
    Smith for *ANY* Carolina loss, then you have surely lost your
    objectivity towards the man and his program.   He *MUST* have
    helped blow at least some games.
    
    I know you're a passionate fan.  Now let's see if you can be
    objective as well.
    
    Bob Hunt

How many "excellent losses" equal a champeenship?

    
    Chris, why not play good deny defense and not give up the three? Look
    at the facts less than 50% of three pointers are not made so there is
    no quarantee that someone from GT would have made. I'll grant you Scott
    is unconcicous from behind the line but he doesn't shoot 100%. By 
    deliberately fouling he gave GT 2 chances to win the game:
    
     1. make the first free throw, miss the second but tap in the rebound
    
     2. make one and then force a turnover, which indeed happened...
    
    of course for one who subscribes to quality losses I'm not surprised
    you have no problems with his decision....
    
    A second nit I have that I believe many share is Dean-o's recommending
    to Kids to enter the draft early. If he really cared about his boys
    he'd tell them to finish up school now and enjoy their young adulthood
    life. Granted most have gone back and finished but I'm sure some
    haven't and for this he should be castrated.....
    
    Ralph Sampson could have came out of college any year he wanted and
    been the number 1 pick in the draft but you didn't see Terry Holland
    telling him to take off for the big bucks.....
    
    mike

    Dean Smith is the John McNamara of college basketball coaches,
    at least in the nose department.  Straighten that crook out of
    the middle of Mac's prodigious schnozola and you've got a Dean
    lookalike.
    
    NAZZ

    Mike,
    
    The only one who hasn't come back is McAdoo.  JR will be getting his
    degree or his parents will disown him, so I'm told.
    
    Mac came out of a junior college (only JC Dean's ever had) and was
    probably not college material.  Don't know if Dean recommended it or
    not, but it was probably a good decision.  Not everyone is meant for
    college, ya know.  Unfortunately though the NBA uses college as its
    free "minor leagues", thereby practically shutting the door to kids who
    just don't belong there.
    
    To say Dean tells 'em to go pro cause he doesn't care about them is
    completely ridiculous and I can't believe you mean that.  The reason he
    tells 'em to go is because HE DOES CARE ABOUT THEM.  He cares about his
    players FIRST.  If he was interested in himself obviously he'd tell 'em
    to stay!  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>    I won't answer the "do you think I'm stupid" question, Soup. 
>    That'd be like stealing.

Oh thank-you thank-you thank-you thank-you!!!   I'm *SO* grateful!!!!1111
(Insert heavy sarcasm here as ACC Chris takes offense at the implication.)
    

>    What I would like you to do is *objectively* consider and analyze
>    Smith's coaching skills.

You first.  It's *YOUR* contest. (And not a very successful one at that.)

    
>    A reference to the game last year that Carolina just plain *gave*
>    to Georgia Tech comes up and *you* jump to Dean's defense.

That's right.  Because he simply did NOT make a coaching error.  To
blame a coach on a loss because a player throws the ball away is just dumb.
The only line of reasoning that makes even the remotest of sense is
to say that "Dean doesn't teach passing fundamentals", which not to
many people would agree with.


>    I know you're a passionate fan.  Now let's see if you can be
>    objective as well.
    
What am I, in a Basketball 101 class, with BobHunt playing perfessor?
Let's put it this way.  Dean Smith is a great coach.  He's in the HoF.
His accomplishments are recited ad naseum every time the Heels are on
National TV.  (Yes, even *I* get sick of hearing the litany.)  More
importantly, his success has been done the "right" way.  His players
graduate.  They go on to become doctors and lawyers and NBA tradesmen and 
politicians and league commisioners, and etc, etc, etc. 

Given this little tidbit of knowledge you've gotta ask yourself one
question:  "Who am I to critize him?"  In the entire Bobby Knight debate
I've never questioned his coaching, cause I know he knows more about
basketball in his baby toenail than I do in my whole body.  And I've
been watching and playing hoops for a long time.  The extent of my
Knight criticism comes (justifiably) from his poor judgement in other
areas. 

The same is true with Dean.  Who are *YOU* to critize one of the greatest 
basketball minds EVER?  Sure, as a jealous fan you have the "right" to.  
It's a free country, no matter how much Coach K might try to change things.  
As for myself (as a discple) I choose to recognize the mans greatness and 
give him the benefit of the doubt when those (rare) occasions occur where 
I *might* disagree with a coaching decision he makes.  Cause history has 
clearly shown that the man is certainly right on his decisions a whole heckuva
lot of the time.

Let me give you guys a hint though.  Your best line of attack doesn't come
from Dean's game coaching, but from his "system".  It's probably cost
us a Title or two.  Check with TTom - he knows and understands this 
better than any of you.


- ACC Chris
    

I think I should go to the games.

The reason?  Because I know that if I sat behind the UNC bench I could
get Rev' Smif' to throw a chair at me...

    Hey, Chris, chill out, dude ...
    
  �  You first.  It's *YOUR* contest. (And not a very successful one at
  �  that.)
    
    I have no interest whatsoever in the "success" (whatever that is)
    of this contest.  Go back and reread the base note.  This was
    meant as a humorous tweak at you, your contest, and your Tar
    Heels.   If you're offended or angered by this, then I am truly
    sorry.  It wasn't meant to offend; just to tickle.   If you want
    to turn this into some kind of bad-blood dispute, then I
    respectfully decline and you and I can go our separate ways.
    
  �  That's right.  Because he simply did NOT make a coaching error. 
  �  To blame a coach on a loss because a player throws the ball away
  �  is just dumb.
    
    No one blames a coach when a player throws a ball away.  What
    people blame coaches for is for creating or allowing such a
    situation for disaster.  Perhaps Smith did not make an error in
    this case.  Perhaps he erred in allowing an inbounds pass to occur
    in the first place.
    
    People jumped all over Guy V Lewis when he allowed the Houston
    Cougars to play a slow patient game against Valvano's Wolfpack in
    1983.   I agree that Lewis is not to blame for Lorenzo Charles'
    dunk to end the game.  But Lewis deserves the heat for slowing
    down Phi Slamma Jamma in the first place to even allow a close
    score.
    
    Has Dean Smith ever, I mean *EVER*, made such a mistake ???  Has
    he ever even once gone to the Four Corners way too soon or way too
    late ???   Has he ever even once left a player in too long with
    too many fouls and lost him with too much time left ???   Has he
    ever even once called for a zone when a man-to-man would have been
    more effective ???   Ever ???
    
  �  What am I, in a Basketball 101 class, with BobHunt playing
  �  perfessor? Let's put it this way.  Dean Smith is a great coach. 
  �  He's in the HoF. His accomplishments are recited ad naseum every
  �  time the Heels are on National TV ...
    
    You're avoiding the question.   Don't tell me his accomplishments. 
    I know what he's accomplished.    Tell me if you think he's ever
    made a coaching mistake.  Just one.   If you insist that in almost
    30 years of coaching that he has *never* made a coaching error,
    then you are compromising your objectivity which weakens your
    argument.
    
  �  The same is true with Dean.  Who are *YOU* to critize one of the
  �  greatest  basketball minds EVER?  Sure, as a jealous fan you have
  �  the "right" to.   It's a free country, no matter how much Coach K
  �  might try to change things.   As for myself (as a discple) I
  �  choose to recognize the mans greatness and  give him the benefit
  �  of the doubt when those (rare) occasions occur where  I *might*
  �  disagree with a coaching decision he makes.  Cause history has 
  �  clearly shown that the man is certainly right on his decisions a
  �  whole heckuva lot of the time.
    
    You're right.   I'm nobody.  Thing is I never insisted I *was*
    somebody.   Just because someone is better at something than we
    are doesn't mean we have to fall down and worship him.  If that
    were true, we'd spend all day bowing and genuflecting to our
    superiors.   Just because my mother bakes a mean chocolate cake
    and I can't doesn't mean I can't say it needs a little more sugar. 
    Just because I write darn good ALL-IN-1 applications and Dean
    Smith can't doesn't mean Dean Smith can't ask me to make the PF2
    key work differently.
    
    And just because Dean Smith is a better college basketball coach
    than either you or I (or most, if not all, other human beings, for
    that matter) doesn't mean we can't wonder why they're in a
    box-and-one instead of triangle-and-two.
    
    Don't blow it, Chris.  Blind faith is the worst kind.
    
    Bob Hunt

    Fair enough Bob.  For the record then:
    
    NO, DEAN'S NEVER MADE A MISTAKE.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    .23�    NO, DEAN'S NEVER MADE A MISTAKE.
    
    What about Warren Martin?????   I know that was a mistake!!!!  He was
    worse that Sudhop! At least Glen made it to the NBA for a while...
    
    Go Pack!
    
    B.A.

    
    Ahhhhhhh, Nice contest Bob.....
    
    My personal favorite and T will back me on this one; The 84 STAR
    HEELS, led by superstar Michael Jordan and at least 7 other HS or
    College All-Americans take on Indiana's band of basketball misfits.
    Bobby Knight in a masterful coaching ploy decides to put Dan Dakich
    on Jordan and he goes on to hold Jordan to a career low 11 pts.
    Smif' was befuddled by Knight's coaching genius from the opening
    tap as the Star Heels never recovered.  I wouldn't have been surprised
    if the Star Heels were favored by 15 or 20 pts and instead they
    go on to lose by about 15.  NC still haven't recovered from this
    embarrassing loss, as can be seen by their failure year after year
    to reach the title game despite having the top talent in the country.
    
    This one was definately not a 'Good Loss', eh Chris????
    
    Cap
    
    

    I've already explained this one Cap.  Our studly point guard Kenny
    Smith was playing with a freakin' cast on his arm, thanks to a cheap
    shot courtesy of LSU.  
    
    Give credit to Bob & IU for a great win, but K Smith's injury played a
    *major* factor in this one.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

There are several basic tenets of the Gospel According to Dean. Michael 
Jordan, and hence the Tar Heel fortunes, suffered from one of the 
cardinal rules:

		THOU SHALT NOT BE A STAR

In Michael's case, this meant that his scoring average was about half 
that of his current pro stats. The only statistic that Dean will let you 
get as many as you want rebounds. This translates into each individual is 
told how often he can shoot, from various areas on the court. Players who 
shoot more often than they are told from a given area are relegated to 
the pine. Do it enough, and you lose your playing time.

A natural consequence of this is that when a game is on the line you have 
no one to go to who plays that role and, as important, no plays to get 
the ball to the hot hand. Many of the defeats that Michael Jordan
suffered in 83 and 84 could have been pulled out by the guy we now see 
play in the pros, playing the way we see him playing now. Fans of the
game were deprived of this by the system.

There is a secondary effect of this No Star Heel System (tm): if the 
opposing team gets a player with a hot hand, or that team has a 
designated star, Dean doesn't have a defensive plan to stop that star. 
Steve Alford hits a couple and when any one else would react, it's 
business as usual for the Heels, cause there ain't no stars.

TTom

    
    Chris, it's a lame excuse and you know it. While point guard is the
    most important posistion in the college game, Snuffy had more than
    enough talent to over-ride the loss of Smith. Michael certainly could
    have handled the job. Facks (tm) are facts and Snuffy was outcoached
    again.
    
    Snuffy is a great recruiter, great teacher of fundamentals especially the
    passing game but when it comes to being a field general and making
    decisions or changes on the fly, he'd be better off using a Ojedia
    board then a trusting his own brainpower....
    
    mike

Let's not forget about Brad Daugherty, Sam Perkins, Joe Wolf and Warren
Martin.

This ignomineous group of All-Prep-Americans (tm) failed to win any title
between getting Freddy's pass in 82 through Coach K's gift ACC title
after all had graduated.

TTom

    Bob,
    
    I think it's pretty obvious this little "contest" thing of yours has 
    been a bomb.  Only 2 entries the last 2 days.  
    
    Whatsay you call the thing off now and save some embarassment.  When a
    horse breaks its leg, you shoot it.  When a note fizzles like this has,
    it should be ended quickly and (relatively) painlessly.
    
    Sincerely,
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

    >I think it's pretty obvious this little "contest" thing of yours
    >has been a bomb.  Only 2 entries the last 2 days.
    
    Could this be directly proportional to the number of people that
    could access the notes file the last two days?   Nah, that would
    be taking unfair advantage of access problems.
    
    The Wizard

Sometimes in life, you have to make choices...

The choice in this case is to spend time in this topic bashing
Dean (Old Scratch himself) and the DeanDome (the Gateway to Hell)
or to spend time preparing for the Sportsgate trial...

Guess that's why it's slow in this topic...

chainsaw

   � I think it's pretty obvious this little "contest" thing of yours has 
   � been a bomb.  Only 2 entries the last 2 days.  
    
    And *damn* good entries they were, too.   This note will stay open
    for as long as any SPORTS noter out there ever feels the urge to
    bash the Tar Heels.  Given that opportunity, I think you can count
    on this note outlasting your allegedly crooked contest.   After
    all, you had to give away a supposedly valuable prize just to get
    people to say nice things about the Tar Heels.   All I had to do
    was make a joke and this note will live forever.  Or at least
    until the next disk crash on OURGNG.
    
   � Whatsay you call the thing off now and save some embarassment.  When a
   � horse breaks its leg, you shoot it.  When a note fizzles like this has,
   � it should be ended quickly and (relatively) painlessly.
    
    Why should we ???   First of all, I cannot be embarassed. 
    Remember I work with ALL-IN-1 a lot.   We OA'ers have very thick
    skins and absolutely no shame at all.
    
    Besides, I would think *you* would have a little more to worry
    about right now than the new entry rate of *this* note.  After
    all, it is your tush that's under fire and about to be torched
    over in your allegedly crooked note.
    
    Enjoy Disney World, Soup.   You might as well get in a little
    fantasy fulfillment before you get hung out to dry in here.   Oh,
    and tell Minnie she needs to loosen up and enjoy life a little
    more.  Mick told me he's tired of waiting for her to decide if
    he's the right mouse for her or not.
    
    Bob Hunt

    
    What happened to that superior frontline last night Chris? Georgia
    Tech certainly didn't have the height or size to compete inside but
    buried them on the boards. Where's the motivation from the coach?
    
    mike

    North Carolina, reeling from the charges against its most loyal
    fan, ACC_Chris, can't concentrate on basketball and gets stomped
    by Georgia Tech 102-75.  The contnuing Chris Knorr saga could
    imperil the Heels chances of making the NCAA tournament.
    
    NAZZ

	I deserve those tickets because:



	I went to Duke.  'Nuff said.

		-- Cliff

    Wow Ketch, I'm starting to worry about this contest of yours.  Why,
    you've even gone and pulled a dreaded Dukester into this affair. 
    
    This things getting almost as ugly as Carolinas showing against Tech
    last week.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

    Speaking of ugly ACC_Chris, did you happen to watch any of that
    embarressment from the Garden last night?  You are indeed fortunate
    that you couldn't attend in person.  Next time the Hornets are
    scheduled to play the Celtics, sned UNC-Charlotte instead.  It will
    probably be a better game.
    
    As for those two "winners" you sent to the game in your stead, I
    very highly placed source in the press box noted that they didn't
    even know who the players were on the Charlotte roster!  Some fans
    indeed.  And how embarressing for you.
    
    NAZZ

       At least me and /Don woulda been rootin' for ol' Kelly T., right
    slasher?
                                                denny

    	I don't root for somebody who cries Denny.  It's not very manly.
    
    				/Don

�    	I don't root for somebody who cries Denny.  It's not very manly.


                        The boy who cried `Denny'??!!?

Mike JN

    During the first half of today's game between Wake Forest and Clemson
    Derrick McQueen of Wake Forest sufferred a serious injury that required
    he be taken from the court on a stretcher. Also, he was placed in a
    neck brace.
    
    I don't know exactly what happened but know that two other players
    sufferred less serious injuries. Watch the news for further details.
    
    Maj

    According to JoeG,  Clemson won by 9 points!!
    
    
    Nelly

    .46�    I don't know exactly what happened but know that two other players

    	McQueen suffered a concussion he'll be alright!...
    
    Clemson won by their hair...
    
    B.A.