Conference 7.286::red_sox

    Not a Free Agent but Gammons is reporting that the Canseco to Oakland
    trade for 24 year old pitcher John Wasdin is heating up.
    
   Mike

I hope that dumping the cost of Jose's contract is part of this.  Otherwise, 
I'd hope to get more than a pitcher with a losing record and a 5++ ERA.

Jim

  Well, it might not be that bad. Wasdin may come around. He was seen as a
prospect at one point and I believe this was his 1st full year pitching to big
league hitters. 

  George

    re .199
    
    Looking at what happened in the trades of Ruben Sierra and John Olerud,
    I would expect the Red Sox to have to pick up at least 80% of Canseco's
    contract.
    
    Dick

The Wasdin/Canseco deal is done. Jose can pack his hat and scram. All he has to
do is pass the physical and he's outa heah. The sox ate about $500,000 of his
salary. Wasdin was 8-7 last year with a 5.96 ERA. Jose says that Mo is next and
that he will not sign again with the Sox. Mo is in denial.

On another note, Troy O'Leary was signed to a one year, $1.1M contract, thus
avoiding arbitration. Heck, I'd suffer with $1.1M to avoid arbitration.

Jim

    If Jose passes his physical today him and 500k go the the A's for
    Wasdin.  Now for whatever it's worth the Globes new Sox beat writer
    Gordon Edes (where did this guy write before?) quotes the A's piching
    coach as saying that Wasdin was their best young pitcher who's 24 years
    old. Another AL scout said that the Sox made a good deal comparing
    Wasdin to Jeff Suppan. 
    Well just about all the malcontents are gone. The Sox seem to have
    quite a few young promising arms to go with a decent offense. 
    2-1/2 week to Spring training.
    
    mike

  I like Wasdin. He's a sinker ball pitcher who struggled in what I believe
was his 1st year in the majors but he's got some potential to grow with the
team which Jose does not.

  I'll miss Conseco, when he's hot he hits home runs like someone tossing down
pieces of popcorn but he's injured so much that you can't really build the
team around him. You always have to think of him as a part time player.

  George

I would have liked Jose to have stayed, but the way Duquette is running the 
team pretty much dictated him leaving.  I don't think there has been a Red 
Sox hitter since Jimmy Foxx that was able to post the big homerun numbers 
over weeks or months at a time.  Wasn't Jose's at-bats-per-homerun under 9 
for a couple of months at the star of last year?  Stunning.  He will be 
missed, but it is good for baseball to see the Bash Brothers reunited.

I was wrong about Wasdin having a losing record (he was 8-7), but how great 
of an arm can he have with a 5.96 ERA?  Yeah, he may turn into a serviceable 
pitcher, but we'll have to wait and see how this team plays.  I just don't 
want to hear Duquette say (again) that the manager did not have the team ready 
if they get off to a slow start.

Jim

                       <<< Note 650.205 by STAR::EVANS >>>

>Wasn't Jose's at-bats-per-homerun under 9 
>for a couple of months at the star of last year?  Stunning.  

  Yeh, but his total at bats were under 9 for several other months in recent
years.

>I was wrong about Wasdin having a losing record (he was 8-7), but how great 
>of an arm can he have with a 5.96 ERA?  

  Considering that he's a sinkerball pitcher in his 1st year against major
league pitching that alone wouldn't worry me all that much. Lots of guys get
lit up when they 1st pitch against big league hitters, especially if they are
not fast ball pitchers.

  George

    Baseball America does a projection of what each team's lineup might
    look like 4 years down the road. They had Wasdin as the A's #2 or 3
    starter. Not many rookie starters are successful right out of the
    minors. Look at the Met's fab 3 last year. There is a big differance
    between AAA and the bigs for pitchers. What really made the Red sox
    take notice of Wasdin was his performance in the Arizona league this
    fall when he came up with split fingered fastball and pitched real
    well. 
    Mike

    I wouldn't get too too worked up about Wasdin's prospects; I don't
    think he's anything that special.  The main thing is that the Sox
    were able to dump Jose, his 'tude, and most all of his remaining
    salary.  I didn't think that last part possible...
    
    glenn
    

    Oakland has called a Press conference to announce the Canseco deal
    
    Mike

<braces for more Duquette bashing/proclamations about Mo Vaughns future plans>

    SEE YA JOSE.......  Don't let the door hit ya on the way out.
    
    

     Red Sox sign P Jim Corsi to a minor-league contract

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


            The Boston Red Sox today signed free-agent pitcher Jim
            Corsi, who had been with the Oakland Athletics, to a
            minor-league contract and invited him to spring training.

            The 35-year-old Corsi posted a 6-0 record with three saves
            and a 4.03 ERA in 57 games with the Athletics last season,
            allowing 33 runs and 71 hits in 73 2/3 innings. The
            seven-year veteran has also pitched for Florida and Houston,
            primarily as a set-up man.

            Corsi spent the last two seasons as Oakland's right-handed
            set-up man. He has allowed 20 career homers against 1,341
            batters. Opponents hit just .203 against Corsi last season.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    
    Corsi will be a valuable addition to the Sox staff, IMO.
    
    
    CF

    
    
      PARADE IN OCTOBER!!!!!!!!11

	Hobson's back with the Sox! Errr.... why??? On either end???? 

	ESPN has stated that there was a deal in the works to get the Padres to
sign Greg Vaughn and then trade him to Boston. Now I hear that the deal might
not include Greg, but Ricky 'crybaby' Henderson. God I hope not!


Glen

	Red Sox sign Valintin to a 1 year deal. 

	Frye, Valentin and Neahring in the infield. Sounds cool. But I think we
all know there will be a lot of controversy once spring training starts as
Nomar will be added into the equation. My guess is if he makes the team,
Valentin will bitch because he will be moved to 3rd, Neahring won't be happy
because he is at 2nd (but he won't complain loudly to the press), and Frye
won't be happy sitting on the bench.

	And what are we going to do with Cordero?



Glen

    with 5 major league(?) infielders, Frye, Val, Naehring, Nomar, and 
    Cordero, I'll bet statistics show that at least one of them will always
    be injured during a season.  Val, Cordero, and even Naehring could 
    right-handed DH as well.     

    Having too many players is a good problem. Cordero probably ends up in
    the OF/DH/1B mix. Talk about versatile. He can be bad at a lot of
    differant positions. :^) Seriously though if he can find a position
    that he's average at I think he's probably the second or third best bat
    on the team. 
    The rest of the IF is up in the air. And don't forget Sadler who could
    be up in August or so.
    It must be Spring Fever but this team is intriguing me. It could be
    very interesting.
    
    Mike

    I personally think the 2b job is Frye's to lose. Cordero
    may have potential and all that neat stuff, but I'd like 
    to see him prove he win the 2b job away from Frye and be
    able to play good defense, and hit for as good an average
    and ob % as Frye demonstrated last year. As for the Nomar
    vs Val situation, it's the same thing. It's Valentin's to
    lose. A little competition between the guys is healthy,
    and it should sort itself out by the time the season opener
    rolls around.
    
     2
    b

    Williams has confirmed that his starting infield will consist of
    Naehring, Valentin, Cordero, and Vaughn.  According to Duquette,
    Cordero has been playing winter ball and has spent most of the time at
    second base, with a bit of first base thrown in.  Party line is that
    Cordero looks "comfortable" at second base. [Would you expect anything
    else.]  Asked if Cordero could possibly be moved to the OF if he wasn't
    cutting it at 2B, Duquette responded that "Cordero is a second
    baseman".

    
    Declaring Valentin the starting shortstop is the right way to go about
    it.  If Garciaparra takes it away, so be it, but this shouldn't happen
    in the back offices, but on the field.  I don't see Naehring moving 
    off 3rd under any circumstances except injury (having Naehring at 
    2nd instead of 3rd, or even at DH with Val at 3rd represents a large
    defensive dropoff).  I agree with the comment that depending on who
    catches the ball and who hits, one of Cordero, Valentin or even 
    Garciaparra (that'd be a tough sell versus playing in the field, but
    the guy does have some pop) could be the DH.  I don't think Reggie 
    Jefferson will come close to matching the numbers he put up in 1996, 
    so it wouldn't necessarily be against lefties only, either.  
    
    glenn
    

  I wonder if Duquette's comment about Cordero playing a little at 1st is
a hint. If that works out it might make more sense to have Mo as DH. Sometimes
players who struggle at other defensive positions find that 1st base is
within their defensive range.

  At any event it seems that eventually Mo will end up as a DH, especially if
he keeps packing on the weight. 

  George

    
    
       I think its so when Mo goes to the Yankkes after next year they will
    have a 1B.
    
    
    
    Chap

    
    
      As much as I hate to say it I think Chappy may have a point.

I can hear Duquette's rationale if and when Mo leaves - he strikes out alot, 
remember when he went o-fer-alot in the playoffs, hasn't played as well since
his MVP year, looks like his best years are behind him, remember when he 
whined when Kevin Kennedy left, we will have someone just as good to replace 
him, we are building a team to win a world championship here, ya-da-ya-da-ya-da.

Jim

    
    -1. I couldn't agree more with the very last part of your long sentence. 
    The only thing the Dead Sox are building is an intolerable level of
    mediocrity. I can't wait until they share a cavernous, carpeted dome of 
    snoredom with the only half decent(talent wise) team in New England
    (Patriots). 

    Boston Red Sox
    
    INSIDE PITCH 
    
    The Red Sox come to camp shorn of their two biggest marquee names,
    their veteran position player
    who had the longest tenure in a Boston uniform, and the manager who
    took them to the division title
    in 1995? And you call this progress? 
    
    Dan Duquette does. The general manager who has become the flashpoint
    for criticism both inside
    and outside the clubhouse insists this club should be sounder, despite
    the departures of Roger
    Clemens, Jose Canseco, and Mike Greenwell, and the firing of manager
    Kevin Kennedy. 
    
    The team's No. 1 goal coming into spring training is to ensure that it
    does not repeat the dreadful
    6-19 start in 1996, which eventually cost Kennedy his job and nullified
    Boston's second-half record
    of 49-28, the best in baseball. 
    
    Jimy Williams, who comes to Boston after an extended tour as Bobby
    Cox's third-base coach in
    Atlanta, is preaching the National League doctrine of pitching, defense
    and fundamentals to point the
    Red Sox in the right direction, but questions abound. The first centers
    on Williams: Can he win
    acceptance in a clubhouse in which the ousted Kennedy was very popular. 
    
    Will LHP Steve Avery, the free agent from Atlanta signed to replace
    Clemens as staff stopper,
    resemble the pitcher who won 18 games twice by the age of 23, or the
    pitcher who strained a side
    muscle and was dropped from the Braves' rotation last summer? How does
    the crowded infield
    situation shake out? John Valentin asked to be traded when Duquette
    couldn't promise him he'd be
    the shortstop. Will he move to second to make room for rookie Nomar
    Garciaparra? Will
    Garciaparra play second for the short term? What becomes of incumbent
    second baseman Jeff
    Frye? Or Wil Cordero, who played second in Puerto Rico all winter? 
    
    Can Shane Mack, back from two years in Japan, be Boston's everyday
    center fielder? How does
    the rest of the outfield shake out, among Troy O'Leary, Darren Bragg,
    Reggie Jefferson, Rudy
    Pemberton and Jesus Tavarez? Does Cordero wind up in left field? 
    
    Is Robinson Checo, originally signed (and released) by the Angels as an
    outfielder, as good as the
    Red Sox project, which is starting rotation material? Does young
    pitcher Jeff Suppan win a job in
    the rotation? Does Aaron Sele finally put it together? 
    
    Can Mike Stanley, who elected not to have neck surgery in the
    off-season still catch? Does
    Jefferson become the everyday DH, with Canseco gone? If not, who DH's
    from the right side?
    Cordero? Stanley? 
    
    The Red Sox are a far from settled club coming into camp, but could be
    considerably better than
    expected. Duquette has succeeded in stockpiling some young arms, there
    is depth in both the infield
    and outfield, and if Williams can cope with the demands of managing in
    Boston, the Sox could
    surprise. 
    
    WHERE/WHEN: Red Sox train at City of Palms Park, Fort Myers, Fla.
    Pitchers and catchers
    report Monday (Feb. 17); first workout is set for Tuesday (Feb. 18).
    Full squad reports Friday
    (Feb. 21), with first workout the next day. First game is Feb. 28
    against Boston College. 
    
    WHO'S IN CHARGE: Manager Jimy Williams (1st year, former third-base
    coach for the Atlanta
    Braves; 281-241 in three seasons-plus managing Toronto, 1986-89).
    Coaches: Bench coach --
    Grady Little; 1B coach -- Dave Jauss; 3B coach -- Wendell Kim; Hitting
    coach -- Jim Rice;
    Pitching coach -- Joe Kerrigan; Bullpen coach -- Herm Starrette;
    At-large coach -- Johnny Pesky. 
    
    TOP CANDIDATE TO SURPRISE: Pitcher Robinson Checo. The rookie from the
    Dominican
    Republic via Japan is a failed outfielder converted to pitcher who
    throws in the mid-90s. He could
    wind up in Boston's starting rotation. 
    
    TOP CANDIDATE TO DISAPPOINT: Pitcher Steve Avery. The club's biggest
    off-season
    acquisition has won just seven games in each of the last two seasons
    and despite claims that his arm
    is OK, he may have lost the form that enabled him to be an 18-game
    winner twice before his 23rd
    birthday. 
    
    NOTES, QUOTES, ANECDOTES 
    
    Checo was expected to arrive early (Feb. 10) but was a no-show,
    continuing his disappearing act
    he first unveiled during Dominican winter league. Said Mike Quade, his
    manager in winter ball: "It's
    easier to find a serial killer than Robinson Checo.'' 
    
    Saberhagen said he is encouraged by the way his arm feels as he
    attempts comeback from
    reconstructive shoulder surgery. "I think people in Boston will be
    surprised,'' he said. 
    
    Boston-area politicos sparked headlines last weekend with discussions
    about expanding Fenway
    Park into a 49,000-seat facility that would extend over Mass. Turnpike,
    but Red Sox officials said
    that's just one option they're considering, and an implausible one at
    that ... LHP Avery was among a
    half-dozen Red Sox pitchers who arrived early in Florida for workouts
    ... SS John Valentin signed a
    one-year, $4.75 million deal on Feb. 11, leaving the Red Sox with just
    two unsigned
    arbitration-eligible players: pitchers Tim Wakefield and Aaron Sele ...
    If Red Sox fans resent the
    departures of old standbys Roger Clemens and Mike Greenwell or
    short-termer Jose Canseco --
    or the $3-a-game increase in ticket prices -- they're not showing it at
    the box office. John Buckley,
    the team's executive vice president for administration, said that about
    95 percent of those holding
    season tickets had renewed by the Feb. 1 deadline, a rate that is just
    a hair less than last season. As
    of last week, he said, there were 40 cancellations, but typically,
    there are a few procrastinators who
    renew after the deadline. How many of those fans who canceled cited the
    Rocket's flight to Toronto
    as the reason they gave up their seats? "We had three,'' Buckley said. 
    
    QUOTE TO NOTE: "Our priorities are to stay healthy in spring training
    so we have the chance to
    select the best 25 players. I despise the word, `potential.' I'm not
    into potential. I'm into today, and
    today's game. I want the players to have individual goals. There should
    be a carrot out there for
    each one of them.'' -- New manager Jimy Williams, on the eve of his
    first spring training. 
    
    ROSTER REPORT 
    
    NOTABLE ARRIVALS: Manager Jimy Williams (from Atlanta); Pitching coach
    Joe Kerrigan
    (from Montreal); LHP Steve Avery (free agent signee from Atlanta); OF
    Shane Mack (former Twin
    back from two years in Japan); Relief pitcher Jim Corsi (free agent
    from Oakland); LHP Chris
    Hammond (non-tendered by the Marlins); RHP John Wasdin (acquired in
    trade with Oakland);
    RHP Bret Saberhagen (free agent from Colorado); OF Jesus Tavarez
    (non-tendered by Boston); C
    Tim Spehr (free agent from Montreal); LHP Takayasu Kato (Japan). 
    
    NOTABLE DEPARTURES: RHP Roger Clemens (signed as free agent with
    Toronto); OF Mike
    Greenwell (signed to play with Hanshin in Japan); DH Jose Canseco
    (traded to Oakland); Manager
    Kevin Kennedy (fired); RHP Stan Belinda. 
    
    NOTABLE NEEDS: Someone to step up and replace Clemens as a No. 1
    starter; a cleanup hitter
    to replace Canseco; a setup man for Heathcliff Slocumb. 
    
    ROOKIE WATCH: SS Nomar Garciaparra; RHP Robinson Checo; RHP Jeff
    Suppan; OF Rudy
    Pemberton. 
    
    CATCHER: Starter -- Bill Haselman (.274, 8 HR, 34 RBI). Backup -- Mike
    Stanley (.270, 24
    HR, 69 RBI). 
    
    Stanley's late-season neck injury and his terrible record throwing out
    base-runners (only 8 of 90)
    make him a likely candidate to cede starting slot to Haselman. 
    
    INFIELDERS: Starters -- 1B Mo Vaughn (.326, 44 HR, 143 RBI), 2B Wil
    Cordero (.288, 3 HR,
    37 RBI), SS John Valentin (.296, 13 HR, 59 RBI), 3B Tim Naehring (.288,
    17 HR, 65 RBI).
    Backups -- 2B Jeff Frye (.286, 4 HR, 41 RBI), SS Nomar Garciaparra
    (.343, 18 HR, 46 RBI in
    Triple-A), 3B Chris Donnels (.281, 20 HR, 53 RBI in Japan). 
    
    This is the way Williams says his club will line up coming into spring
    training, but the middle infield
    positions are up for grabs. Look for Cordero to be moved to the
    outfield and either Garciaparra or
    Valentin to wind up at second. A trade is possible. 
    
    OUTFIELDERS: Starters -- LF Reggie Jefferson (.347, 19 HR, 74 RBI), CF
    Shane Mack (.293,
    22 HR, 75 RBI in Japan), RF Troy O'Leary (.260, 15 HR, 81 RBI). Backups
    -- Darren Bragg
    (.261, 10 HR, 47 RBI with Red Sox and Mariners), Jesus Tavarez (.219, 0
    HR, 6 RBI with
    Marlins), Rudy Pemberton (.512, 1 HR, 10 RBI in 13 games with Red Sox). 
    
    Mack seems set in center field, but the corners are probably wide open.
    Look for Cordero to be
    moved to LF, with Bragg and O'Leary platooning in right and Pemberton
    looming as dark horse
    candidate. 
    
    DH: Jefferson (.347, 19 HR, 74 RBI), Stanley (.270, 24 HR, 69 RBI). 
    
    Jefferson will bid to win everyday job, but platoon against lefties is
    more likely. 
    
    PROJECTED ROTATION: LHP Steve Avery (7-10, 4.47 with Atlanta); RHP Tim
    Wakefield
    (14-13, 5.14); RHP Tom Gordon (12-9, 5.59); RHP Aaron Sele (7-11,
    5.32). Sele's spot is
    hardly a lock, and there are a host of candidates vying for a spot: LHP
    Chris Hammond (5-8, 6.56
    ERA with Florida); RHP Robinson Checo (4-1, 4.80 ERA in Japan); RHP
    Jeff Suppan (10-6,
    3.22 ERA in Triple-A). RHP Bret Saberhagen (DNP in '96, 141-100
    lifetime) hopes to be pitching
    by May. 
    
    BULLPEN: Closer -- RHP Heathcliff Slocumb (5-5, 31 saves, 3.02 ERA).
    Setup man -- RHP Jim
    Corsi (6-0, 10 holds, 4.03 ERA in Oakland. Left-handed specialist:
    Vaughn Eshelman (8-3, 7.08
    ERA). Slocumb said that anything less than 40 saves will be
    unacceptable this season. 
    
    MEDICAL WATCH: RHP Saberhagen, reconstructive shoulder surgery; hopes
    to be back May 1.
    C Stanley, herniated disk in his neck, says he's OK; RHP Wakefield,
    broken leg after being struck
    by a car while jogging in Florida; will be evaluated upon his arrival
    in camp but is expected to be
    ready for start of training. LHP Henry, DNP in '96, coming back from
    tendon transfer surgery in
    elbow, reported early to camp. LHP Kato, recovering from major knee
    surgery, reported early to
    camp. 

I get a kick out of all the Duquette-bashing.  As to the 3 big depatures
that everyone is whining about, one had half of his offensive output for
the season in one game (I exaggerate only slightly), one is chronically
injured, one-dimensional, unhappy, and aging, and the third was
drastically overpriced, unhappy, aging, and fairly unlikely to ever
return to his All-Star form.

On the other hand, Duquette is a tinkerer, trying every angle he can
think of to get talent into the organization.  He's a gambler, going
out and getting players he can get that are big question marks; but if
one or more of them turn out to be a big surprise, everyone will be
talking about Duquette the genius instead.

Personally, I'd rather suffer through a so-so season and know there's a
GM who is constantly striving to improve the team, than to suffer through
a so-so season with a bunch of aging, jaded deadwood and the status quo.

Dick

re: -1

What he said.

Jim

Yea, when I hear complaints about Duquette, two words pop into my head - 

Lou Gorman!

...makes me feel a little better.

Dan

    The "complaints" against dd are pretty specific: he saddled the
    team with porous defense and when the team led by Greenwell and Clemens
    rallied wouldn't provide the pitchers to get the wildcard.  Then blamed
    those  two.  If Gorman had done the same he'd be crucified.

Re .-1

Yeah, but who could of predicted the Red Sox' second half record would be
so good.  I still can hardly believe it myself.  They were clearly playing
well over their heads.  I think it's because they were very loose, with
no real pressure on them, and nothing to lose.  When they started climbing
into contention, the pressure mounted, and they folded.  Would some late-
season acquisitions have got them the wild card?  I don't know.  But they
would have been costly (mortgage the future for now), and I don't think
the Red Sox had what it took to advance even one round through the
playoffs.  It's like the Bruins (until this year) - push hard to make the
playoffs, keep the fans reasonably happy, but not really have the talent
to win.  With the expanded playoffs, baseball teams could fall into that
pattern as well.  I don't want to see the Red Sox mortgage the future
just for a wild card spot, unless they have a real chance of going all the
way.  Watching last year's postseason, the quality of play was quite
impressive, definitely a notch or two above what the Red Sox were
capable of, in my opinion.

Dick

    >The "complaints" against dd are pretty specific: he saddled the
    >team with porous defense and when the team led by Greenwell and Clemens
    >rallied wouldn't provide the pitchers to get the wildcard. Then blamed
    >those  two.  If Gorman had done the same he'd be crucified.
    Greenwell had one good game. He didn't lead anyone anywhere
    except for when he threw in the towel. The team at the beginning of the
    year couldn't do anything. People keep dumping on Cordero for the D but
    what about Valentin? Cordero at 2B is a gamble that still may pay off.
    Right before he got hurt he was the teams second best hitter and
    probably the best from the 7th inning on. He wasn't brought in by DD. 
    Getting Braggs and Frye stabilized the defense but DD doesn't get credit 
    for that? Last years team wasn't going anywhere in the playoffs. Would you
    rather they traded the future for a repeat of the Aguillara deal which was 
    made because they were contending? ( Rodriguez and JJ Johnson would really
    look good in Red Sox uniforms now). 
    
    Mike

    No I disagree, Greenwell supplied quite a bit of leadership on that
    team last year.  They missed him a lot when he was out and won when he
    got back.  Frye was a great pickup but that I'm sure was Kennedy. 
    Bragg was great but costly.  At the time of the Bragg trade it made
    sense to deal valuable pitchers for prospects.
    
    But once they got in it they should have done better to get secondary
    pitching and pushed all the way for the wildcard.  They had the best
    pitcher in Clemens and they had Vaughn.  You are being quite optimistic
    if you think a DD created year 2000+ team will have that kind of
    talent.
    
    In baseball any team with some effective pitching can beat better teams
    in a short series.