Conference 7.286::atarist

>    1.	Is there something significant about the number of bombs that
>	appear when a program crashes?

The number of bombs represents the 68000 exception number, for example,
2 is "address error" and 3 is "odd address trap".

>    2.	I use an extended formatter which allows around 840K bytes of the
>	disk to be used.  When the heads reach the 81st track, they kind of
>	clunk, like the mechanism is trying to ride up on something. Is this
>	normal? 

There are multiple vendors that supply floppy drives.  Some of these
drives cannot access tracks beyond their spec, which is 80.

>    3.	I've been told that a program that resides in the AUTO folder will
>	automatically run at machine boot.  If this is true, how does it work?
>	If this is false, how can I get a program to automatically run upon
>	boot (or reset)? 

It is true, but the program may not use VDI or GEM, only GEMDOS, Bios
and Xbios calls.  It works because the Rom's do it for you.  It runs the
programs in the order that they appear in the directory, which is rarely
the same as they are displayed by the desktop.  If you want to run a GEM
program this way, either make it a desk accessory, or use one of the
commonly available hacks.  (I don't happen to have any handy.)

>    4.	Any recommendations regarding a command shell?  I've tried gulam,
>	but it crashed the system.

Gulam is most people's favorite.  For money, Beckmeyer is reported to be
very good.  I use Mark Williams.

    .0.3
    	For the programs to be run automatically they have to have the
    extension .PRG (which is the extension for AES and VDI programs).
    The trick is that you install them as TOS or TTP files and then
    create a new desktop.inf file.
    
    	John

RE: .2 (admitting my illiteracy)

    Huh?  I don't have the faintest idea how to do what you just wrote. 

RE: another subject

    Is there a problem with transporting a 1040 without having a disk (or
    some type of retainer) in the disk drive?  I seem to have heard once
    that transporting a machine while leaving the disk drive empty was
    asking for disk trouble. 

-b

    I run programs from the auto folder all the time and I've had my
    ST for about six months, BUT I don't understand what John said in
    his last sentence either!
    
    So let me give it a go:
    
    John's first sentence -
        	"For the programs to be run automatically they have to have
    		the extension .PRG (which is the extension for AES and VDI
    		programs)."
    Is essentialy correct.  When you execute a program on the ST if
    the extension is PRG then the mouse cursor will be turned on and
    the text cursor turned off.  If the extension is TOS or TTP then
    the reverse happens, the mouse cursor is turned off and the text
    cursor is turned on.  I don't think you are precluded from using
    AES or VDI calls in a program with a TOS/TTP extension. Of course
    this is all aside from the point, so let me get to the point.
    
    To have a program run automaticly at reset or power on, place the
    program in the \AUTO\ folder of the drive you are booting from.
    The program has the following constraints -
    	It must not use GEM, my understanding of that is that it must
    	not use VDI or AES calls. It can use BIOS and XBIOS calls.
    
    	It must have a .PRG extension. Normally there is a compiler option
    	(switch) to generate a PRG file. I don't know if you can just rename a
    	TOS or TTP file to have a PRG extension and get it to work.
    
    You can have multiple files in the \AUTO\ folder. The programs will
    execute in the order they were placed in the auto folder (assuming
    you haven't delete any files, if you want to delete a file then
    delete them all and re-copy them all to \AUTO\).

    I have never heard of (or tried) installing \AUTO\ programs as John
    states in his note (yes I do know how to install programs) . Hopefuly
    John can clarify and/or elaborate and maybe we will all learn something
    new.
                                                  
    	Ray 

    Hi All,
    
    	There are 3 types of program files
    		*.PRG - OS sees these programs as AES and/or VDI programs
    			by default and will provide a mouse cursor.
    			However, you can install them as TOS or TTP
    			files by using the install menu option on the
    			desktop. To run a program automatically from
    			the /AUTO/ folder you have to use this option
    			whilst retaining the extension .PRG. You will
    			also having installed the programs have to save
    			the desktop. NB. you cannot use AES and VDI
    			calls in your auto programs as these features
    			have not been activated yet.
    		*.TOS - The OS sees these files as programs which require
    			a text cursor and so will not activate the mouse
    			cursor, but you can use any AES or VDI calls
    			in them and you will have to activate the mouse
    			cursor yourself via the appropriate calls.
    		*.TTP - Same as for .TOS programs but OS will give you
    			a Dialog box in which you can enter a text string
    			which your program will have to parse.
    
    	John
    

RE: .5

    Er, the INSTALL option?  On the desktop?  Umm - the only INSTALL that
    I'm aware of is INSTALL DISK DRIVE.  What heading is the INSTALL you
    refer to under? 

    Showing my ignorance,

-b

    To install a program, you must first click once on the file, ( it
    is now having the opposite color of the other files on the screen)->
    move the mouse to the right most pull down menu, and you will now
    be able to click on "install application" ( I have french boot ROM's,
    so I don't know what the english says)
    
    Next , a window asks you how you want it installed. Do that and
    dont forget to save the desktop. (refer to .5)
    Now if you "type out" the desktop.inf, you can see your specified
    file in there.
                                                  
    Hope that answers ..
    
    ����Martin

    I've only had my system for two weeks but my understanding is:
    
    INSTALL APPLICATION has nothing to do with Autostart on boot.
    You autostart on boot my simply moving the program to a folder named
    \AUTO\. If it's a GEM program you want to Autostart there is a program
    called GEMSTART which one puts in \AUTO\ and this fires up the .PRG.
    
    INSTALL APPLICAION allows one to double-click on a doc file and
    have an associated program automatically fire up with the doc file
    loaded. For instance, you can INSTALL a wordprocessing program to
    be tied to any data file with extension .STW - when you double-click
    the data file the STWRITER.PRG program comes up with the file already
    loaded and in edit mode.
    
    It would seem to me that you do one or the other; have the
    wordprocessor come up automatically on boot and then load the desired
    file, or come up with a desktop directory and double-click the data
    file.

    Hi All,
    
    	Re .8 :- Your understanding is incomplete, to activate a program
    at boot time from the AUTO folder it MUST BE A .PRG PROGRAM otherwise
    you are correct.

    So let me get this straight...
    
    In order for a program to startup on boot it must have an extension
    of .PRG which the system takes to mean it uses AES/VDI and provides
    a mouse. BUT, the program must NOT use AES/VDI since GEM hasn't
    started yet.
    
    If you want a .TOS or .TTP program to autostart then you rename
    it to have an extension of .PRG and put it in \AUTO\. Then, you
    use INSTALL APPLICATION and tell the box that it's a TOS or TTP.
    One then updates the desktop.inf file.
    
    A PRG program does not necessarily use GEM. right?
    
    I use a PD program called GEMSTART (or is it STARTGEM?). One puts
    this program in \AUTO\. It then reads a file called GEMSTART.INF
    which contains a filespec. This program can be a GEM using program.
    The system will then (eventually) autoboot the GEM program. The
    GEM program which you are trying to bootup with must not be in \AUTO\.
    

    Hi,
    
    	Re .10 :- YOU'VE GOT IT - John
    
    NB.		The order of placement of files in the /AUTO/ folder
    is very important as TOS runs them in that order (ie. GEMSTART should
    be placed in first if you wish to run a GEM program). If you get
    a new version of a boot program remember to destroy the /AUTO/ folder
    and recreate it with the order you wish as TOS only changes the
    filename in the directory when deleting a file (ie. the first character
    is changed to $E5).
    
    BTW.	The boot sector can be made executable if your image
    file is less than 400 bytes large. Some games you this facility.
    
    	John
    

    	
    	Hello All,
    
    	I have a rather novice question to ask...I have some games
    diskettes that will automatically load and run on powerup or reset,
    however if I boot up the Atari with the language diskette and then
    place the games diskette in the drive I can not get the .prg to
    run. What normally happens is I place the mouse cursor of the file
    name and double click, on certain files it will start reading the
    drive and stop, on others it reads the drive and then re-writes
    the window with a file name of AUTO. If I double click on this the
    program will still not run.
    
    	I gues my question is , How can I get a file that will load
    and run on powerup/reset to run from within the Desktop???
    
    Have I made myself clear?? I don't think so!!
    
    Jason.

    Many games, rather than using the ``Auto-folder'' mechanism described
    in the previous few notes, use the ``boot-block'' mechanism to start
    automatically when the system is powered-up.
    
    What this implies is that not all of the code which is necessary
    to start the application (game) resides in the .PRG file, if there
    even is one on the disk!  In this case, the boot sector of the disk
    will contain a loader program which reads in the rest of the program.
    
    There is no way to execute the boot sector from the desk-top, other
    than to hit the reset button.  Oh well.
    
    Steph

    Re. .12:
    You could be out of luck here. It's possible to put a small program
    into the ST's boot block (as noted here recently) and many games
    software houses use this technique to "auto-run" the program. Often
    the main program will actually check for evidence that the system
    was booted from this bootstrap program before commencing the game.
    If it appears that it wasn't, the program returns you to the
    desktop/hangs/bombs.
    
    Why? A crude form of anti-piracy device - or, as we say at the CSC,
    "securty feature". Any idiot (hi folks) can copy the PRG files, but
    getting the boot block's a little harder.
    
    Andy

    
    
    Other than by dragging a file within it's own drive and then renaming
    it when you get the conflict box. Is ther a more convenient way of
    renaming a file ???
    
    				Paul.

Select the Icon with a click
Select Show Information from Drop-down menu
Use delete key to wipe out old name
Type in new name
select OK or enter return

    
    
    
    Re -1
    
    Thanks. I didn't realise that the Show info box had the potential for
    data entry.
    
    					Paul.

    
    What about copying a file to a new filename on the same disk?
               ^^^^^^^
    

If it's to a different (sub)directory on the same disk than you can drag the
original file to the new location and then do the 'show information' operation
that was previously mentioned on the new file to change the name.

If it's to the same directory than after you attempt to drag the original file
to a different 'spot' in the window I'm pretty sure you'll see a conflict
dialogue box come up. Just be sure the cursor is in the new file name line
and type in a new file name and click OK (or whatever).