Conference misery::feline_v1

    Peter -
      If you have both male and females there you will have more
    cats in fairly short order as they will breed.  Try giving
    Kitty Angels a call - They are based in Dusntable/Tyngsboro.
    I believe these numbers are home numbers - 508 649-3013
    508 649-4681  (Joan and Sandy).
    
    The chances are excellent that Kitty angels will NOT have room
    for more kitties, but perhaps they can assist you in finding
    someone to help you catch these cats and then take them off
    your hands before they start having kittens.  If you have
    any interest in getting them neutered yourself, I have access to
    Friends of Animals low cost spay/neuter certificates.  It would
    cost you $20 to neuter a male and $33 to neuter a female at a
    participating vet's.  I should warn you however, that most vets
    are going to insist that the cats get their shots at additional
    expense before they'll neuter them.  Its to protect their other
    animal clients as much as to protect "your cats" (for lack of
    a better term).
    
    Where do you work?  Perhaps some of us could help with some food
    donations.
      Nancy DC

    Peter-
    
    Count me in...I would be glad to donate food...
    
    Lynne

    RE:  .0.  Peter asked that you send mail rather than replying here. 
    He's obviously not a frequent reader.  Just thought you might want 
    to send him a copy of your notes...
    
    

    Thank you for mailing your responses, and thank you for the support. 
    Lynne mentioned that too much milk is not a good thing, and that turkey
    bones can sliver.  I'll switch to water except for one small bowl of
    milk a day, and I'll make sure I remove the bones before giving them
    poultry.

    As far as catching the cats, this should not be difficult, since the
    tiger is quite affectionate, and the gray kitten is now willing to let
    me pet it.  I should call the cats "shy" rather than "wild."
    
    Last evening, I sat down on the ground with the milk next to me and the
    light off.  The tiger came right up, since she (note change in my
    choice of gender) is now comfortable around people (my nieces say they
    have touched all three cats).

    The gray kitten came up and finally got up the nerve to drink.  I was
    able to pet the gray kitten.  The tiger was standing on my leg, and the
    gray kitten cautiously climbed up and nuzzled the tiger.  I think the
    kitten was nursing. So, while I still don't know for sure, it appears
    that the tiger is the mother of the two kittens.

    The other tidbit which makes me draw this conclusion is the shape of
    the cats' tails.  The tiger has a long, thick, flat, tail, like a
    mature cat.  The two kittens have cone-shaped tails, like young cats or
    kittens.  My sister says that the kittens are smaller than her six
    month old kitten.

    This brings up a whole new set of questions.  If the tiger is the
    mother, then I would guess that she was once tame, since she seems to
    like people.  Could she have run away to have her kittens?  What is the
    likelihood of her returning to her former owner?  Could she have been
    abandoned by the previous owner between 5-6 months ago, and survived
    that long?  If I find someone who wants to take in the mother but not
    the kittens, will it be both possible and good to separate them?  Will
    the mother help to train the kittens if they are kept together?  It
    seems to me that I heard somewhere that house cats are litter trained
    by their mothers.

    Thank you for the offers of assistance; I may take you up on them as
    time goes on.  I have purchased the cheapest dry cat food I could find.
    Its label doesn't say "tasty" or "choice morsels," it just says
    "provides 100% of nutritional needs."  The cats eat it but do appear a
    bit disdainful. :-)

    I will call the numbers you recommended, and see if any of the shelters
    will sponsor me as a "foster pet-owner" while helping with placement of
    the cats.  Someone is coming by tonight to see the mother, but they
    were under the impression that she is a male.

    I forgot, someone had asked where I work.  I am at MET in Marlboro,
    except once every other week when I make a stop at PKO in Maynard.

    Its very likely that the mother was dumped when her owners discovered
    she was pregnant.  Or that she ran away when she was in heat and got
    lost.  Its quite likely that she has survived on her own this long.
    Cats are very good at surviving in the wild which is one reason why
    the overpopulation problem is so great.  
    
    Make sure that if this interested party agrees to take mommy that they
    intend to spay her.  Alot of folks want males because they think they
    don't have to neuter them.  If its someone from this file, you probably
    don't have to be concerned.
    
    Since you're so nearby - I'm in MR03 - Why don't I pick up some cat
    food for you.  Contact me directly and we'll set up a way for me to
    get you some food.
      Nancy DC

    Just wanted to let everyone know that I am the one who is picking up
    the female cat. I am picking her up tomorrow. I have already made an
    apointment with the vet to have her shots etc. for Friday morning. I
    will have her spayed soon after that. I had read in one of the replies
    here that someone had access to spay certificates. If at all possible
    could I maybe get one? It cost me $90 to get my other cat spayed.
    That's not including the vet bill for the shots etc. If no one can do
    that no problem, I will still take her to have it done. 
    
    Thanks Lee

    We're planning a transfer on Tuesday night.  I will invite all three
    cats into the house (they've been in once).  From there, I will box the
    kittens and mother separately.  The mother will go to Lee, and the
    youngsters will go to a shelter.

    It would be nice to keep the kittens longer, but I'm afraid that without
    the mother they will run off.  Keeping them inside is not an option, since
    my wife is recovering from a cold which happens to have started when the
    cats showed up.  (It may be a coincidence, or it may be the combination
    of cold and cat allergies which have made the cold so hard to shake).

    One other possibility would be to keep them in a shed on the property for
    a couple of days.  The shed is vacant because I think it is ready to
    fall down.  I doubt that it could act as a pen, though -- there's probably
    a lot of holes a kitten could take advantage of.

    I'm going over to CLASSIFIED_ADS now, to see if I can drum up a response
    there.  I would very much prefer to place the kittens, since I don't know
    how long a shelter could keep them.

    Peter

    Well, I've been calling and asking around about shelters.  Most of them are
    full.  I called the Sterling shelter and they said they would take them if
    I gave them $40.00 in cash.  Is this the standard procedure?

    I'm really torn about what to do.  I CANNOT keep these cats indefinitely,
    because I really do think that they are the cause of my wife's sinus
    infection (or at least a major aggravation).  But I hate to brig them to
    a shelter which says "well, they're too old and wild to place, but we'll
    keep them until your $20.00 run out."  Sheesh, I would think that it would
    cost them $20.00 just to put them under!  Does that mean they go the day
    I bring them in?!?!  Or do they save the cost of anaesthetic and just club
    the poor kitties to death, pocketing the money?

    Uh, oh... I think I've become attached to the little beasties...

    How cruel would it bee to leave the shed door open and let the kids run
    wild?  What is this about "certificates" -- is there any chance I can
    get them the basic shots and fixing which they require, without going
    broke in the process?  How likely is it that the kittens will just
    disappear if their mother is taken away?  It has been about a week since
    I started feeding them.

    Someone in this file knows about the certificates for low cost
    spaying and neutering;  hopefully she will see your note soon.
    Has your wife seen a doctor about her sinus thing?  If it actually
    has to do with the cats, there is a new medication out which
    controls a lot of allergies to cats without causing drowsiness.
    
    Yes, taking the mother away might possibly cause the kids to
    wander off.  This isn't to say that you shouldn't let the mother go,
    it's just a note that this may happen;  cats do grieve over a loss, and
    especially since the kids have only been coming to you for food for
    a week, they might not be bonded to your place yet.  My neighbor's cat
    wandered off after her kitten died, and took up residence on some
    people's porch a few blocks away.  
    
    Guys, is the Sterling shelter the one that there was a warning note
    about?  Some legitimate shelters do ask for a donation, however.
    

    In my opinion, the Sterling Shelter would do more harm than good for
    the kittens.  Send me mail for further info.
    
    I don't think it is cruel to let the kittens go in and out of the shed,
    if:
    
    1.  It can be made into a haven where they can keep warm in the cold
    weather.
    
    2.  The kittens are spayed/neutered just as soon as they are old
    enough.
    
    3.  You continue to socialize them, so if potential homes do manifest,
    they are used to people and being handled.
    
    4.  You are prepared to take financial responsibility for them until a
    home can be found.  This includes feeding, and any medical bills that
    might be incurred.  Being completely outdoor cats, they will most
    likely harbor fleas and intestinal parasites, which can kill if left
    unattended for a long period of time.
    
    If you don't mind taking the responsibility, then I see nothing wrong
    with keeping them in their environment as long as they are not
    continuing to inbreed and make more unwanted kittens.  I know you are
    prepared to do the responsible thing and I admire that.  I have rescued
    many feral/stray cats, and know how difficult it can be to find a
    shelter that has room for them [few do] or people who want to adopt
    them.  I ended up keeping one for myself, and his babies went to the
    Sterling Shelter.  This was 3 years ago, before I learned what I did.
    The mom cat had felv and had to be put to sleep.  It was very sad.
    
    
    --Roberta

    By the way, and I haven't read through this entire note string so these
    suggestions might have been mentioned:
    
    1.  You can obtain spay/neuter certificates by writing to or calling
    Friends of Animals.  I don't have the number offhand, but it is
    somewhere in this notesfile (keywords might have it).
    
    2.  Nancy DC has used the services of an organization called Animal
    Umbrella, to spay and neuter a group of feral kittens she rescued.
    

FWIW:

unless your shelters are very different from ours in Cal., feral kittens will
not be placed - they won't even try.  The kittens are sure to be destroyed
if you turn them in. 

However, it is probably more humane to have them destroyed than to allow them
to reproduce - keeping them feral if they cannot be placed is better than
having them running without any care, but please get them spayed or neutered...
else you will end up with a herd of cats, none healthy, all reproducing.
Kittens don't live very long when completely without care; unfortunately, cats
are often capable of reproduction at 5 months of age - it doesn't take long.

How much should I expect to pay for each of the following?

  - Worming -- is there something I can get at a store without supervision
    by a vet?
  - "basic" shots
  - felv tests
  - fixing.

If I do all of that, do you think I'll have a better chance of placing the cats
myself?  I'm still playing telephone tag with Joan of Kitty Angels -- she must
be pretty busy these days.  Also trying some other leads.  I'm quite busy, and
naturally disorganized, so progress is slow.

I have moved foam matting which the cats were sleeping on into a large
refrigerator box.  The opening in the box had sagged to about 3"; the other
end is still pretty spacious.  The cats like this, since it blocks the wind
and affords some level of security.  When I come out in the morning, the box
rocks back and forth and the three cats shoot out.  I think it is initially
fear at the noise of the door opening, but then they greet me.

I'm really torn.  The cats are cute, and I want to help them, but when I look
at the list I just made, I don't see how I can do it.  It would be nice if
there were somewhere I could "drop them off," where they would get the
necessary medical treatment, then either place them directly from there or
take them back as a "foster parent" until a permanent adopter shows up.

But it sounds like this is what everybody wants, and there are too many cats
to go around, or too few people...

I definitely want to get the cats fixed, so that the problem isn't compounded.

    A neuter with Friends of Animals is around $25; spay around $35.  These
    are "guesstimates."  This fee includes everything but shots.  A
    distemper and a rabies shot will run you anywhere from $7 to $10 each. 
    First, you have to call Friends of Animals to request applications for
    certificates and a listing of participating vets.  Some vets will not
    honor FOA certificates.  Next, you should narrow down the vet of choice
    and see if you can work something out for shots.
    
    As far as worming is concerned, I purchase Piperazine tabs for
    roundworms from Foster and Smith.  Administer one tablet for every 10
    pounds of body weight.  Droncit pills are excellent for tapeworms
    (which come from fleas).  It really isn't a good idea to administer any
    type of medication unless you are absolutely certain the cat needs it. 
    If you have the cats socialized, most likely you will see the worms. 
    Tapeworms show up as looking like specs of white rice around the anal
    area.  If a cat has a bad case of roundworms, it will usually throw
    them up.
    
    A felv test is expensive.  Will probably run around $20 per cat.
    
    Some folks will just do the basic shots and the spay/neuter, worm them
    once, and let them go back into their environment.  Then you can take
    it from there.  If potential homes come forward, then you can take them
    into the vet for further examination and attention.  I recommend you
    spend the money upfront for the felv tests.  It is not a good idea to
    let stray cats with felv roam at the risk of infecting other
    neighborhood cats who do have good, loving homes.
    
    I will try to find the phone number for FOA and post it here.  I know
    information has it if you want to call and check.
    

    Friends of Animals has an 800 number which you can get by calling
    1-800-555-1212.  I have it at work but I'm not there today.  You can
    order the spay certificates ($33 each) over the phone with a mastercard
    or visa.  I would suggest, however, that you wait one more day until
    I have access to my list of participating vets so we can make sure
    there's someone in your area to do the surgery.
    
    Getting them neutered and getting them their shots will definitely
    make them more adoptible especially to folks who already have cats.
    The FLV test is important too, but as noted it costs about $25
    per cat. I think the spay is the most important right now.  
    
    You might contact Framingham Humane.  They might be willing to handle
    the medical care if you agree to foster the cats and try to place
    them.
    
    As far as your wife's cold is concerned, I'm sure the cats didn't give
    her a cold, but they may have kicked off an allergic reaction that
    lowered her resistance.  There are VERY few diseases that are
    transmittable from felines to humans.  If it is allergies, Seldane
    and Histimal, both newer anti-histamines, are excellent.  Consult
    an allergist.
      Nancy DC

    Just a note to say thanks to Peter who is doing all he can for
    the three little kittens.  Peter...what goes around comes around
    and I'm sure the little kitties appreciate whatever shelter you
    can provide.   Your are wonderful for caring so much!!
    
    Plese keep us posted...I would be willing to provide a small
    donation to help in the expense of medical treatment or finding
    a no kill shelter that will take them.  
    
    Sandy (Tamba, Poco, Barkley, Chloe, Anges, Dewey, and Abby)
                 and two other outdoor strays I'm currently feeding!

    The phone number for the Friends of Animals is:
    
       1-800-631-2212
    
    I just got a certificate for a male cat, the cost was $20,
    unfornately I don't remember what it costs for a female.
    
    Judie

    Peter, 
    
    Keep an eye on your local paper. Out here in CA, there are shot
    "clinics" that are held in shopping center parking lots, etc.  They
    charge only a few bucks for shots, and they can do the Felv testing for
    ultra cheap too.  I think the last add I saw quoted something like $10
    for the Felv test, and the $5 for Felv shots, with Rabies and URI
    vaccines being about $2-3.
    
    Jo

    I will be going over to Peter's to give the kittens their first
    kitten shots.  So if you have anything you'd like to donate -
    food etc, then try to get it to me before Monday.  I'm in MR03.
    
    Peter lives in Lancaster and it just so happens that there's a
    vet, F Karotkin on route 110 (368-8363) who is listed as a
    participating vets in the FOA program.
      Nancy DC
    

    Peter-
    
    When the three shoot out of the box when you open the door,
    it is more likely that they know it's time for "food!".
    When I open my door, "Moochie" takes this as a signal to
    drop out of the truck and come to the door to eat.  She
    hides under the front grill in my husbands truck (I know,
    this drives me crazy, too, but she won't stop).
    
    Re .20 - Nancy, don't forget to post what the sexes are when
    you "find out!" :-)
    
    Lynne

    I just heard some news last night that I thought readers of this note
    would be interested in.

    The two kittens in .0, who went to Kitty Angels, were adopted this past
    weekend. The more feral of the two was adopted by a man who had been
    injured in an accident and will never be able to work again. He said
    caring for the kitten would give him "a reason to go on." 

    Isn't it amazing how things work out sometimes?

    Linda

    
    
    	OOoh!  I *love* endings like that!  =)
    

    I forwarded the news along to Peter since he was the one who brought
    the kittens in to Kitty Angels.