Conference misery::feline_v1

    
    	My vet was just telling me about having to re-do a spay
    	that another vet had done. He'd left an ovary behind
    	because he `couldn't get to it', and the cat had the same
    	problems you're descibing. If I were her, I'd get another
    	opinion. 
    
    	Sherry
    

    This HAPPENED to me. I had four females spayed at the same time.
    One (by the name of Paws) was just going into heat, but the vet
    said no problem, he could spay her anyway.
    
    About a month after being spayed, Paws gave every evidence of being 
    in heat again. I called the vet, and brought her there that night. 
    He agreed that it seemed as if she was in heat, and he kept her 
    overnight so that he could spay her again the next morning.
    
    When I picked her up the next evening, he told that me that, indeed,
    a small piece of tissue had been left behind before. He said that this
    hardly ever happens, but when it does, it usually happens when a
    cat in heat is spayed -- something about tissue being more swollen.
    
    Anyway, the second spaying was free of charge. I still go to that
    vet; I like the people there, and I do understand that not everyone
    is perfect all of the time. Also, they were really good about it:
    didn't make me feel like an idiot, didn't put me on the defensive,
    didn't flat out deny that such a situation could happen.
    
    I guess what I'm saying here is YES, a cat can be spayed and still
    go into heat -- if the initial spaying was not complete.
    
    Marleen 

    RE: -1
    
    Oh, by the way -- the vet told me that the only way to tell for
    SURE if anything was left behind was to actually operate again.
    But we were both pretty sure that she was in heat; I mean, the noise,
    the rubbing, the tail-to-the-side, and all that stuff is pretty
    hard to mistake.
    
    Marleen

    yes, to all of the above.  I guess that's why it's a good idea to
    bring the girls in at 6 months and NOT to let them go through their
    first heat.  It makes for a much cleaner spay when the vet can see
    exactly what he/she is looking for to remove!  I got Malinka,
    Katenka's sister/littermate, when she was 11 months old - she kept
    going in and out of heat every other day - I couldn't keep weight
    on her, she weighed only 4 lbs!  So, I managed to get her up to
    5 lbs (I felt it would be safer surgery to have a bit of weight
    on her because she lived outside her first year of life), and then
    took her in (she was IN heat).  That was a year ago May/June - she
    still cycles today - I can always tell when she is 'cycling'  -
    it's nothing like before she was done, but the tissues are so
    engorged  that landmarks are very difficult for the vets to identify,
    and pieces of tissue get left behind.      
    
    If the cat was spayed only a month or two ago, I'd wait another
    short while to see if it subsides - it took Malinka a few months
    to cool down - but then, each cat is different - guess this isn't
    very much help.  My Sasha also has a little bit of something left
    behind - or I've always thought so - she, too, shows signs and 
    symptoms every now and then and has for about 9.5 years !!  very
    mild, though.
    
    E.T.

    Thanks, all, for the info.
    
    I know that one or two of my friend's cats went into heat prior
    to the spay (around 6-7 months old)  but I can't remember which
    ones.  Have a call into her to find out.
    
    Thanks for the replies.  She has another call into her vet to insist
    something be done.
    
    
    /Roberta
    

    Does she really want to go to the same vet again?
    

    Well, I couldn't find a more appropriate note - I just wanted to
    put this in some note associated with spaying.  I saw this interesting
    little statistic on my cat calendar:
    
       "A breeding pair of unaltered cats and their offspring can
        produce 73,000 kittens in two years!"
    
    No there's a sobering thought..........

    That doesn't sound quite right....I thought it was 9,000 in ten
    years based on a litter size of 4 kittens and 2 litters per year.
    ??????
    Sandy
    

    Those figures came from the San Francisco SPCA.  I thought it
    sounded pretty amazing too but maybe they weren't placing such
    limitations on their figuring.  
      You know, SF has better weather so the cats may 1. have many
    more litters than in the colder climates and 2. more of the
    kittens may survive to breeding age.  
      That would have a big impact.
    

    I would have though that the number would have been a power of 2.
    
    Deb

I find it irresponsible when organizations throw numbers around.  It 
doesn't add to the organization's credibility.

re: 73,000 in two years from two cats

This is impossible.  Even making clearly absurd assumptions, I could only 
get up to around 12K cats.

1.	Gestation time is approximatly 2 months, so there are only 6
	litters theoretically possible per year. 

2.	Suppose you picked a litter size of 10, and suppose you further 
	assumed every kitten lived.

3.	Suppose you further assumed a kitten would be sexually mature at 6 
	months.

4.	I'm *not* going to further assume that every kitten is female.

Then, after:
	2 months, +10 						= 12 cats
	4 months, +10						= 22
	6 months, +10						= 32
	8 months, +10+50					= 92
	10 mon.,  +10+50+50					= 202
	12 mon.,  +10+50+50+50					= 362
	14 mon.,  +10+50+50+50+250				= 772
	16 mon.,  +10+50+50+50+250+250				= 1432
	18 mon.,  +10+50+50+50+250+250+250			= 2342
	20 mon.,  +10+50+50+50+250+250+250+1250			= 4502
	22 mon.,  +10+50+50+50+250+250+250+1250+1250		= 7912
	24 mon.,  +10+50+50+50+250+250+250+1250+1250+1250	= 12572 in total

Ray

    I don't know how long the gestatin period is, and so on, so fudging that
    and assuming half the offspring are female, consider the number of female
    cats at each time period n (half year):
    
    n = 0     1 female cat
    n = 1     3 female cats (original plus her two female offspring)
    n = 2     9 female cats (previous three plus 2 female offspring apiece)
    n = 3     9 + 2*9 = 3*9 = 27 female cats  (27 = 3**3)
    n = 4     3*27 (= 3**4)
    .
    .
    n = k     3**k female cats.
    
    For n = 10 (five years), this would be 3**10 = 59049 female cats plus an
    equal number of male cats.
                               

    Perhaps a note to the San Francisco SPCA is in order here.  I
    didn't put this in to anger folks.  Perhaps its a typo.
      But its good to know you're thinking  ;-)
      Nancy

    sounds like Fibinachi (sp?????, it's been years) at work here.
    
    E.

    Maybe they are taking into consideration the number of kittens the
    male offspring can reproduce too... (the male cat does have something
    to do with it, ya know!  8)
    
    Even if we can *only* assume 12000 cats...that's still a d*mn lot
    of cats!

Well, assuming some offspring are males - who DO mature at approx. 6 months...
and assuming the male could find ready females (all too easy - regrettably),
you can get to 79,xxx - after all, I imagine a male is willing to service
multiple females each day - and willing to service females every day.....
that's a lot of kittens.

I've also seen this stat - it seems to be common.