Conference misery::feline_v1

    Ali, I have two tortoishell cats and I find them to be shy but sweet.
    I never heard of them not being friendly.  As a matter of fact I
    use to think I wanted more of them, unfortunatly my husband thinks
    six cats are enough.
    
    Cindy

    My Katie is also a tortoise-shell.  The last time I took her to
    the vet for her shots, the vet said she was very aggressive.  (In
    other words, she didn't enjoy the experience *at all*).  That
    is indeed, true, since she seems to 'make the first move' 
    (i.e. 'put up your dukes') whenever another cat comes near our 
    house.  Even while playing with her, she occasionally lets me 
    have it with her teeth/claws..ouch!!!
    
    On the other hand, she can be *very* friendly and affectionate 
    (especially when sleepy/hungry).  
    
    I've had her almost 2 years and have become very attached, even
    though at times she can be a little fighter.

    The lovely Pip is a tortie on white and is one of the sweetest cats
    I've ever met. She is a bit shy at first, but just tell her that
    she is pretty and you've made a friend for life.
    
    Deb

    According to our vet the tortie involves an extra chromosome.  Don't
    remember the combination, but it's either xxy or xyy, whichever is
    the combination is that causes sociopaths in humans!  We had a tortie
    once, and she was very sweet, especially to our dog.  But she was
    also crazy.  She was extremely flighty, and at the slightest sign
    of stress would climb drapes, pee on the floor, climb the walls
    (literally, we still have the claw marks) or something equally
    bizarre.  We loved her dearly, but having several other pets was
    too stressful for her and we finally decided to find her a quieter
    home, where she now leads a quiet, happy existance.  I still think she
    was one of the most beautiful cats I've ever seen, and if she was
    an only cat, so her stress level would be low, we never could have
    given her up.  
    
    I don't know where my vet got his information, but the tortie (calico)
    gene is sex-linked, and his theory sounds plausible.  I'd be interested
    in any factual evidence on this if anyone has any.
    
    Karen, Tristan and Tenzing.

    I believe Nippa is a 'Tortie' (thats what thet called her @ the
    Angell Memorial) is that short for tortoise shell?  If thats the
    case then that would explain her "skitzo" behavior.  
    
    And all this time I thought she was suffering from PMS....

    I just have to ask ...........  what is a tortoise shell cat?  I
    HAD thought it was the whole cat being a mixure of light orange
    dark orange/brown like a tortoise shell comb.  Reading this I am
    wondering about the connection of them to calico cats.  Or was the
    connection merely the fact that both are due to genetic "flukes"?
    
    Cathy

    re:4
    
    That sounds like a tortie to me!  I hear tell it's the RED gene!
    
    My Lara - there are no words to describe this brat - while I
    was in Canada this past weekend, so removed the suspended
    ceiling from the cattery - need I say more?  This cat gives
    me worms!!!!!!!
    
    E.T.

>    I just have to ask ...........  what is a tortoise shell cat?  

According to the poster in our vets, they are dark brown or black with red or
ginger markings.  If you want to breed them, you have to make sure you mate a
tortoishell female with a male who is either black, brown or red (I think those
were the colours, but don't quote me).  So, if my recollections of school 
biology are right, tortoishellness must be carried on a female chromasome.  Are
tortoishells always female, I wonder?

Re: calico cats, I too would be curious to know if tortoishells
are the same as calico cats.  I've often read about calico cats in this 
conference, and wondered what they are.  Maybe that's why I was surprised to
find no previous notes about tortoishells....

Going back to their characteristics, Tilly is certainly quite skittish.  
When other cats threaten her territory, she comes bounding in through the cat 
flap, squealingk noisily, while Finbar, who is much smaller, stays around to 
confront them.

Ali

    Calico - mostly white - there should be white tummy, chest, legs,
                            patches or spots of color (red and black).
                            Some color on the head,ears and tail as long
                            as there is a white band between the neck
                            and body.
    
    I think that is the standard (or as close as I can remember) for
    CFF.  Other associations may differ as to the Calico definition.
    
    If any of you have seen either my Katenka or Victoria - Katenka
    is a Calico Tabby (because of the spotting & stripes within the
    large spots) - Victoria has a very small amount of penciling on
    her face - but her tail is very ringed making her a Calico Tabby
    also - if either cat had no tabby markings they would be Calico.
    
    E.T.

    I believe that a calico is also called, in some countries, a 
    tortoishell and white, which accurately describes how they look.
    I think that they are genetically very similar.
    
    Karen, Tristan and Tenzing.

    Knowing that my two are calico (three colors) when I took Autumn
    to the vet this past Saturday the female vet who had never seen
    Autumn before was saying what a pretty cat and I ask if you would
    call her a tortoise shell and she said yes.  Autumn is black with
    tan and orange running through her.  So it sounds like they are
    calico whose coloring is tortoise shell.  Does this sound fesible?

    Yup - there are many, many names - Tortie and white, Torbie and
    white, Caliby and white, etc.   Actually, a Calico Tabby is a
    Torbie and white - depending on which is more predominant -
    the calico or the tabby.
    
    I find it easier to just say Calico Tabby when I describe Katenka.
    
    Generally, a tortie is called a tortie when the red and black
    sort of merge together and are not separate spotches or patches
    or spots of color.
    
    

    Isn't the primary difference between a tortie and a calico that
    the tortie's coat was "brindled", while the calico has splotches?
    Also, if you look at a tortie's face, there is a straight line down
    the middle where the color patterns change.
    
    Deb

    If "brindled" means that the colors are merged, yes.  If a cat
    has splotches or patches - it's a patched tabby.  separate spots
    or large separate areas of color with mostly white is a calico.
    
    Maybe a breeder who knows standards better than I could define
    better than I.

    yes, that is how I define brindled. My cat's groomer is the one
    that explained the difference (and is the first one that I heard
    to use the word "brindled").
    
    Deb

    Hang on, are you *sure* that "calico" and "tortoise shell" are
    not two terms for the same beast?  At home in the U.S., I'd never
    heard the term "tortoise shell" used. Here in the U.K., friends
    routinely ask "What do you mean, calico cat? Are you referring to 
    a tortoise shell?" This has led me to assume that I'm tripping
    over just one more linguistic difference. [I get especially
    suspicious when I read or hear "tortie" -- shortening words like
    that is distinctly British... last week a friend gave me a 
    "pressie" (translation: "present").]
    
    My "callie" (hee hee, if you can have a tortie, why not a callie?)
    Eleanor [the sweetie from note 1811 who's been wandering the woods
    of New Hampshire and has just been located] has the *most*  friendly,
    loving, affectionate personality.  I figured that this was *because*
    she's calico. Now I read that some calicos are "off the wall." Hmmm...
    I guess that there can't be any hard and fast rule about genetic
    coloring deciding personality.
    
    Anyhow, one thing I know, all calicos are female, as
      the gene that governs calico marking is a sex-linked gene. 
    
    -Barbara                               

    RE:.16  Barbara not all calico's are female.  There are male calico's
    but very few.  When I first got Autumn I asked the vet what sex
    it was and he said without looking that it was most likely female
    and yes she was, but he did state that there are males and that
    it is a generic mixup.  My sister-in-law has a male calico. 
    It's rare but there are some.

    True True !!  My friend also has a male blue cream & white - the
    blue cream and white variety is sometimes called a dilute calico.
    Sorry to add more stuff!!  I have a hard time describing colors
    - next time any of you are at a show and I'm there, either watch
    a ring or ask me and I'll try and point out a tortie.  When you
    see a good example of a tortie, you can really see the difference
    between that and the calico, callie, caliby, etc. !!  colors & 
    patterns, colors & patterns - we drive each other crazy at shows
    trying to determine "exactly" what are cats are - the truth is
    that they are mixed breed cats, which doesn't help the problem!!
    
    E.T.
    

    as I understand a description of a tortie -there is a line down
    the face where the colors change, i.e. it looks as if the cat's
    head has been divided in two from between the ears down the front
    of the face and right down the nose- by an invisible line - with the colors
    changing right at the line. On my tortie that invisible line extends
    down the back (altho her colors on the back are mostly silver/white and
    the line (or color change) is very hard see. However, on her head
    it is VERY easy to see the line. The colors blend into each other
    on either side of the line, BUT the blending stops right at the
    line and there is a clear-cut color change at the line.
     
                
    

    Bailey is a Blue-Cream Torbie (according to some of the cat show
    judges I've talked to).  This is a dilute version of the tortoiseshell,
    a mix of gray (blue) and tan (cream).  She has some very light tabby
    markings (hence the torbie description [tabby + tortie]).  She is
    also what they call "brindle".  I'm not really sure what that means
    but I'm told its popular with the judges in England.  She does have
    an interesting little dividing line of color under her chin, one
    side is all cream the other is all blue but this is the only place
    you can actually see a distinct division of color.
    
    According to some of those same judges Bailey really should be called
    a Cream-Blue since she is mostly cream but that version of the color
    is not an official color class.
    
    The funniest thing about this color is that in certain lighting
    she sometimes looks pink.
                                   
    Jan

    I have (what I think is...) a tortoise shell.  She does not look
    calico AT ALL!  She is a mixture of charcoal, ginger, grey and black.
    Her brother from the same litter is jet-black.  So I guess the genetic
    background is right for torties.  They are both longhaired.  Are
    everyone else's longhaired or can they be either?  Her colors have
    no demarkation between them, except on her face.
    
    Our tortie is very shy but loveable.  She almost seems nervous
    sometimes, because she craves affection, but doesn't want to be
    approached.  WEIRD!!  She is quite talkative.  Her voice is quiet,
    but she seems to carry on lulled but lengthy conversations in a
    lovely melodic voice.  She is also extremely dependent on her
    littermate.  She needs to know that he is nearby ALWAYS, and
    contiunally nudges him for reassurance.  She also has HUGE eyes,
    and is extremely inquisitive.
    
    Does this sound like your tortoise shell kitties?
    
     

    From the "Encyclopedia of the Cat", by Angela Sayer...
    
      "Tortoiseshell is the name given to a cat with two colours in the
    coat, patches of black and red.  The name is often shortened to
    Tortie, or if the cat has white patches and so it tri-coloured,
    it is called a Tortie-and-White.
      The dilute version of the Tortoiseshell has a mingled or patched
    coat of palest grey and cream and is known as Blue-Cream.  There
    are Chocolate-Cream and Lilac-Cream varieties of some breeds as
    well."
    
    In another section of the book it clearly shows the Calico as being
    the name in the USA for the Tortie-and-White.
    
    Also, the split of color down the nose is desired in a show cat,
    but is not necessary for the cat to be a tortie, and many torties
    appear to have three colors, black, gold and red, but it's really
    genetically only two colors.
    
    Hope this clears some things up,
    Karen, Tristan and Tenzing.

    yes, they can be long or short haired. My Pip is a small cat, 4.5
    lbs, and is I call  an "ultra-long hair". She has some hair that is
    over 4 inches long (and since she is so tiny, the hair just appears
    that much longer).
    
    Deb

    Both of my kitties are tortie.  Mandy is Orange and Black with white
    - my vet said she is a tortie with white.  And Koko is black with
    ginger patches and one tan patch - my vet just called her a tortie.
    They are both extremely affectionate and loveable - and of course
    beautiful.
    
    Suzanne

    I have a tortoise shell siamese; male.  He is beautiful!  (And I
    am not just being prejudice.  He is predominately white with orange
    points and paws.  As he gets older, he is becoming more orange.
    And he has the most beautiful blue eyes you have every seen.  He
    is very proud, sleek, and sometimes thinks he is panther!  He is
    also a monster; and hyper!!!  He can be very affectionate when he
    wants to be.  I have never seen him mean (unless you count the time
    I stepped on his tail!).  He likes to give you the pleasure of his
    company when you least expect it or want it; never when you want
    it.
    
    His mother was a tortoise shell (yes, like a comb), and his father
    was a sealpoint.  From what I have been told, only the females have
    this tortoise shell and the males usually come out the solid color.
                                             
    I also have a female sealpoint from another litter.  I had originally
    thought that I wanted to let them have one litter just to see what
    they would be like, but my husband is giving me a hard time about
    this.  He says he likes cats, but only when they are very well-behaved
    and two siamese who are 9 months old can get a LITTLE active!! 
    He is also anticipating spraying males and yowling females when
    Delilah comes into heat.  Every time they play, he is sure they
    are acting like animals!!  (Heaven forbid that Samson or Delilah
    would ever think they are animals!)  So I am just about to give
    in and have them altered.  Although I have to admit that I was looking
    forward to one litter.                   
    
    We also have a running battle regarding inside vs. outside cats.
    I won't let my babies out because I know there are other animals
    out there that would injure them and although we live in what is
    considered the country, cars travel very fast and on the couple
    of occasions that they have managed to sneak past an open door,
    they have headed right for the road.  My husband believes that animals
    were not meant to live inside!!!  I will really hold my ground on
    this one, though.  We have lost too many cats to that road.
        
    Well, guess I have rambled on enought about my tortoise shell. 
    I just can't imagine Samson every being mean.
        
    Bev 
        
        
        
        
        
        
        

    

    I once had a tortoishell named Quizickle. She had four double paws
    and the most beautiful eyes I've ever seen on a cat.  She was
    affectionate and everyone that met her fell in love with her.  She
    was a great mouser, friend, companion and comfort.  I lost her to
    feline leukemia twelve years ago when she was 5.  She had become
    quite attached to my mother and vice versa.  The day we had to put
    her down, I cried, my mother cried and my sister cried....I even
    think my father shed a tear, but not in front of us.  I swore I
    would never get another cat....but about six months later, I went
    to Spags with my sister and met Schnitzel.....I love her dearly,
    but still have a special place for Quizzy in my heart and do think
    of her often.
    
    P.
    

    A judge at one of the cat shows I went to a few months ago said
    he thought tortoiseshell cats were like a candy bar...
    
         50% sweetness  and
         50% nuts
    
    Describes my dilute tortie to a tee.
    
    Jan

    JAN:
    The 50% comment is great!  Describes my Siamese tortie perfectly!
    
    

    Jan, I agree 50% plus 50%  !!  My Lara is a real nutty bar !
    
    E.T.

    Have to agree.  Although sometimes I think Samson leans more to
    the nuts than the sweet side of the candy bar.
    
    BJ

Tortoishell and Calico are *different*

    I am the proud owner of a 2yr old tortoise shell, and she is gorgous.
    I have never seen such big, alert eyes, they are like saucers!
       
    She is an extremely loveable cat and very affectionate, definitely
    not a mean streak in her.
    Although, she is quite nervous at times, more so than our other,
    non-tortoise shell cat.
    If any one moves quickly or without warning she really jumps, it's
    actually quite comical to see her, one of these days I reckon we're
    gonna have to go and retreive her from the flat upstairs - if y'know
    what I mean !!
    
    Fran and Rusty
    
    

    re: .32 I don't think the color has anything to do with it.  Isis,
    all black, is still like that too at age 5.  I we move to fast she'll
    cringe or jump and we NEVER hit her.  I dont know where it comes
    from.  I just figure she's a little more timid than the rest.