Conference misery::feline_v1

    Have you tried calling your local Animal Control Officer, or Humane
    Society.  If they won't actually pick up the animal for you, they
    may have some good suggestions.
    

    Can you feed your outdoor kitty in the house?  Perhaps the other
    cat will be less likely to stay around if the source of food is
    gone.  (Cleaned up, I bet he will be a beauty, though. Hope he finds
    a home thru the shelter.)
    

    re:  .2  CIRCUS::KROLLING
    
    
    Shawhseen, my outdoor kitty, cannot be let inside at all.  I very
    reluctently "banished" him to the outdoors two years ago.  Before
    that, he was a constant sprayer.  He was also a very nurotic kitty.
    I believe the reason for it was that he was the only male in a house 
    with my whole females (up to 7 at a time).  Actually it's not all
    that bad for him.  My garage is attatched to the house and it is
    quite warm in there even in the dead of winter.  I know this because
    his water dish never freezes (and my heating bill is never
    reasonable!).  He has an enclosed house in the garage with a bed in 
    it (which is where the stray cat had him cornered the other night)
    and I feed him and put fresh water out for him each day.  He can
    come and go as he pleases thru the kitty door I have in the garage
    door.  Once he started living out there there was a tremendous change
    in his personality.  He became much more self assured and very
    outgoing.  Every day when I get home he is waiting for me.  We have
    a cuddle-fest and play fetch for a while.  He shows no interest
    in getting back inside.  The one time he did come in, he cautiously
    stood in the doorway and sniffed the air a few times.  Then he turned
    his tail to the door, sprayed it, and made a mad dash for under the
    china cabinet and wouldn't come out.  When I finally *did* get him
    out (with him hissing and scratching) I found that he had pooped
    under there.  
    
    When I first saw the stray cat, I did in fact consider that I might
    now have two outdoor kitties.  I fear that is impossible, however.
    He is a full adult and is absolutely wild.  The few times I was
    able to get anywhere near him, he has hissed and spit up a storm.
    He actually attacked me one time when I went out to the garage to
    put out the trash.  I didn't know he was hideing in the corner behind
    the barrels.  I guess he felt cornered, so he confronted me all
    puffed up, back arched and a cry that could best be described as
    a scream of terror.  He really gave me a start!   
    
    What to do, what to do!
    
    Marion

    Marion,
    
      I live in Billerica, MA.  A very nice lady helped me with a similar
    situation about six months ago.  Her name can be found in the Lowell
    Sun under the Lost and Found section.  If you can't find it write
    to me and I'll dig it up for you.  The name on her ad escapes me
    now, but it has something to do with adopting Kitties.  She lives
    in Tyngsboro or Dunstable.  Hope this helps....I know what you and
    your poor Kitty is going through. 
    
    John Stewart
    
      If you need to write me, my node is ISTG::STEWART
    
      Again, good luck!

    Marion -
    
    What a sad sorry to read.  Your poor outdoor cat is being beaten
    up and the stray cat is probably starving and fighter for his life.
    The stray knows no other way to survive.  He's probably been fighting
    all his life for food/shelter and warmth.  Sometimes as much as
    we hate to, we need to call the Animal Shelter and have them come
    out and capture this poor fellow.  The humane thing to do is to
    not let him starve, freeze etc. anymore.  This cat could very well
    be carrying diseases which your cat will catch.  You need to protect
    your cat as well as try to help this poor soul.  
    
    Try not to scare him away so someone else will have the problem,
    take it upon yourself to stop this suffering and put this poor fellow
    out of his misery.  (Please no flames, sometimes it's the HUMANE
    thing to do).
    
    I have owned many strays and taken care of them for the rest of
    their lives, but a cat born in the wild is not an easy cat to turn
    into a pet.  Some can - some can not be adopted.
    
    I'm sure you'll know what's best, in the meantime make sure your
    outside cat has not wounds that will get infected by the bites of
    the wild cat.
    
    Good Luck-
    
    Dee
    

    He smells terrible because he hasn't been altered.  He is dirty
    because there is no one to take care of him.  Might it be worth a
    try to put a lot of food for him out (in the garage, so other wild
    ones aren't attracted) and see if you could tame him?  He might be
    less aggressive to your cat if he knew food was available for both
    of them.
    

    
    RE:  last few
    
    First of all, thanks for the suggestions.  You are really helping
    me think this thru.  Keep 'em comeing!
    
    RE:  .6   CIRCUS::KOLLING
    
    Since my kitty is a nibbler, there is always food out there for
    him (and now them).  I just think that these two cats have 
    reached an impass.  Shawshie (my guy) wants this cat OUT OF *HIS*
    GARAGE, and the wild critter will do what he needs to do to get
    food.
    
    RE:  sad story
    
    You bet it is!  It makes me angry to know that the reason this wild
    cat even exists is because a number of people have acted in an
    irresponsible way.  It prompts me to say (shout intended) PLEASE!
    IF YOU LET YOUR MALE *OR* FEMALE CAT OUTSIDE - *GET* *IT* *FIXED*!!!
    
    RE:  animal control officer
    
    Gosh, that's a tough one!  I hear what you're saying.  I feel so
    sad for the poor creature knowing the suffering he must go thru
    just to survive.  His wild and agressive nature speaks to that!
    I just *caaaaaant* bring him in knowing that he will be put down.
    I need to come up with a more creative solution than that, and I
    WILL, GOSH DARN IT!
    
    I think that step one is clear:  Get him cleaned up, give him shots
    so I won't have to worry about my guys catching anything from him, 
    and get him fixed.  Perhaps Shawshie would like him more if he 
    smelled better :^).
    
    Marion

    Re: .7
    
    yeah, Marion!
    
    Just getting him fixed may help some of his aggressiveness.  If
    time and love aren't enough to do the rest, you might also ask your
    vet about a one-time shot of some hormone (female?) -- it did wonders
    for Pussycat who was in a feral state when he came to me.
    Maybe the vet could get him cleaned up when he's anesthesized for
    being altered.  I bet he'll feel better when he's cleaner.
    

    Karen,
    
    I'm a little confused.  I know you have Sweetie & Holly (saw their
    pictures - adorable!); however, every now and then, you refer to
    Pussycat...is this a kitty who used to own you??
    
    Just curious,
    Roberta
    

>    Just getting him fixed may help some of his aggressiveness.

I've been rescuing strays for 20 years - I'm afraid the probability of
this working depends on the cat being young.  If the cat is over approx.
1 year, it isn't likely to help much...
    
				GOOD LUCK!

    
    RE:  .10  SKITZD::WILDE
    
    It had also been my impression that if a feral has been born wild,
    and lived wild for any length of time the chances of being able
    to tame him/her are slim.  This guy looks like he has been around 
    for a while.  I realize that this could be only because he has had 
    a hard time of it, but I feel sure that he is at least a few years 
    old.  I guess all I can do is all I can do!  We'll see what comes.
    
    Marion

    And even if you can't tame him, but only have him fixed and cleaned
    up, at least you will know you have done all you can to see that
    he doesn't produce more kitties out there in the wild.  Good luck
    to you.  

    Re: .9
    
    Yes, Pussycat used to own me.  He was a feral cat, 3 or 4 years
    old by the vet's estimate when he appeared in my backyard, and we
    lived together for about 8 years until he died from feline leukemia.
    He was terrified and very aggressive to start with.  Then he
    got so he trusted me, but not anyone else.  A couple of vets said
    "don't bring him back here".  Then one suggested the hormone
    shot and it was like night and day.  (He had been altered a couple
    of months before that).  He turned into a great love, although always
    a little shy with others.
                             
    P.S. he got the leukemia even though he'd been an indoor cat for
    8 years.
    

    I believe the leukemia virus is similar to AIDS in that
    it can lie dormant for several years.  Pussycat's exposure
    would have been before you took him in then.
    Hypothetical discussion:
    
    I wonder sometimes about the automatic death sentence 
    imposed when a cat tests positive for feline leukemia.
    I suppose if you've got other cats you have no other choice,
    but in Pussycat's case, if he was tested when you first got
    him, he might have tested positive and there'd be no way
    you would have known that he was going to live another 8
    years.  Then again, he may have tested negative, despite
    having been exposed to the virus and then you'd be un-
    wittingly exposing other cats you might have by taking
    him in.   I just don't trust the test completely.  I've
    heard of too many instances where cats test positive,
    then negative ... or negative, then positive (when the cats
    been indoors and not exposed to any other cats).  And I trust
    the shots even less than I trust the test.
    
    Donna

    Re: .14
    
    I am 99.9999% certain how Pussycat got leukemia -- all my cats like
    my big kitchen, which faces the backyard.  When I am home, the screen
    door is shut, but the "real door" is open.  So, even though they
    are indoor cats, they can be (and several times a day are) nose
    to nose with visiting cats from next door.  A month or so before
    Pussycat died, one of the neighbor's cats was put to sleep becuase
    of an untreatable tumor.  At that point, I had never even heard
    of feline leukemia.  It turned out that the neighbor cat had had
    it for some time, but the neighbors let it roam free.  It was often
    at our door nose to nose with Pussycat, and I often patted it and
    then came in the house and patted Pussycat.  They surely had a chance
    to trade saliva, or perhaps the theory of flea transmission is correct.
     It is impossible to describe my feelings towards my neighbors after
    I found this all out;  we discussed this (calmly) and their view
    was that "most cats are immune anyway".
    

I called the Jimmy Smith Fund For Homeless Animals, Inc. and they
suggested that you use a humane trap, get the cat to a vet to be
neutered and cleaned up. (Sometimes an outdoor feral cat has ear
mites so bad that it is driven crazy.) Then put it back outside
and just feed it if you cannot tame it and find it a home.

The Jimmy Smith Fund For Homeless Animals, Inc.
P.O. Box 194
West Somerville, Massachusetts  02144

Adoptions:  (617) 491-0414, 547-0648
Volunteers: (617) 623-2065, 547-0648

It is a private organization which feeds homeless cats in
Cambridge. The members trap Cambridge cats, neuter and vet them,
then try to find homes for those which can be tamed.  The woman I
spoke with said that many of these cats cannot be tamed and so
their volunteers just feed them in the wild.  She herself has had
such a cat at home for eight years and cannot yet pick it up. 

			Julie

Re:  Keeping the ferel cat around with existing male kitty

Cleaning, vacinating, and fixing the cat is GOOD and should be done, however
a ferel tom is VERY territorial and will not share space with others of the
same sex.  If you had no male outdoor kitty, it would be fine to feed and
just let him hang around, but with your cat there, he will continue to be
a problem for your cat...One or the other of these guys has to go far
enough away not to be able to get back to the "territory" under contention.

I wish you luck in finding him a home...he won't stop harassing you cat
and he won't go away as long as he has found a warm dry place with food...
your male may be driven out if you don't resolve this.  Are there any
farms that need good mousers near you?  You can bet that old dude can take
down a mouse real fast!

    
    re:  .17  SKITZD::WILDE
    
    What you say does have a ring of truth to it.  He is very upset
    with the situation as it stands now.  When ever I have to go into
    the garage to break up a fight (no big deal - just the sight of
    me sends the stray flying out that kitty door) Shawshie complains
    lowdly to me.  He is gratefull to me for "saveing his life one more
    time", but he also is saying "Mommy!  That *RUDE* cat ate from *MY*
    dish, and drank *MY* water and is in *MYYYYYYY* garage.  Make him
    stop it, Mommy, PLEEEEEASE make him go away".  It's not ultamatum
    time, but I can see it comeing to that.  I do know of a horse barn
    where they might just need a mouser.  I guess I just might have
    the guy fixed and see if they want him.  After all, Shawshie was
    here first!
    
    Marion

    Donna, I agree wholeheartedly!  I don't trust either the test
    or the shots.  I have heard some many stories from folks and
    breeders alike.  I think they should do a lot more research
    on this before releasing it to the unsuspecting public.

    Cats with FeLv vary so greatly in their lifespans - and in their
    quality of life. A friend of mine had gotten two kittens at the
    same time. After about a year one cat became ill and tested +
    but the other tested -. The + one had several tests and each one
    was +. That cat lived 5 more years in close contact with the lady's
    other 4 cats and none of them got FelV and none of them ever had their
    shots.
     
    On the other hand, the Framingham Humane Society inadvertently
    adopted out two kittens to the same person - AND THIS IS WHY THEY
    ** NOW ** TEST EVERY CAT PRIOR TO ADOPTION FOR FELV - and the stress 
    of going to a new home, which normally wouldn't bother cats, was too
    great and the dormant virus became active, they got very sick and
    the vet tested them with the result being a +. They were so ill
    they eventually had to be euthanized.The woman and her children 
    heartbroken. (The FAHS decided that they would never allow that 
    scenario to happen again -  thus they test ALL their cats).
    
    I guess after all my rambling, the point is that FeLV acts so
    differently- some cats live for years, some die as kittens, and
    some who are intimately exposed never get it. And no one knows why.
                                                  
    I know the original note wasn't directed to FeLv but when I saw
    it mentioned, I couldn't resist.
    
    About taming a feral - yes it is sometimes impossible. I have a
    feral cat (Jennifer) I trapped when she was less than a year old-
    she is 2-1/2 now and still hates to be touched by people. She
    doesn't scratch but runs whenever someone tries to pet her. She
    loves my other cats and my dog; she is very cute to look at;
    she will stay in the room with me (just don't TOUCH her); 
    she doesn't do anything naughty; and she is so darn sweet when she
    plays with the other cats, that she has a place in our home for
    the rest of her life. However, if I were looking for a "pet" she 
    wouldn't be one. I think her heritage was too long in the wild 
    and it would take another generation in a domestic situation to 
    produce and offspring who would be a "pet". But she doesn't have
    to worry about her next meal; doesn't have to go outside ( and never
    asks to go outside); she has her cat/dog friends; gets medical 
    attention and shots, and has her perch in the sun, so I believe
    she is okay. But a pet- she is not. We share the same house - so 
    to speak.
    
    Well, I guess I have gone on long enough. Good luck.
    Pat
    
       

    Well I caught the stray.  He came into the garage when Shawshie
    was not there.  I blocked off the kitty door.  Then came the challenge
    of how to trap him.  I opened the door to my car and went back inside.
    Sure enough, when I came out to go to work, he was in the car. 
    When he saw me near the door he hid under the front seat.  I drove
    the car to the vet.  Actually, I wasn't sure this was a good idea,
    but I did make sure that he wasn't going to jump out and chomp on
    me while I was driving.  The vet is only a mile from my house. 
    After several frantic minutes at the vet with a box and leather
    gloves, the kitty was put into a box.  He will be ready to be picked
    up Friday evening.  After the hastle of getting the kitty to the
    vet, I need a vacation from him!  What a HASTLE!  I will stop by
    the farm tonight on my way home to see if they can take him.
                                                                
    
    I'll keep you all posted.
    
    Marion

    I was fascinated by the method you caught him and impressed too!!!
    All the times I spent with traps and you get your stray to hop in
    your car - I love it. It would never happen to me in a million years.
    You did a good job.
    Congrats.
    Pat

 Many of you have heard of Midnight, commonly referred to as the Old Buck -
he was a feral cat. I thought he might have been only 6 months
at the most when he followed my son home but after taking him to the vets, he 
said he was a least 1 year old.  The vet also mentioned that because he was 
in the wild so long, his growth was stunted.  Well, we went ahead and got him 
fixed, and given all necessary shots,etc. A year later I took him back for 
updates to his shots and said to the vet "here's your stunted growth cat", he
laughed and proceeded to weigh him - all 14lbs.!!!

At the time, he was the only cat we had -- I have to admit he was a bit 
frisky, but I wrote it off as still being a kitten. Now, 11 years later and a
solid 20 lbs, he's been a nursing mother (no milk of course), a playmate, and 
now acts like an old grand-daddy with the newest kittens. 

He loves to sleep on his own pillow between my husband and I every night. 
He's truly turned into the most interesting and loving cat I've ever had.

So I guess after all this rambling, what I'm trying to point out, is don't
give up too soon -- there is hope he will also turn into a beautiful loving
cat.

		Mother of Five Friskies

    re: .23
    
    I would love to see a picture of Midnight -- he sounds so much like
    Sweetie in experience and temperment.  Sweetie was also a
    stunted-growth cat, whom the vet thought wouldn't grow any more,
    as he was about a year old when I got him.  Over the next two or
    three months, Sweetie just about lengthened before my very eyes,
    although he is definitely shorter than the average cat.  How about
    adding Midnight to the pix swap?
    

    By all means don't give up on him - when I talked about Jennifer-
    she is an example of one extreme but in a much earlier note someone
    else had a friend who had 2 ferals who weren't too friendly at first,
    and they came around to become pets. He could just be down on his
    luck and will surprise you by becoming a very sweet fellow. He could
    have scratched you severely while you were in the car - BUT HE DIDN'T. 
    Maybe he knew a better life once upon a time and just needs a chance
    now. It is certainly worth a try - you done so much already.
                                       
    (I am typing this at home at my kitchen table and Jennifer is sitting
    under the table waiting for her dinner. In fact she is getting
    downright vocal. Maybe there is still hope for her yet.)
                                                                
    Pat

    Nikki was also feral before I got him, and what a sweetie he turned
    out to be (apologies to kitty Sweetie Kolling).  He is still very
    skittish around strangers and runs from his own shadow, but with
    me, he is the most lovable, affectionate kitty I have ever owned!
    
    Don't give up hope!
    
    /Roberta
    

    Any updates??
    
     

Well, I got the stray from the vet that Friday.  I put him in my basement
where he hid all weekend.  I did notice, however, that he was eating and
drinking well.  On Sunday night, I let him out.  I was hoping that he 
and Shawshie would get along better.  Since then I have only seen him a
few times.  He has not been so bold as to come into the garage or even
close enough to try to get to know him.

Since the problem came up, it has intensified.  There are now no fewer than
five males hanging around the house.  I had hoped that the stray that I
had fixed would spread the word. "Say guys!  You'd better stay away from
_that_ house.  If they catch you near it, they cut your ba**s off!". Well,
I hoped for too much.  I'm just going to have to wait for a while longer.
At the root of the problem is the fact that my girl kitty, Justa, needs to be
fixed.  I think that's why these male kitties are being such a problem.  I
took her in two weeks ago, but she had a slight fever, so the vet gave me
some medication to give her.  She will hopefully be fixed this Friday.  I
really hope that solves the problem.  In the meantime, I have been feeding
Shawshie canned food twice a day, instead of letting him feed "at will" on
CD dry.  This way he gobbles it all down and I can take the dish in so that
there will be no food smell in the garage.

There is a funny twist to it all, though.  This morning when I went into the
garage, there was a tan male who was being very persistent about getting
close to Shawshie.  Having seen how mating male cats behave, I think that the
tan cat thinks that Shawshie is the female cat who is in heat.  All very un-
nerving for my poor macho little boy!

On the sad side - the tan cat is obviously owned by someone.  He is clean and
sweet looking.  He also, however, seems to have something wrong with one of
his front paws.  It is only using the other three legs to walk, and the paw
is swollen to about twice the normal size.  I tried to catch him, but he ran
away.  

Marion
                                                    

    Re: swollen paw, etc.
    
    Aargh, poor baby.  Please keep us up to date on the continuing saga.
    

    
    RE:  swollen paw
    
    The paw doesn't seem to slow the little guy down much.  I tried
    for quite a time this morning to catch him (in the rain, no less).
    He seems to be carrying it strangely, too.  Not just drawn up to
    his body, but drawn to his body with his paw pads pointing UP! 
    When he stops running, he licks it.  Looks like a really nasty abcess
    to me.  I figure perhaps if it really starts to affect him, it'll
    slow him down enough for me to catch him.  Like I said, he looks
    like he belongs to somebody, so I bet someone is mighty worried.
    I'd say it serves them right, but it's the cat that is in pain and
    out in the rain day after day.  Darn them!
    
    While I'm on the subject -
    
    For those of you who don't know it, an unfixed male cat will wonder far and
    wide when he smells a female cat in heat.  If the female is inaccessable
    to him, he will often stick around for days or weeks looking around for
    her.  Not only that, but the male cat is never alone in his persute.
    There are usually any number of other male cats who hang around
    for the same reason - all of them unfixed, some of them feral, diseased
    and absolutely filthy.  These males fight constantly, and when I
    say fight I mean FIGHT.  As with the little cream colored kitty
    I have been talking about, they are often hurt in these fights,
    but still they don't go home.  Any abcess can be serious.  If they
    go unattended, the cat gets blood poisoning which is fatal if the
    cat goes untreated, but
    the instinct to reproduce is so strong that they will still not
    go home.  I am saying this because an unfixed male kitty is allowed
    to go out, you can be sure that he is going to be gone for long
    periods of time.  You might also consider that he might not return
    at all.  If he does, he could be all beaten up, or diseased, or
    both.  Please have your kitties fixed.  If not for the sake of the
    unwanted kittens that might come of it, then for the sake of your
    own little one!      
    
    Sorry to bore some of you folks, but it breaks my heart to see and
    hear these poor kittys day in and day out.  It is therefore hard
    for me to get them out of my mind.
    
    Marion
     

    re:  .30  (the part about the unfixed male cat hanging around for
               a few days)
    
    I know what you mean about this.  When Amelia was 7-8 months old
    and due to be spayed, she went into heat.  For several days I would
    open my front door to find 4 male cats sitting in a line in across
    the entrance to the doorway (quite a variety of makes and models to
    choose from too).  Luckily none of them ever tried to rush the door.
    They just sat there patiently and looked up at me as I came out
    as if to ask me "Can Amelia come out and play?"
    
    Jan

    any updates on the feral cat?
    

    
    I still have several that hang around the house, but since Justa
    has been fixed, they don't tend to sit on window ledges or try to
    get in, so the proplem is not quite so severe.  I did, however,
    catch my neighbor throwing rocks at one of them the other day. 
    Later on I saw him at the grocery store.  I told him if he ever
    _did_ manage to hurt one of them, he would be lucky if all I took
    to him was a rock.  Honestly, arn't some people deranged?
    
    Marion

    How's the tan cat with the abcessed paw doing?
    

    His paw is all better.  Like I said, he does seem to belong to
    somebody.  Now if they would just have him fixed!
    
    Marion