Conference misery::feline_v1

    Pam --
    
    According to my vet, the primary culprit is magnesium, which helps
    form crystals in the urine.
    
    C/D dry (or wet) had virtually no magnesium.  Some Friskies Buffet
    canned foods (e.g., Mixed Grill, Liver and Chicken) are also quite
    magnesium-poor.  Seafoods are magnesium-_rich_ and therefore a no-no.
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    Your cat might also have a secondary infection and may
    need to be treated with an antibiotic. Proper diet is
    necessary, appearance of blood is something that should be
    checked. 

    Hi Pam.
    One of my cats, Barney, has suffered from FUS for about 2 years.
    I now have him (and his two brothers who show no signs) on a
    combination 9-Lives/CD diet.  Last summer, I called 9-Lives in
    California, explained my problem, and they sent me a ton of literature
    on their food, along with the ingredients.  They were quite helpful.
    I also use Purina Pro Plan dry food which is low in magnesium. 
    About once a week, I give Barney some medicine - Uroeze - that the
    vet gave me last summer when I last had problems.  This CAN NOT
    be taken at the same time he's eating the CD, so I try to spread
    things out.  Since the infection cleared up, the only problem is
    that Barney likes to eat - A LOT - and has gotten quite fat and
    has to go on a diet.  I don't know if this is related to the problems
    or not, and will find out next month at their annual check up.
    I'm not too, too concerned because he seems healthy in all other
    ways and shows no sign of blood in his urine.
    
    Good luck with your kitty.
    Mary
    

    Pam
    
    I just had a bladder stone surgically removed from my 3 yr old spayed
    female.  The symtoms were similar to cysisitis (sp?) bloody urine
    but I never noticed frequent trips to the box.  I had her on
    antibiotics first and then finally xrayed and the stone was found.
    I then was told to feed her Science Diet for a month and then had
    her re-xrayed, the stone didn't change.  Now that the stone is gone
    my vet said I could feed her any type of food, the stone was the
    type that had nothing to do with diet and hopefully will not reappear.
    
    The vet could not tell me how the stone developed or how long my
    cat had it - I only noticed the bloody urine when she used my new
    kitchen floor as her box!!
    
    Karen
    

    As far as the costs, think of it this way.  A large can of any of
    the Science Diet foods runs approximately $1.00 per can.  I've been
    able to get it for as low as .85 per can.  One can is two LARGE
    meals for one cat.  A small cat could make a can last 3 meals. 
    So even for two meals at $1.00 per can, .50 per meal, that's the
    same as a can of Friskes Buffet or Fancy Feast, and 1 can of Friskes
    is one meal.  You're not really paying more.  The dry runs about
    $6.00 for 4 pounds.  Both the dry and the wet are pretty rich. 
    Especially the C/D so they need much less.  The C/D is very high
    in calories so if you aren't careful and feed too much, you get
    a fat kitty.  Corkie was always small until I put her on the C/D.
    I let her free feed and she balooned up to 12 pounds real fast.
    I have her back on regular Science Diet which isn't so high in calories
    and she dropped the extra weight. There is a Hills R/D (reducing
    diet) for real fat kitties.  Anyway, a 4 pound bag of dry lasts
    a month or more (for one cat).  There really is no significant
    increase in what you'll spend in the long run, and you're kitties
    will be so much healthier.
                              
    
    Pat
    

    Why can't the uroeze be given at the same time as C/D?
    

    Response to .2  -  She is on an antibiotic - strawberry flavored,
                       Yum Yum (She hates it)
    
    Response to .3  -  Karen  -  It would be hard to notice bloody
                       urine in the litter box.  It would have to be
                       pretty bad.  Did you notice any other unusual
                       behavior from her other than this?
    
     Generally, my vet says that I can order C/D from him by the casefull.
     It will cost me $28 per case, I assume that it holds 30 cans. 
     Where else can I get both moist and dry C/D foods the cheapest?
    
    
    

    When my cats have had bouts of FUS, sometimes I have noticed it
    becuase there would be a small stain on the bed sheets where he
    or she tends to sleep -- like a few drops of urine with a little
    blood in it.  Sometimes a cat having discomfort from FUS will stop
    using its litter box and start going elsewhere in the house.
    

    C/D  is only available from a vet (hence they are sold under the
    label Prescription Diets). Science Diet is very similar to C/D,
    the biggest difference being that C/D makes the cat's urine a bit
    more acidic (this helps prevent crystals from forming).

    As for finding the cheapest source of C/D, I don't think that it
    is going to do you much good to shop around. Everyone I know pays
    about the same thing. It seems that most vets sell it at cost to
    their patients.
        
    Deb            

    I keep hearing about the Purina Pro Plan dry, but can't find it
    in any of the local stores (I live in Ashland, MA).
    
    Can this brand be purchased in supermarkets?  Please advise.
    
    Thanks,
    Roberta
    

    I FEED MY CATS HILLS CANNED FOOD, BUT IN ADDITION THEY ALSO SELL
    A DRY FOOD, WHICH IS LOW IN ASH (MAIN CAUSE OF CYSTITIS). THEY ALSO
    SELL OTHER DRY CAT FOOD LOW IN ASH AT THE PET STORES. MY CATS REALLY
    LOVE IT.
    
    REGARDS
    

    Now that we are on the subject of dry foods...what do you folks
    think of IAMS?
    My cats seem to love it and I have had (cross my fingers and every
    thing else) no problems to date...about a year or so.  Some of the
    kids have had problems in the past.
    

    Karen (re .13) which food are you refering to?  IAMS?
    
    
    

    The only thing about buying in quantity with the prescription drys.
    The stuff has real food in it.  I mean it's not just filler.  If
    you have enough cats to eat it up you're fine.  I purchased a 20
    lb bag thinking it would keep and it doesn't keep forever.  After
    two or three months the stuff gets real greasy and smells like old
    Crisco oil.  I don't know if it actually "spoils", but it got real
    smelly and I threw it out.  It got greasy enough to seep through
    the bag like potato chips after they've sat around.  I was afraid
    that the oil in the food had gone rancid.  Anyone know if it's possible
    for dry food to really spoil and create a problem?
    
    Pat
    

    re .6	I'm not exactly why the uroeze can't be used with the
    		CD.  It has something to do with the chemical reactions
    		within the body and together, these to will act against
    		each other.
    
    re .10	I presently buy Purina Pro Plan at a local pet/feed
    		store.  Since you live in Ashland, try the place (I
    		don't know the name) in Framingham next to the (new)
    		Registry.  That's a similar place to where I go now
    		and they may have the Pro Plan, or know where to get
    		it.  It's not as expensive as the CD - I pay about
    		$12 for what I think is a 20lb bag.
    
    
    Mary
    

    re: .7
    
    Pam, come to think of it, she was pretty "grumpy", not very playful
    before the stone was found, but then I thought she was "upset" because
    we had gotten a puppy and chose to urinate on the new floor!  
    
    My vet said that everytime she urinated the stone irritated the
    lining of the bladder and it would bleed, I'm sure there was discomfort
    and that's why she would go on the cold hard floor.
    
    Hope this helps,
    
    Karen
    
    

    

    "Diet and FUS" by Francis A. Kallfelz, D.V.M.
    "Cat Fancy", April 1988, p. 32

    This is a reasonable article and includes some of the following 
    information (please beware that I am abstracting information here 
    and leaving out much of the article):

    Only about 1 percent of the adult cat population will ever 
    develop FUS, however it is still one of the most prevalent 
    feline diseases.

    Major dietary factors:			Not a factor per say  

    o  Magnesium				o  Vitamin A
    o  pH (acidity of the urine)		o  Dry Food
    o  less concentrated urine 			o  Ash
       (cats need good water intake)

    Experimental studies have indicated that increasing the magnesium 
    level of the diet results in an increased incidence of FUS.  No
    conclusive evidence exists at the present to prove that 
    decreasing the magnesium level will decrease the incidence of the 
    problem.  Note that low in ash does not always mean low in 
    magnesium.  A low magnesium level is below 0.1 percent (Hill's 
    Prescription Diet Feline c/d; Science Diet Feline Maintenance 
    either wet or dry).

    Acidity of the urine may be the most important factor.  Mineral 
    stones (struvite) dissolve, or fail to form at all in an acid 
    solution.  The goal is to have the cat produce a urine that is 
    consistently at a pH of about 6.1.  Meat or fish diets tend to 
    produce a more acid urine than do vegetable based diets.  Acidifier 
    tablets do not produce a consistently acid urine. 

    (NOTE:  vitamin C not discussed -- J)

    University of California study:  cats fed a diet which produced a 
    consistently acid urine did not develop FUS even when the diet 
    contained relatively high levels of magnesium.  Cats fed a diet
    which produced a consistently alkaline urine did develop FUS 
    irrespective of whether the diet contained relatively high or low
    levels of magnesium. 

			Julie

    Thanks Julie!
    
    Recently I spoke again with my vet and he also indicated that Ash
    is not considered a factor anymore in whether or not a cat develops
    FUS.  Rather, it is associated more with levels of magnesium in
    their diet.  I also questioned feliners' suggestion of giving them
    vitamin C, and he said that it "couldn't hurt", but I'm not giving
    it to mine.  
    
    I'm sticking to Hills C/D diet and Science Diet's specially prepared
    dry food (They LOVE dry food - and I feel better if they have some
    of it around, as I am not home most of the day)  Now, they'll probably
    get FAT!
    
    Pam
    

    One vitamin C tablet a day for Alex really does the trick.  He had FUS
    so seriously with total blockage and almost total kidney failure that
    the vet indicated he might reblock frequently.  He's on C/D, but also
    gets the vitamin C to help ensure an acidic urine.  My vet says it
    achieves the same result as the prescription acidifiers that cost a lot
    more.  The good thing about vitamin C is that it is not absorbed into
    their systems, but just passes through, acting as an acidifier in the
    urine on its way out! 
    
    Anyway, Alex has not had a single blockage or reoccurrence of FUS since
    October last! 
    
    There was one scare.  He loves to eat and one day got into the girls'
    dry Friskies.  He ate the whole 22 oz. box before we came home from
    work.  He looked like a butterball!  That night, he started exhibiting
    the symptoms of FUS.  I gave him an extra vitamin C then as well
    as the next day.  The problem cleared right up!  Maybe coincidence,
    but I'm convinced!
    
    (Cats, like humans, can be hurt by too much of a good thing, so don't
    overdo it!  250 mg a day seems to work fine.)