Conference misery::feline_v1

    My "testimonial" may not be of much use, since both my cats were
    already declawed when I got them.  But as far as their behavior being
    affected, well, they are both extremely sweet and have no destructive
    habits.  (Well, Jasper does have a tendency to use the carpet as a
    litter box if he's left without supervision; I've talked about this in
    other notes.  I don't think it's related to declawing, though.  I sure
    *hope* it isn't!)  Chayna is neurotic and shy around strangers; I think
    that may have to do with the fact that she was raised among a lot of
    boisterous dogs.  She's very affectionate with my S.O. and me, however--
    the epitome of a lap cat.  The only behavior that might be the result
    of her being declawed is that she makes likes she's sharpening her
    claws on the base of the couch (or the arm, or the back) or on the wall
    or on a door, and she moves her paws really fast.  If she wasn't
    declawed, we'd have shredded furniture and woodwork!  I suspect that
    the behavior is a result of the declawing.  Fortunately, it's not
    destructive.  In fact, it's rather cute. 

    Jasper does the same thing once in a while, but less frantically.  I
    think he may actually have picked the habit up from Chayna.  He's not
    a lap cat, but is affectionate in his own way (loves to have his head
    and chin and cheeks rubbed).  And he always likes to be wherever the
    people are.  He's pretty mellow.

    So, declawing doesn't seem to have had any ill effects.  (Jasper is
    about 4 and Chayna is about 8, by the way.)  I can't speak about their
    immediate recovery from the surgery, since that was before my time.  I
    grew up with cats, and am well-acquainted with the destruction that can
    result from those little claws (to belongings, other animals, and
    humans).  And I think that, were I to get another cat (someday; no
    immediate plans to augment my two), I might seriously give
    consideration to declawing. 

    I have to admit, it's nice to hear non-horror stories about declawing,
    for a change...!  :-)
							-- Nina

Let me state that I've never FLAMED anyone for declawing and I don't
intend to start now.  Nor have I ever stated my opinion on it, and I'm
not going to now.

There are 5 notes that discuss declawing already (38,74,223,778,821), 
and they do include positive experiences.  Note 778, started by the author 
of .0, has 34 replies with no real FLAMING per se.  Note 821 does not have
any FLAMING either.  For people considering declawing, it's important to read 
both sides of the issue and I think you can get that from note 778 and the 
others, despite the strong emotions expressed.

I'm concerned with the real intent behind this note.  I'm not sure that
it's possible to participate in a public notes forum without ever having
your opinions disagreed with or flamed at.  If there were no positive
experiences documented in the file already, then I can see the value in
the note.  But there are.  I don't dispute that there are some uncalled
for and unfair insinuations over the issue (just as your reply 38.37 was
uncalled for) but for the most part the feline community has tried to debate 
the issue fairly.

Donna

I inherited my two boys already declawed, and they are able to get anywhere
they want to go, anytime, in any fashion that they choose...if they are
having behavior problems, I don't see it.

When I brought Hannah to the house, she was a kitten, very frisky, and
quite fierce in her play.  Out of deference to the 13 year old female,
Tabitha, who is also declawed, it was decided Hannah had to be declawed
also...as all my cats are in-doors only, it was not a difficult decision
for me.  I have a good vet and I trust him.  Hannah has survived the
experience with no loss of friskiness, and now she and Tabby can romp
with one another without worry of scratches.  It's been wonderful for
Tabs, she's like a kitten again..and the boys have a great time with
Hannah, as well, because she can't hurt them when they play.

Just for the record, Hannah is already getting bigger than the others,
as they are all small cats and she is going to be a big one.  No
problems, no side effects, and no hassles.  Would I do it again?
Yes, if the situation warranted it.  The main thing is to have it done
by a GOOD vet and being willing to pay the price.  Discount surgery of
any kind can lead to problems...but especially this surgery.

    Thank you Karen for starting this note.  I think it is important
    to have a  note without all the negatives for those of us who
    already have a declawed cat, those of us going through the process,
    or those of us who feel we must have our cats declawed.
    
    I had my cat declawed about 1 month ago.  While she was at the vets I
    wrote a note to this file explaining my kitties temperment problem with
    other people. I was hoping to get feed back from other feliners with a
    similar problem.  I did and the support was great.  However in my note
    I mentioned my kitty was getting declawed, and I was mildly flamed in
    one note.  This was not what I needed to hear while my cat was under
    anesthesia...to beware of psychological problems. 
    
    Anyway, on a more positive note...We had Mandy's front paws declawed
    and had her spayed at the same time. When I picked her up, I asked the
    Doctor if there would be any side effects. She said some cats become
    more vocal when they are threatened. 
                                          
    I took the day off when Mandy came home from the vet just so I could
    keep an eye on her.  It really wasn't necessary because all she did was
    sleep, but I would have been worried sick about her if I left her
    alone. Once she got over the initial grogginess she kept licking her
    paws and meowing whenever she wanted up on the bed or down off the
    couch.  That lasted for about 1 week...after that she was fine.  She
    still attacks toys and people feet with her front paws. She still paws
    at the couch as if she had claws.  She hasn't seem to become more timid
    or more vocal.  She is back to a normal kitty ( if you could call
    her normal).  Would I do it again...only if we felt it necessary.7
                                    
    
    Suzanne
    
    

    First of all, I'd like to point out that aside from the policy
    issue of whether one should restrict negatives comments, there
    is the "reality" issue that there may be experiences with BOTH
    positive *and* negative aspects.
    
    But on to the topic requested:  
    
    I had Cosette and Fantine declawed when they were little, and
    there were NO PROBLEMS then or since.  However, I was quite
    horrified at the long recovery (and theirs were routine recoveries);
    I had expected somethine more like spaying...two days later, all
    have forgotten it occurred.  I felt terribly guilty, and probably
    would not do it again ever.
    
    I *do* wish that someone -- the vet was the most appropriate person
    in this case -- had told me about simply trying to *clip* their
    claws!  Maybe at that time in my life I wouldn't have found that
    satisfactory, but I didn't even know it was an option to consider.
    [Okay, no flames for mere *stupidity* please ;-) ]
    
    I think the main issue here, as with many other things in life,
    is to be aware of the OPTIONS... and then make the best *informed*
    decision that you can at that time!
    
    Because Cosette and Fantine are indoor-only, and they "think" they
    are sharpening their claws when they scratch away at scratching
    posts and furniture, I don't think they realize they have no
    "sharp things" in those front paws!  And I do hope that none of
    the other cats tell them -- sort of like ruining Santa Claws...oooooh,
    that sneaked in just as I was about to type "Claus"    
    	
    	;-)  ;-)  ;-)
    

    
    
    	I don't have any experience with having a ca declawed, but I
    do have a question.  Is it more tramatic for an older cat to have
    this procedure.  I may in the near future INHERIT my daughters
    cat when she moves.  He is 2 1/2 years old neutered male who goes
    out occassionally, but is in most of the time.  He just happens
    to love my most expensive chair to sharpen his claws on and I
    can't have him continue to do this without causing a problem.
    Could I have him declawed now at his age or should it only be
    for kittens.  He's very sweet and mellow and I want to keep him
    that way.  He only goes out if I'm around the yard to supervisor
    him, so I think he will be safe. Any info would be appreciated.
    
    

    re .6
    My cat was about 1 and a half years old; like I said previously
    she had no problems related to age or otherwise.
    
    Just a suggestion though - as others have stated - it is wise for you
    to check all your options before the declawing and to talk to a vet
    about it.  Educate yourself on the possibilities.  There will be
    pros and cons but you must decide for yourself and your kitty what
    the best solution is.
    
    A suggestion is to clip your cats claws and see if he still finds a
    need to claw at your chair.  Another is to buy him is own scratching
    post.  Another is if you do decide to have him declawed, you may want
    to keep his back claws, that way he still can protect himself just
    incase he gets away from your outdoor supervision. My cat is an indoor
    cat too, we only had her front paws declawed, just incase. 
    
    Hope you have fun with your potential cat!
    
    Suzanne

    
    We had Sandy and Sunny declawed when they were each 6 months.  After
    two or three days  they were fine.  They both rub their paws on
    the furniture too, probably because it must feel good to them. 
    Or maybe it is instinct.  Their personalities have not changed at
    all because of the declawing.  And they don't have to worry about
    getting in trouble for ruining wallpaper or furniture.  We try to
    keep their back claws clipped so they don't get caught in the carpet
    or hurt each other when they are play fighting.  
    
    If I had it to do over again, I would definitely have them declawed.
    We take Sunny out on the back porch in the summer because she likes
    to roll on the cement in the sun.   But Sandy never goes out at
    all.  So I don't worry about them getting hurt because of not having
    claws.  
    
    It was a very positive experience for us.
    
    Susan

    Re: .6
    
    Is there a scratching post in the house?  Cats really do have a
    need to scratch things, and if there isn't a post they will go for
    something else.  A scratching post should be heavy enough and have
    a broad enough base so that it won't tip and frighten the cat when
    she/he uses it.  Try rubbing catnip at the top (so the cat reaches
    up for it and gets th idea of what the post feels like under its
    paws).  I scratched at the post with my fingernails to show my cats
    what it was for -- the scratching sound seemed to get the idea across
    and they both instantly used the post.  You may need more than one
    post, depending on how big your house is.  You might even want to
    start out with a post right next to the prized piece of furniture
    and then inch it off to some more convenient spot.  There has been
    discussion of the best material to make posts out of in previous
    notes (carper, rope, etc.).  You might try the search command to
    find those.
    

    re: .0
    
    Karen, before I had my two kitties declawed I felt the same way
    you did... I was terrified that they would never "wake up" after
    the operation... I had them both done at the same time (RumTum also
    got nuetured...boy was he mad at me...both ends sore!)  Since they
    are both in-door cats, I wasn't worried about them going out and
    not being able to climb a tree to escape a dog.  They have no side
    effects.... I picked them up the next day (I was anxious, I really
    missed them) which happened to be a Sat., so I was home with them
    all weekend and they were bleeding just a little, but fine otherwise.
    They also "stratch" the furniture... its really funny, I think to
    see them do this with no claws.  I would definately do it again
    if I got another cat.... besides not having them ruin my furniture,
    or stratch me when I play them, they can't hurt each other when they
    play.
       
    re: .6 - Age... When I was growing up we had (my mother still has
    her) a cat that was in-door/out-door which wasn't declawed...when
    my mother got new furniture she decided to have the cat declawed,
    I think she was about 8 at the time and there were no problems...
    she is now strictly an in-door cat, but once in a while she'll get
    out and go up into the woods and bring back a present.  My two cats
    were about 9 months old when I had them done.  
    
    So all in all, I would recommend declawing... I have had very good
    experiences concerning it.  Also, its fun to play with them and
    not have to worry about your hand or arm being mamed! :-)
    
    Erin

    I've been thinking about this note ever since it was posted.  There
    are some conferences that have restricted notes (ex: womannotes,
    which is trying "for women only notes" because it's regularly trashed
    with content-free and abusive replies from some noters who all
    happen to be male), but I think restricted notes are inappropriate
    in FELINE because the situation here is different.  What happens
    if in the future someone who is thinking about declawing finds this
    note, doesn't look further, and so is unaware of the potential for
    crippling and death involved with this process?  
                                 

re: -1

To find this note they have to dir in some fashion with the word "declaw"
included...anyone with sense will read all notes that are available if
they want data on the issue.  I think what was intended for this note
was a place where experiences that did not end in horror for cat and owner
could be related.

All other notes and responses I've read on this issue do seem radically
slanted to the negative to me (and from comments here - I suspect to
others as well)...if a person is in a position where other options
have not worked, or are not available, then this note and the responses
may present one side of the issue, without rancor, that may be a
reassurance.  As for the risk of "death and maiming" type of comment,
let's keep in mind that ANY surgery in which the cat is anesthesized
bears a risk of death and any surgery may end up unsuccessful and result
in damage...there are some who would argue that neutering is not
a "natural" surgery, and should not be done and yet we do it and consider
it necessary and responsible.

    
    
    I have been sitting here reading these notes with amazement.
    
    I had Selina declawed last March.  The reason we had our "baby"
    declawed was because of a couple of things.
    
    1. My husband's job includes him working with a lot of chemical with
       his hands and playing with Selina always led to scratches and
       cuts on his hands.... (mind, you, I told him to be careful)
    
    2. We were unable to get Selina to let us clip her nails, (repeated
       battles were under way each time we tried).  And yes, the vet
       did show us the proper way to do this procedure.
    
    3. She would not, under any circumstances, use her scratching post
       after bringing her to the post every time we saw her scratch.
    
    4. I saw my parent's cats, both indoors felines, well adjusted
       to their situation,  and lastly
    
    5. It was either have her declawed or get rid of her.  And I just
       couldn't part with her. I hate ultimatums!
    
    In our situation, we had all of Selina's paws declawed.  She has
    adjusted beautiful.  She had no problems whatsoever.  We had a
    wonderful vet that took the time to explain everything.  And the
    vet's receptionist called us twice a day to let us know the
    progress of our kitty and welcomed any calls that we placed.
    
    Sure, I had all the hesitations as everyone else does, but in the
    end we carefully weighed the entire situation.
    
    We are pleased that Selina has turned out as she did.  She has had
    no changes in her personality.
    
    My mom's cat do continue to scratch even though they are declawed
    and chose an interesting place to perform this act - on my mom's leg.
    As she explains it, all the times she's ever scratched their backs, they're
    now returning the favor.  Have you ever had a leg rub from your
    precious kitty. They seem to enjoy this act. After the leg rub, they
    settle down to a long rest in her lap purring & expecting their turn
    to be rubbed.                                              
    
    Oh yea, by the way, we did have Selina mated two weeks ago with
    a male clawed cat.  He treated her with kindness and it didn't have
    any adverse affect on her. It didn't bother her in the least.  We
    were worried that he might tear her apart.  Don't let the claws
    kid you, cats certainly know how to use their teeth.
    
    So hopefully we should be expecting a litter around March 27th.
    
    Declawing is not for everyone and should not be considered lightly. However
    I hope that some of the things I've mentioned help.
    
    And boy have I been reading my kitty manuals............
    
    

    My cat was declawed very young (3 mos? or so).  Now she is
    9 years old, and doing fine in self defense.  (She learned quickly
    how to bite the dog).  And, now that we live near a farm, she surprised
    me by catching mice last winter (this year they know she's tough).
    
    She also, does a clean kill - no externally signs of serious combat
    and no blood.  My vet said I should be very proud to have such a
    mouser - and "I am".

	Here are two more positive experiences....
    
    	About two years ago, I agonized over whether to declaw my three
    	cats.  They are strictly indoors-only and are home on their
	own during the day.  
    
    	Because they spent quite a bit of time alone, it was impossible 
    	for my husband and me to break their scratching habits.  We 
    	tried giving them scratching posts, squirting them with water, 
    	etc.  All it did was teach them that they shouldn't scratch
    	when we were looking.  Luckily our living room couches (their
    	favorite target) stood up to the abuse so we were able to live
    	with the problem for awhile.
    
    	When we bought new furniture, however, there was no avoiding
    	the problem any longer; the upholstery showed abuse from the
    	first day!
    
    	The idea of declawing really bothered me.  I had heard all 
    	horror stories, and I felt like a criminal for even considering
    	it.  But, in the end, my only two choices were to give the 
    	cats away or declaw them.  I very sadly called the vet and
    	made an appointment for my three "kids" to have their surgery
    	(front paws only).
    
    	The cats went into the animal hospital on a Wednesday and
    	came home on Friday.  Their feet were sore, to be sure, and
    	they walked very gingerly.  But within a week they were all
    	basically back to normal.  Our only setback was the day after
    	they came home -- one cat, Willie, jumped at my sliding glass
    	door when he saw a bird at our feeder, and started bleeding
    	from one paw.  We took him quickly to vet, who bandaged him
    	and suggested we leave the paw wrapped for a couple of days.
    	Having his leg in a "cast" was a great indignity(!) for Willie,
    	but he was fine.  The bleeding, which looked scary, was not
    	serious or life-threatening.
    
    	Today, the kitties are all just the same as when they had
    	their claws -- no personality changes, no hostile behavior.
    	They continue to scratch the furniture with their "ghost" 
    	claws and are happy as clams.  They put on an especially
    	hysterical act of "scratching" my wicker hamper, fiercely
    	gripping it with their toes.
    
    	About a year ago, we acquired Cat #4 and also had him declawed
    	in the front.  Again, he has suffered no ill effects.  He had
    	the surgery done at the same time as his neutering, and like
    	the others, appears to have no earthly idea that his claws are
    	gone.
    
    	I have a 5-month old (human) baby now and am even more reassured
    	that declawing the cats was the right thing to do.  As he
    	reaches out and grabs at the cats, he can't be hurt by a swipe
    	from their paws.
    
    	I sympathize with anyone who's agonizing over this decision.
    	People have strong feelings about this, and they will tell
    	you horrible stories.

    
       	But if you've weighed all the pros and cons and have decided
    	that declawing is the answer for you, don't feel guilty!  My
    	kids (and they really are part of the family) have come thru
    	absolutely great.  By the way, two of them were slightly less
    	than a year old when they had the surgery, one was 2 yrs. old,
    	and the other was 3+ years.
    
    	j.

    Hi Karen,
    
    I am very glad that there is another cat lover out there that believes
    in de-clawing.
    
    I had a very bad experience with the cat that I had before Lightning
    that landed me in the hospital for a very bad infection from the
    cats claws.  The cat had a jealous attack and did a job on my arm.
    Then and there, I decided that all my cats would be de-clawed in
    the future.
    
    Lightning was my first cat that was de-clawed.  She is pure white
    and when I went to pick her up 48 hours later she was SOOOO glad
    to see me.  The assistants there said she was a love and would use
    her paws (as sore as they must have been) to beg for attention.
    Of course she got it.  Lightning could not go up and down stairs
    or jump off a bed for a few days, and she had to re-learn how to
    play with her `new' paws.  After that she was fine.  She even learned
    how to give us caresses on the cheeks with her `new' paws.
    
    DejaVu was my second cat to be de-clawed.  She came through even
    better than Lightning.  The only problem she had was that one stitch
    wouldn't disolve.  We finally ended up cutting it.
    
    Neither one had any change in personality except to get more loving
    (if that was possible) and to no longer get hollered at for destroying
    furniture.  They also still do the `sharpening of the claws' on
    the backs of the kitchen chairs, but now they can do it anytime.
    
    I am very glad that I decided to get Lightning and DejaVu de-clawed.
    
    Sandi (Lightning's and DejaVu's mom)
    
    

    I can't stress how important it is to select a good vet based on
    recommendations from others for having a cat properly declawed.  My
    family has had over a dozen cats declawed by our vet in Virginia.  Not
    a one ever had a bad side effect in terms of healing or personality.
    This reassured me when I adopted Alex-II and decided to have him
    declawed to prevent possible harm to his declawed housemate sisters.

    When I had Alexander-II declawed here (in MA), I was very disappointed
    with the vet (described in another note).  Alex did not heal very well,
    and was in considerable discomfort for over a week, including excessive
    bleeding and an infection which had to be treated with antibiotics. 
    
    Anyway, he did heal, and is all well.  I am having him checked by
    a new vet this weekend, just to be sure.  But through it all, his
    loving personality did not change.  I only feel guilty about not
    exercising due care and caution in selecting the vet, and urge others
    to do so if the decision to declaw is right for you and your feline
    friend.