Conference misery::feline_v1

    Check with your vet.
    
    Ordinarily, if why a cat "puddles" is emotional, he or she will
    "do it" on a soft surface like a carpet.  If it's organic/biological,
    he or she will generally use a hard surface.
    
    From your description, then, this might be health related.  The
    above "rule of thumb" is by no means absolute, but it'as a gopod
    first approximation.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    I don't know how to stop this behavior (assuming that the cat is
    not sick), but altered male cats seem to do this when they are bored
    or jealous.  Maybe one of those "anaimal psychologists" (if that
    isn't just hype)?   I'm glad my two never tried this one!  Sometimes
    it is just because the cat thinks its box is not clean enough --
    I knew someone whose cat (female, this time) would use the bathtub
    if the catbox was not up to Bullet's standards (her "pet humans"
    are rather haphazard housekeepers).  Ycch!
    
    My friend's altered tom strode upstairs and pissed on my friend's
    pillow when John decided one day to let a stray cat in to be
    fed (it had been hanging around the neighborhood for a long time
    at that point, and seemed to be trying to "adopt" John).  Nugget's
    opinion being very clear at that point, John never let the other
    cat in again (it never figured out that there was a cat door in
    that house for Nugget's use, mounted in a window over the porch
    roof, which Nugget got to by climibing a tree - tree blew down in
    a storm, so it is now downstairs), and it was subsequently adopted
    by a neighbor instead.

    I wish I had some answers for you because I have the same problem
    with Pollux.  I don't know what to do about it. Every now and then
    we'll discover a puddle -- sometimes not too fresh -- but it only
    happens maybe 2 times a year.  Because he tends to seek out out
    of the way places, we don't always find them right away.  I am learning
    to trust my nose when there seems to be just a little something
    not quite right in the house.
    
    I'd be interested in advice, too.
    
    Laura

    Update on Rascal....  (written by Janet B. from my other half's
                           account, since my node is not working...)
    
    There has consistently been at least one puddle a night now and
    yesterday, rather than 1 large puddle there were serveral smaller
    ones, more like a short squirt. One of the newspapers that he did
    this on also showed signs of blood. We are not sure if this was
    just flea dirt that had gotten wet or not, but he's off to the vet
    this morning. The "sample" that he was nice enough to do before
    the vet visit doesn't show any sign of blood now, though.
    
    Also, since we needed to get a sample, the cats were seperated and
    now we know for sure that Rascal is the culprit....
    
    I will let you know what the vet says...... now all I can think
    of is how guilty I'll feel for punishing him for something when he
    might have been sick..... (he'll be able to get away with murder
    for a while, if that's the case! :-)   )
    

    Re .4:
    
    With the blood, I suspect strongly FUS.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    very often it you can't see blood in the urine; it takes a lab analysis
    to find it. If you could see blood, you have trouble. If the vet
    suggests sending a sample to the lab, do it. The $20 lab fee might
    point to a problem long before that cat starts showing symptoms
    other than indiscriminant urination.
    
    By the way, there is a difference between spraying and indiscriminant
    urination. A well cat might spray, but it is only a sick cat that
    will break litter training and leave a puddle on the floor, and
    it leaves that puddle to tell you that it isn't feeling well.
    
    Deb
    

    Another update.....
    
    The trip to the vet's this morning (with lab test) concluded that
    Rascal does have an infection and crystals in the urine. "We" got
    a shot of antibiotics (I think it hurts me more than him) and two
    types of medicine to take for the next week or so, along with lots
    of liquids and instructions.
    
    One reason why we originally thought he was just going through one of
    his phases is that this cat has a history of using a puddle (at least
    1/2 cup of liquid mind you) to express his opinions. So far (before
    this most recent bout of puddles that is) over the past 2 1/2 yrs. he
    has "christened"  a dive bag full of dive equipment (I guess 'cause
    Jeff spent all afternoon in the pool with it rather than him), a pair
    of fatigues, and, when we leave them for the weekend, usually something
    in the kitchen - either the stove,table,or the kitchen counter (and
    whatever is on the counter at the time). Once, when they wanted to go
    out and I had been cooking and then had to leave for a short time
    (which is why they hadn't gone out) I came back to find the burner I
    had been using had been used...... you can't imagine what a smell cat
    "p***" makes when it is cooking....yeeeccchhhhh! 
    
    Anyway - since the kitchen counter is a "favorite" for hits, and we had
    been away recently for a long weekend, we thought Rascal was just in
    one of his snits. And since there wasn't the characteristic spraying,
    just large puddles, we didn't think of an infection. But, with the
    increase in occurrances, the next "sample" was going to be sent to the
    vet anyway, just to make sure.... 
    
    So, now, Rascal will be taking his medicine and we'll be keeping
    a close eye on him and hopefully the next time I report anything,
    it will be that everything is ok! Thanks for the suggestions in
    the previous notes - 

    Janet B.

    I'm sorry to hear that your cat has FUS (my Argus does), but knowing
    it seems to be half of the problem. Just be thankful that kitty
    wasn't blocked (a blocked cat has a 48 hour life expectancy). According
    to my vet, FUS doesn't just happen over night, and cats that have one
    bout later seem to get it again (just like some humans that we all know
    that constantly seem to have bladder problems). Chances are pretty good
    that some of those other puddles were the milder occurrences of FUS; the
    fact that there was blood and crystals showing up this time indicates that
    the cat was building up to this problem for a while.
    
    Did the vet recommend a special diet like Hill's C/D? If not, I
    urge you to ask your vet about it. It is a low ash food, and while
    it won't cure the problem, it will help. A lot of people balk at
    the price but since it is highly caloric, you feed your cat less
    of it. The added expense more than offsets the vet bills that this
    can prevent. Most vets sell it at their cost; I buy a 10 pound bag
    for $16.95, or about $1.70 a pound (this isn't much more than the
    supermarket dry food. Since I started to feed it to all my cats
    many people have commented on how great their coats are).
    
    Keep us posted on how Rascal is doing.

    Deb

    Re .8:
    
    We had a cat with FUS (now deceased).  When he was with us, we started
    feeding C/D dry to all the cats.  They loved it.  Now that Sammy's
    gone, we _still_ use C/D dry. 
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    I agree with the previous 2 replys about C/D, have been using it
    for 4 years in the hopes of not repeating the loss of a male cat
    8 years ago. So far Zach, a neutered male Coon has shown no problems
    and because he, and his sister, don't eat much of it the cost is
    very low in the long run. Does anybody have any experience with
    Science Diet made by the same company? The labels are almost identical
    but the Science Diet is cheaper. Also, Blue Seal feed stores sell
    an equivalent cat food but goes for under $5 a 10 pound bag. The
    feed store owner I talked with specifically pointed out that it
    is sold as a low ash (or magnesium) food. Any comments?

    I asked my vet about the difference between Science Diet and C/D.
    He said that they were basicly the same except:
    
    	1. C/D has a slightly lower ash content (5% opposed to 5.5%)
    	2. C/D will slightly acidify the cats urine (another thing to
	   consider with an FUS cat)
    	3. there is a little more calcium in Science Diet than C/D,
	   but it is not known how much (if any) calcium is needed
    	   by a cat.
    
    Given numbers 1&2, and an FUS cat that has cost me a fortune in
    vet bills, I prefer to pay a little extra and get the C/D.
    
    Deb

    My mother's cat, Mouse, had this same problem a year ago.  The vet
    told her to put him on low ash wet food (as stated in this note
    already) and to mix it with a powder like substance called Uroeze
    (not sure on the spelling).  He no longer has the problem.  I'll
    give you more info on the Uroeze next time I talk to her.
    
    

    Is FUS a problem with female cats as well?  Every case I've heard
    of has involved neutered males.
    
    Rita
    

    Yes it is.  I have 2 males cats and 1 female.  It is my female that
    has the urinary tract problems.  My vet tells me that FUS occurs
    almost as frequently in female cats.  The BIG difference is that
    females don't usually block because of their shorter urethra (?).
    It's a weird thing, because all my cats eat the same diet, yet it
    was the female that suffered from chronically alkaline urine.
    They're now all on Hill's C/D Diet.
    
    Donna
    

    I am very interested in the research going on on FUS. I was talking
    to our vet Dr. Morris (yes, that is really his name) a month ago
    and he was telling me that the researchers think that they are
    seeing a pattern with those cats that get FUS. They are seeing that
    most of the cats that are inflicted all have the same ph value for
    their urine, and it is slightly more alkline than the majority of
    the non-aflicted cats. 
    
    Deb

    Another update....
    
    Two days have gone by and Rascal seems better. No more puddles,
    except in the box and he seems a lot calmer now. 

    One of the medications (?) the vet gave us is Euroese (sp?) and
    the other is a pink liquid (I've looked at the label but can't remember
    what it is speficially, other than an antibiotic) that gets squirted
    down his throat twice a day (he's not too thrilled with that.....)
    
    Anyway, thanks for all the help and support. 
    
    janet b.

    HI...
    
    Final update - everything seems to have worked out just fine. Rascal
    has been off medication for a week now and we haven't had any more
    problems.
    
    We will be taking one more sample to the vet, just to make sure
    it shows up clean.
    
    But, just wanted to thank everyone again!
    
    janet b.  & RASCAL

    
    I had a similar problem about 18mths ago with my youngest, Sammie 
    It always happened after a storm or something that must of frightened
    him (he's very nervous anyway) but on a couple of occasions we found
    puddles on the worksurfaces in the kitchen and caught him in the
    act on top of the cooker.
    
    I didnt take him to the vet as it only happened a couple of times
    over 18mths but it seems like he wasn't happy with his surroundings.
    
    I'll explain,  shortly after this episode on the cooker we decorated
    (well renovated) our flat, completely re-furnishing the kitchen
    and he hasn't (touch-wood) done it since!!
    
    Perhaps he was just embarrased about bringing his friends round
    to the mess we used to live in??
    
    
    Sharon