Conference misery::feline_v1

    Hi there!
    	Your cats sound great!  I think you'll find that there are very
    few breeders that have the 'old' style siamese anymore, as they
    can't really be shown (the show standards call for the narrow wedge
    head).  However, there is a relatively new breed that was started
    by crossing siamese with burmese.  The breed is Tonkinese, and you
    may find them in shows in your area, though they are still somewhat
    rare.  I understand that their personalities are superb, and they
    have the added advantage of hybrid vigor, for good health.  They
    look very much like the apple headed siamese, with a somewhat muted
    colorpoint - ie the colors are somewhat different than the standard
    siamese colors (because the Burms are sable brown, or champagne
    colored).  They are gorgeous cats!  If anyone out there is more
    interested I may be able to look up in some of my breeder books,
    and let you know how to get in touch with a tonkinese breeder assoc.
    You might try 'Cats' magazine, or 'Cat Fancy' magazine.  Anyone
    know any Tonk breeders????
    	Good luck!
    
    Molly
         

    Hi,
    
    Your right, "Tonks" are very beautiful creatures.  Norma and Sharon
    Roy in Manchester NH (I think) have some really beautiful ones.
    They were very involved in getting the Tonks accepted in both CFF
    and CFA.  
    
    Oh, I've just found their address:
    
    361 Fremont St
    Manchester NH 03103  
    Ph:  603-625-8483
    
    I showed one of their Tonks for them at a show in Ohio 2 years ago,
    it was really alot of fun, and the cat was so docile and loveable.
    
    I believe that both Norma and Sharon are heavily involved in the
    Tonkinese Breed Association also.
    
    One thing that I noticed about the Tonks was that they had a different
    coat texture than the Siamese.
    
    Purrs
    cin
    

Gee, Cin, *we* always refer *you* when someone asks us about Persians...

...but you can't go wrong with Norma and Sharon.  They are on both the 
CFF and CFA breed councils, and Sharon is a CFF allbreed judge.

Ray  8^)  8^)  ;^)  8^~

    Ooooops, Sorry Ray, I wasn't really sure exactly what you bred,
    believe it or not, I knew you has some "shorthairs", but I also
    thought you had persians....
    
    Gee, I think it's time I get myself back to a cat show!!!  
    
    BTW, I'm going to be going to the Marlboro Show on November 8th,
    just for a visit....will you be there???  I'm looking forward to
     seeing everyone again, it seems like it's been sooooo long!!
    
    Who knows, maybe you'll see me showing again in January...
    
    purrs
    cin
    

    
    
    Marlboro show?  November 8th???  Please tell me more.  I have Abbys,
    but I have been thinking that I just don't have enough cats (only
    4, now that the last litter is all sold off) and I was thinking of
    getting into some other flavor of cat.  Russian blue, I think, but
    I'm not sure yet.
    
    I don't show very often.  Only when I am about to mate one of my
    females will I show her.  Then I will only show her once.  If she
    champions, fine.  The kittens will sell faster.  If she doesn't,
    it is just as well.  I love having the little furries around for
    a little longer anyway.
    
    So I guess I would like a bit more info about the Marlboro show.
    
                                              Thanks
                                               
    
    
    
    

    Thanks for the info. on the Tonkinese.  When the time comes for
    new kittens, I will look into them.  I wish they would still breed
    the appled-cheeked Siamese, though.  The really long noses look
    like Greyhounds--very undignified for a Siamese!  About the Tonkinese,
    are they vocal?  After living with my two "motor-mouths" for all
    these years, I couldn't stand an animal who either didn't answer
    you and/or didn't have something to say about anything and everything!
    

    The Marlboro show is sponsored by the Central Mass Feline Fanciers.
    It will be h eld at the Assabet Valley High School on Pleasant Street
    in Marlboro.  Exit 25A off of Route 495 then follow signs for the
    Cat Show.  For information call: 617-485-1283  
    
    Hours are from 9 a.m. - 5 p.m. on Saturday, November 8th.
    
    This is a C.F.F. sponsored show.  
    
    It's too late to enter the show, but I'm sure it will be fun just
    to go and look around.
    
    purrs
    cin
    

    Yes, Tonkinese are just as vocal as Siamese.  At least the ones
    I've been fortunate to have met.  
    
    P.S.  Have you seen the entry in this note from Ray Fusci.  He would
    be a real good source for Tonkinese, and he's a Deccie!!!  You may
    want to send him mail to talk about the breed, or maybe start a
    specific note here about Tonks.
    
    Purrs
    cin
    

    
    
    
    RE: 363.5
    
    Ruddy Abbys have always been a favorite of mine-although our
    only pure-bred is a Scottish Fold (shipped in from Arizona,
    no less!)
    
    Could you tell me MORE about ABBYS?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Michaelene
    
    

    Re .9
    
    See note 298 for a discussion on Abyssinians by various devotees
    (me included!)
    
    SLP

    
    
    I love this "Hello" topic!!!  It's sort of like listening in on a party
    line, where various conversations are going on at one time.  There
    is a good deal to be said for this sort of random exchange, since
    we can all put our two cents in on any topic, and get a reference
    to existing details within FELINE when it is needed.

re: .8   8^)

re: .6

>					 I wish they would still breed
>    the appled-cheeked Siamese, though.  The really long noses look
>    like Greyhounds--very undignified for a Siamese!

The popularity of Tonks is in part due to this very attitude.  I sometimes 
tease friends of mine who breed Siamese and OSH's by telling them that 
their cats remind me of medium-sized rats...only the *real* good friends, 
though.  There are very few breeders who don't show, and if you were 
breeding apple-headed siamese, you wouldn't do anything at shows, since the 
standard has evolved over the years.

>						       About the Tonkinese,
>    are they vocal?  After living with my two "motor-mouths" for all
>    these years, I couldn't stand an animal who either didn't answer
>    you and/or didn't have something to say about anything and everything!
    
They're vocal, but in a bit of a different way.  When we call to our cats, 
they'll answer back.  If they're hungry, they'll tell us.  If they want to 
get our attention, they'll tell us.  But unlike most siamese I know, 
they'll *occasionally* be quiet, and they *don't* have that tone of voice 
that puts your ears on edge.  They're very people-oriented.

Ray

    re: .12
    
    Ray,  Thanks for all the good info about the Tonkinese!  I will
    keep it in mind when the time comes.  Unlike most Siamese, mine
    do not have that ungodly sound (aren't I lucky?).  Mutu has a variety
    of purrs, squeaks, coos, grunts - you name it.  She talks so much
    that she gets hoarse!  Munch has become much more talkative in his
    old age, and, sometimes does wail, but only when he's very upset.
    
    I'm planning to attend the Marlboro show on 11/8 and will check
    out the Tonkinese.  Have you ever heard of a Siamsese/OSH breeder
    in N.H. by the name of "Catspaw"?  I met her at the Boston show
    a year ago, and she still breeds the apple-cheeked Siamese.  As
    she told me they won't win blue ribbons, but they always win seconds.
    Is she still in business?
    
    Thanks for your help,
    J
    

re: 363.13
    
>    I'm planning to attend the Marlboro show on 11/8 and will check
>    out the Tonkinese.

Oooops, we forgot to enter Marlboro!  One of us will be at the R.I. show on 
Sunday, though.  Hopefully some other Tonk breeders will make Marlboro.

>			 Have you ever heard of a Siamsese/OSH breeder
>    in N.H. by the name of "Catspaw"?

I've asked around, and no one I know has heard of "Catspaw" (which means 
she doesn't show CFF/CFA much, or at all).  If you have a little more 
information, like her name, or who put on the show you saw her in, I could 
try to ask around a little more.  She *may* just be a "backyard" breeder, 
whose emphasis is on selling pets, rather than breeding/showing, which 
would be consistent with breeding "apple-headed" siamese.

Ray

    Ray,
    
    RE:  Catspaw.  I met her at the Boston show a couple of years ago.
    She's located in N. Ossippee, N.H.  We almost bought a year-old
    lilac-point, who looked exactly like my female.  Mutu (our lady)
    has a lovely wedge-shaped face; as a matter of fact, her mother
    was a grand-champion seal-point, and her father was a grand-
    champion blue-point who weighed in at 22 pounds!  By the way,
    Mutu means black-faced in Tamal, which is an Indian dialect.
    Getting back to breeders:  my vet has sent people to Catspaw
    in the past, but not recently; so perhaps she is out of business.
    
    Thanks for your help,
    Joan
    

    I have to ask....these "supposed" Grand Champions....How old were
    they???  I have trouble believing that any siamese that is 22 lbs
    could win a ribbon, never mind a grand championship!!!   If I'm
    correct the average weight of a siamese should be around 7 lbs.
    
    just wondering...
    cin
    

re:  weight

I agree, Cindy.  I've never even *seen* a Siamese/OSH in a show ring that 
weighed more than eight or so pounds.

re:  Boston show

This isn't descriptive enough.  Info that would help would be the name of 
the club that put on the show, or the name of the association that 
sanctioned the show, or even the date and exact location of the show. 
(We've been to a few shows that could be called "Boston".)  With this, I 
could see if it was likely that anyone I know was there, and if so, they 
probably kept the show catalog.  In the show catalog, there is a list of 
every exhibitor at that show.

Ray

    Ray and Cin:
    
    Mutu is 14 years old, but acts like a one-year-old.  Her lineage
    is from a cattery in Pennsylvania.  Her father and mother won their
    grand championships when they were a year or so old, so I'm sure
    weighed much less.  Also, I'm sure the point requirements have changed
    over the years.  By the way, Munchkin's maternal grandparents were
    both from Bombay, India; his grandfather (Bik-Bik) weighed in at
    about 18 pounds!  Their "cousin", Livingston, is a gorgeous seal-point,
    who weighs about 17 pounds!  Both his parents were also grand
    champions.  So...  Aren't championships won when the kitties are
    about a year or so old?  Perhaps they haven't reached their full
    weight at that point?
    
    re:  Boston show
    
    It was a CIFA-sponsored event, held at the Copley Plaza Hotel about
    3 years ago.  I'm not sure of any other particulars, but do remember
    that the Himmies were just becoming the "rage".  Any help?
    
    Regards,
    Joan
    
    P.S. Looking forward to meeting you, Cin, on Saturday.
    

re: CATSPAW

Yes, that was enough data to identify the show, etc.

To make a long story short, I ended up calling CFA, and asked them to look 
up CATSPAW.  

CATSPAW is registered to a man in Colorado.  "Further Deponent sayeth not."

Ray