Conference back40::soapbox

    i think LL Bean loves this guy.

    Seems pretty reasonable- at least for a guy that's running for
    president. Unfortunately, I don't know much about where he is on the
    issues. The press doesn't seem to be paying him much attention.

    
    http://www.vote-smart.org  has a lot of info on all the candidates.

    Is this the guy that goes stalking around city streets in a
    flannel shirt?  If so, flush him... this ain't a fergin' costume
    party.  If not, then I humbly apologize... :-)
    
    Chris

    Same guy. I think the flannel shirt is kind of hokey, but to dismiss
    him on the basis of that is what gets us the kind of "leadership" we've
    had.

    It's not the shirt, but rather the "carefully-designed-and-executed
    image first" mentality that it represents.  I doubt he'd be wearing
    that particular costume if the nation's first primary were in, say,
    Ohio or some other "urban" area.
    
    But in any event, I'm mostly kidding.  This every-four-years circus
    is simultaneously a source of great frustration and great amusement.
    
    If I were him, the first thing I'd have done is reverse my first
    and last names...
    
    Chris

Ralto Chris, Ohio's urban?

    Ohio has several urban areas though south of Akron, you might as well
    be in Kentucky or West Virginia.  

    
    Not the Topaz tells it...
    

    Well, okay, I was thinking of Cleveland, Cincinnati, Akron the bowling
    capital of the world, and others.  Anyway, it's gotta be more urban
    than New Hampshire, just ask Mike Barnicle.
    
    Chris

    Toledo, Columbus and Dayton.  Let's not forget the cultural mecca of
    the soft underbelly of Lake Erie stretching from Toledo to Cleveland. 
    With towns like Ashtabula and Parma.  

    Maybe he's trying to pick up on the Al Borland sympathy vote...
    
    Dunno about these southern governors, just remember the two most
    recent ex-guv's. If I were him, I wouldn't be using that as one
    of my bargaining chips.

He has ran very hard for President.

He has tried very very hard to respond as the voters want.

I don't have a clue who he really is.

    has run. nnttm

    I donno, he isnt as extream as many. Not off the edge as Bucanon, not
    as obserd as Forbs, seems mild compaired to Dole... Tuff call. Best
    said by Taylor they are all laywers and all rejects from a law firm.:)

    
    <-- that really hurts my head.
    

    
      Surprisingly good Ia showing for Lamar, the "outsider".  This
     is the Carter-Clinton track, former guv of a southern state.  If
     he can follow it in NH, he could be a contendah.
    
      bb

So how 'bout this guy? So far the worst we've been able to accuse him of 
in here is that we don't know where he stands on issues and we don't like
his shirt (I do, but ...).

Slick's folks are trying to make a stink about some financial mis-management
on his part, as a smokescreen for Whitewater or something. Should we suppose
Slick is more concerned that Lamar has a chance than any of the Republican
rivals are?

This guy may bear some watching before the primary next week.

    One of Forbe's attack ads accuses Alexander of turning a $1 investment
    into a $650k profit. Shades of Hillary Clinton sweetheart deal. It's
    pretty tough to be critical of Hillary and not be critical of Alexander
    (assuming the attack ad is not a fabrication.) 
    
     That said, he appears to be fairly moderate, which is helpful when we
    consider that winning the primaries is not a useful exercise if you are
    not electable in the general election. Dole has been in the senate for
    an eon; he's got a number of negatives (fair and unfair), and will have
    great difficulty beating Clinton in the general election particularly
    since Clinton can use his office to promise bribes to California
    voters. In a close race, such tactics cannot be discounted.
    
     There is some hope that a candidate like Alexander could defuse some
    of the "terror" apparently instilled by the republicans in the minds of
    a great many (I won't say it) voters.
    
     Unfortunately, this campaign so far has not been about issues. I can't
    tell you what Alexander's positions are. The only two candidates whose
    positions I can state are Dole and Buchanan. I think Buchanan has an
    even smaller chance of beating Clinton than Dole, and I'm not sure I'd
    prefer Buchanan to Clinton considering his protectionist leanings which
    will only have a negative long term effect on our economy. At least
    Clinton has that right.
    
     Lamar has to stop worrying about what shirt he's wearing and start
    stressing his stances on the issues facing america- the federal
    budget, education, the environment, the economy, job security, welfare
    restructuring, crime, etc. His biggest problem is a lack of campaign
    money to get the message out.
    
     I'm considering voting for him just to keep him around long enough
    that we can find out what he's about. Of the remaining candidates, he
    seems to be the best chance of taking the critical middle of the road
    vote from Clinton. There are a lot of people who are going to vote with
    the incumbent as a default. The republicans somehow have to convince
    some of these people to vote for the challenger. With the current crop
    of candidates, that's likely to be a tough sell. They're going to need
    a very strong VP candidate like a Colin Powell or perhaps Christine
    Todd Whitman, both of whom are practically unassailable by the
    democrats, in order to garner votes.
    
     If it comes down to a footrace between Dole and Buchanan, we are in
    for rought sledding. As it is now, there is a strong possibility, even
    a probability that the race is unwinnable due to the Buchanan factor.
    He's viewed incredibly negatively by non-RR voters. Perhaps somewhat
    unfairly, but there it is. And if he is allowed to shape the platform
    like he did in 92, you can forget about a republican controlled
    government. And that's what I see happening.

    
      I, too, might take another look at Lamar.  Perhaps I dismissed
     the guy too soon.  Guvs and former guvs have made the bulk of
     our recent prexies, for good or ill.  What does anybody in here
     know about Alexander ?
    
      bb

    I think he's the one for the National Sales Tax.

    No more governors of small Southern states.
    
    'Nuff said?

  .>  What does anybody in here
   >  know about Alexander ?
    
    
     He looks like William Shallert, Patty Duke's father?




 Jim

    i don't know.  alexander strikes me as a bill clinton alter
    ego.  all goo-goo eyes and smiles, but nothing underneath 
    the surface.  another "outsider".  

    
      The cause being cited for his good showing in Ia is "low-key
     civility".  Some of the farmers found this refreshing.
    
      bb

>     He looks like William Shallert, Patty Duke's father?

If true, this would tend to alleviate one of the major concerns I had about
him. I was thinking he might be unelectable as there was nothing there for
Lorne Michaels to caricature on SNL.

 I'll have to give credit to Howie Carr for pointing out that Lamar looks
 like Shallert (though I'd thought about it before).



 Jim

    Lamar Alexander was in office when I lived in Tennessee.

    The good news is that everything that you can say about what President 
    Clinton did as governor of Arkansas you can say about Alexander, but 
    Alexander did it better.

    Alexander made major reforms in education, but that's not unusual.
    Most states have made reforms.  The difference is that Tennessee 
    schools not only improved, but they moved up in comparison with other 
    states.  Furthermore, the NEA will go all out to destroy this guy.  
    Alexander instituted the "Master Teacher" program to pay more money to 
    keep good teachers on the job.  The NEA wanted across-the-board increases.
    They didn't get it.  Teachers got more money for students that did well on
    the standardized tests and for getting advanced degrees.

    Furthermore, what Steve Forbes says about tax increases is true.  
    Alexander paid for his education reform by raising taxes.  When he 
    proposed his education program, he had already cut and reorganized 
    state government.  He held town meetings and public addresses saying 
    that we as citizens had a choice: cut essential state services and put
    the money into education, raise taxes, or accept second-rate schools.
    The citizens choose the tax increases.  Many felt that Alexander had 
    already cut waste and didn't see an alternative.  It was an excellent
    example of leadership, particularly for a Republican governor in a state
    with a slightly higher percentage of registered Democrats.

    Alexander also worked hard to bring new industry into the state.  Like
    President Clinton, he offered tax incentives and infrastructure.  Unlike
    President Clinton, there is no evidence that he looked the other way 
    when key industries violated environmental and health regulations.
    Furthermore, while Arkansas got jobs "processing" chicken and making 
    cardboard, Alexander helped bring the automobile industry (e.g. Nissan 
    and Saturn) and computer companies to Tennessee (e.g. Motorola).

    Another interesting thing about Alexander's leadership style is that he
    only gets personally involved when the stakes are high.  In general, he
    is well organized, surrounds himself with good people, and lets them do
    their job.  One of the things that got President Carter and President
    Clinton into trouble early in their administrations is that they didn't
    know how to delegate.  Both showed these tendencies as governor.
    Alexander probably won't make that mistake.

    Also, don't underestimate Alexander's creativity.  Unlike Clinton, 
    Alexander practiced law, and he was pretty good.  In one famous case, 
    long before he ran for office, he found a legal way to allow his client,
    a restaurant chain, to sell mixed drinks in "dry" counties.

    Which bings up another difference between Lamar Alexander and President
    Clinton: Alexander has had a real carrer outside of politics.

    And now the bad news:

    First of all, I agree 100% with those that say "enough of ex-governors
    from southern states".  I don't think that running a state like Georgia, 
    Arkansas, or Tennessee is adequate preparation for running the White 
    House.  The last two "Washington outsiders" who came to Washington got
    chewed up and spit out.  Also, someone who has been around Washington 
    already has a few political friends and allies.  If that person wants 
    to change the system -- or even just survive -- they are going to need 
    all the friends they can get.  Futhermore, the people that Alexander
    would bring to Washington to help him would probably not be as 
    effective: Washington politics is a little different than southern 
    politics.

    Secondly, I am certainly concerned that allegations of wrongdoing will
    be made against Alexander as they were for Clinton.  Unless you're 
    you're from Chicago, most people just don't understand how ingrained 
    the political patronage is in the South.  When you look at Whitewater
    or the cattle futures investments, please realize that that's the way
    things are done in much of southern politics.  Lamar Alexander replaced  
    a governor who was indicted in the "clemency for cash" scandal.  It was
    later proven in court that the governor of Tennessee was releasing 
    convicts from state prisons in exchange for "compensation".  Alexander
    took office somewhat early to prevent Governor Blanton from signing any 
    more release orders.

    Granted, maybe Alexander is different.  It would appear that President 
    Carter was pretty honest when he was governor, but Lamar Alexander is 
    no Jimmy Carter [!].  Alexander does not project Carter's philosophy 
    that trustworthiness and honesty are all-important.  Alexander is sharp 
    guy who wants results.  In the process, he probably traded favors.
    He probably has the evidence well-hidden, too.  However, if allegations 
    are made, let's say I won't be surprised.

    No, I won't vote for Alexander, mostly because I don't thing that he's
    ready.  I won't vote for Steve Forbes, either.  He's even less prepared.
    He hasn't done anything in his life.  Furthermore, there is no evidence 
    that he can survive in a political arena in which he has influence 
    instead of power.  (A President is not like a CEO.)  Besides, his flat 
    tax is a budget buster, and the deficit is the most important threat to 
    the stability of the country.

    I'll probably hold my nose and vote for Senator Dole.

    
    
    RE: .28  Question-What did Alexander do with the savings that were
    realized from making government more efficeint?  
    
    1) tax cuts?
    
    2) funnel to other programs? 
    
    3) balance the budget?
    
    4) other?
    
    
    
    The last 2 outsiders I remember, are Clinton and Reagan.  I don't see
    one of them as a failure.  Let's see if you all can guess which one....
    :')

    >First of all, I agree 100% with those that say "enough of ex-governors
    >from southern states".  I don't think that running a state like Georgia, 
    >Arkansas, or Tennessee is adequate preparation for running the White 
    >House.  The last two "Washington outsiders" who came to Washington got
    >chewed up and spit out.  Also, someone who has been around Washington 
    >already has a few political friends and allies.  
    
     According to Alexander, he's done work in Washington and "knows his
    way around." This seems to be confirmed by one of Forbes' attack ads
    that accuses him of being a Washington insider for having done work in
    Washington during the Reagan and Bush administrations (don't remember
    what, though.)
    
     Thanks for adding some information. Frankly, I feel like hearing what
    he's got to say even more given his demonstrated successes in the
    educational arena. 

    Re: .21
    
    Lugar is for a national sales/VAT tax.  As stated in today's Wall
    Street Journal review of Lamar Alexander, "He vaguely proposes a
    simplified tax system and an end to capital-gains taxes." 
    
    /jim

             <<< Note 636.29 by GRANPA::MWANNEMACHER "CONFUSION" >>>

    
    
>   RE: .28  Question-What did Alexander do with the savings that were
>   realized from making government more efficeint?  
>
    MY ANSWER: No tax cuts.  He balanced the budget.
    
    
>   The last 2 outsiders I remember, are Clinton and Reagan.  I don't see
>   one of them as a failure.  Let's see if you all can guess which one....

    The two outsiders that I was thinking of, naturally, were Carter and
    Clinton.  Reagan was also an outsider, but had been governor of a 
    much larger state.

    
    
    Thanks.
    
    
    Mike

             <<< Note 636.30 by WAHOO::LEVESQUE "memory canyon" >>>

>    According to Alexander, he's done work in Washington and "knows his
>   way around." This seems to be confirmed by one of Forbes' attack ads
>   that accuses him of being a Washington insider for having done work in
>   Washington during the Reagan and Bush administrations (don't remember
>   what, though.)

    Wasn't he Education Secretary in the Bush Administration?

    Yes, he's done some work in Washington, but I have serious doubts 
    that he has made that many friends.  Furthermore, as I said, the 
    people that he would bring to Washington as part of his inner circle
    would probably not do as well.

    
>    Thanks for adding some information. Frankly, I feel like hearing what
>   he's got to say even more given his demonstrated successes in the
>   educational arena. 

    Yes, but just about every state went through an educational reform 
    effort during that period.  There was a significant effort made,
    often at the grassroots level, to get education back on track.  He 
    did pretty well, but it isn't that spectacular.

Kevin,
    Thanks for the info and insights on Alexander.

    
    His piano playing ain't so hot either.

Is it better than Slick's sax?

	he was on one of those morning talk shows earlier this week.  they
	only give you about a 5-minute spot (which drives me absolutely
	nuthouse anyways), and he spent a bunch of it blah, blah, blahing,
	and smugly, i might add, about he's the only one not running
	a negative campaign (oh yeah?) and a bunch of it blah, blah,
	blahing about how he's such a Washington outsider.  what a waste
	of time.  kinda made me wonder.

    he's barely running a campaign, period. great guy, upped state sales
    tax 85% and voted for the release of violent criminals after serving
    only a fraction of their time. 
    
    sounds like a solid guy to me...

 
 Why doesn't he talk like a Tennesseean?  




 Jim

    
    One of the 4 governors who started the Dept of Indoctrination (oops...
    Education)'s Goals 2000.  Stated in a speech in 1990 that he believed
    children should begin their education at age 3.5 months.
    
    BTW, one of the other 4 governors was Bill Clintonista.
    
    A real conservative, yes he is.
    

re: Jim

Mebbe he came from Northern Tennessee . . . 

 could be.  My pastor comes from Tennessee and has lived in this area
 for ~20 years and still has quite an accent.



 Jim

    was he named after Hedy or sumthin?

That's _HEDLY_!

 What in the wide, wide world of sports is going on here?

    I don't know.  Ask Count da-money.

    
    	De MONET!!
    

    It's good ta be da king.

To vote for Lamar or Alan ????



Decisions, decisions .....

    We know Alan is going to lose.  The question is will a high enough
    percentage cause others in the country to take him as a viable
    candidate.

    
      Lamar did OK.  He's into the final 3, and I think he'll now go
     on to the convention.  If there's a 3-way delegate split, then
     ANYTHING can happen.
    
      When/where is the Republican National Convention this year ?
    
      bb

>      When/where is the Republican National Convention this year ?
    
 

 San Diego, in August.



 Jim

    Lamar did very well, coming from 5% a week ago to 23% in the actual
    primary. He's seen as the moderate alternative to perennial runner up
    Dole. It's worth having him stick around long enough to find out what
    he's about, anyway. Hopefully he'll get some money out of this showing,
    so as to enable other good showings. He could be the 1996 Carter
    (another ex-gov who came out of obscurity). 

Not to mention the 1996 Clinton.

    
    I told you not to mention him.
    

    Anybody as wishy washy as Lamar deserves what they get;a rep clinton
    lookalike.

    Isn't his claim to fame that he ran a business with Captain Kangeroo? 
    I understand the Captain was fired from his show for being a pot fiend
    with Green Jeans.  Therefore, Lamar may very well be a pot fiend as
    well.

	But did Lamar inhale? Did he do Jennifer Flowers???

    
    Alexander, if I heard right, isn't on the ballot in a couple of big
    states with upcoming primaries (NY one of them?).
    
    Going to be hard to keep momentum going if that's the case.
    
    Also -- he does need a victory, not a showing.
    
    

NY's rules are pretty arcane.  According to an article in this morning's paper,
Buchanan's on the ballot in only 13 out of 31 congressional districts.  Dole's
on the ballot in all 31, and Forbes has shelled out to get on in 27.  The others
have opted out.  NY has 102 delegates.  996 are needed to nominate.

>    I understand the Captain was fired from his show for being a pot fiend
>    with Green Jeans.

Source? Or, is this just something you "heard"?

>    Therefore, Lamar may very well be a pot fiend as well.

Sound logic, there, Jacko.

    Something I heard.

    I wonder if those red and black flannel shirts are US made or
    imports...
    
    

 Mr. Alexander's buzzword for the day: "Buchananism"  Guess he and
 Mr. Dole both are intolerant of intolerance and "Buchananism"..are these
 guys worried? Nah....



 Jim

 Sounds as if Mr. Alexander will bow out of the race on Wednesday.





 Jim

    supposed to today with Mr. Lugar.

    stick a fork in 'im, he's done...

    
      Officially withdrew yesterday, and now supporting Dole.
    
      bb

      Officially withdrew yesterday, and now bashing Buchanan.