Conference back40::soapbox

    
    Glycol.
    

And your dog will love it!

    
    and its only sold at the finest of taverns.

    It glycol, probably heated, can't be disposed of in your wastewater or
    storm sewer, has an attractive smell/taste that most animals can't
    resist, and kills them.
    
    Bob

    
    << has an attractive smell/taste that most animals can't resist,
    and kills them.
    
    hhmmmmm, maybe we should send some to congress.

    
    Wow.  We have a "glycol" topic.  What next?   :^)
    

    Ethylene Glycol, one of my favourite country music artists.

    Didn't she do the "Mr Plow" song?
    
    	Mr Plow is a loser
    	And I think he is a boozer...
    
    

    
    The larger airports have specially engineered ramp areas where
    they dispense the deice stuff onto the airplanes and the
    pavement has catch basins and drains that funnel the over
    spray and drips into holding tanks for recycling.  The stuff
    ain't cheap and the EPA doesn't like putting it into the
    normal storm drains.  But it beats having ice on the wings.

    .9
    
    What beats having ice on the wings is avoiding the use of airplanes as
    a mode of transportation.

    
    Those infernal flying machines!!
    

    
    > What beats having ice on the wings is avoiding the use of airplanes
    > as a mode of transportation.
    
    Well if folks would stop lining up to use the things to go places
    the industry would fail and your problems would go away.  Ya just
    gotta convince all your friends and acquaintances to drive, no, go
    back to using horses.  That's it.  Ride a horse to Florida for
    vacation.  Yup.

    .11
    
    From the Curmudgeon's Dictionary:
    
        airplane  n.  A cigar-shaped counterfeit bird with an alarming
        propensity for falling out of the sky at inconvenient times and in
        equally inconvenient places.

    
    	But horses bite people sometimes.
    
    	Ban horses!!
    

    
    Hey, I ain't takin' no boat 'cross the Atlantic...boats sink!!
    

    Thanks to an 1 hour delay (sprayer ran out of juice) de-icing our plane in 
    Colorado Springs, I got to run through crowded DIA with stroller, car seat, 
    3 carry-on bags, wife, baby, and 5 year old to the connecting flight where 
    the ramp was already retracted.  We finally boarded and made it to our
    destination.  Our luggage arrived 12 hours later.
    
    Returning from Florida (snow-free), the airline went into 15 minute
    update mode - hydraulic fluid problem.  Two hours later we boarded,
    the tow bar was attached to the front landing gear and we pushed 
    back only to suddenly stop.  The 3 stooges towing service had caused
    the tow bar to deattach and it rammed to landing gear.  Now we sat
    in a hot plane for 30 minutes while the pros decided what to do.
    After waiting in lines to find another flight, we left 4 hours late.
    On a different airline.
    
    Next time I air travel, it won't be during holidays !
    

    
    The airlines have certainly turned commercial air travel
    into an annoying, onoxious, event.  But then, airlines are
    really run by accountants, not by folks who like traveling.
    The pilots fly the equipment they are given and the cabin
    crew hands out whatever is loaded aboard labelled "food".
    
    Kill Devil Hill these days  doesn't look much like it did in
    1903 when the Wright brothers were there.  But every year
    on a day early in December, two things happen there.  Somehow,
    a flight of U.S. Navy fighters comes smoking in from out to sea
    and blasts overhead at the exact time that the Wright's very
    first flight lifted off.  And the members of the "Man Will Never
    Fly" society are doing their thing.  Their motto is:
    
                    "Birds Fly, Men Drink"
                  

    
    <--- get yee to topic 19 and identify yourself. who are all these
    blue smurfs lately?????

Get thee to topic 548!

    Watching the local news. To de-ice a plane, its about $1000 per bath.
    Champaine anyone?:)
    

>    Watching the local news. To de-ice a plane, its about $1000 per bath.

  Does that include fluid recycling costs?
  If there are 100 passengers on board, that's $10 per passenger. I guess it's
worth it.    

>       <<< Note 626.10 by SMURF::BINDER "Eis qui nos doment vescimur." >>>
    
>    What beats having ice on the wings is avoiding the use of airplanes as
>    a mode of transportation.

  What do you suggest as an alternative? 

    .23
    
    Cars, trains, ships, bicycles, feet.  Use as appropriate.
    
    Airplanes, if one ignores their tendency to kill large numbers of
    people at once, are noisy, uncomfortable, and inconvenient; they also
    serve the lousiest imitation of food I've had outside a moribund
    greasy spoon diner.
    
    I use airplanes only in situations when I cannot work out some other
    mode of transportation that satisfies time constraints.  During the
    summer of '83, I spent several thousand dollars more on transportation
    in order to travel by train.  FIrst class.  With food that, if not
    four-star quality, was at least not execrable.

    
    
    Ahhh.... you're just a chicken aero-phobe!!!!
    
    >Airplanes, if one ignores their tendency to kill large numbers of 
    >people at once,
    
    What's the stats vs. your other modes of transport???
    

    I'll betcha he has no qualms about taking a ferry ride.

    .25
    
    > What's the stats vs. your other modes of transport???
    
    From the Curmudgeon's Dictionary:
    
        statistics  n.  Mathematical figures purporting to describe reality,
        sufficiently arcane that they can be explained in whatever way makes
        the prospects most attractive to the customer.
    
    The simple facts are that stats for other modes of transport, such as
    cars, include all the people who:
    
    o   drive s***boxes (I don't.)
    
    o   drive drunk (I don't.)
    
    o   forget the basic laws of physics and drive up the next guy's
        tailpipe (I don't.)
    
    o   allow the people in the preceding item to pursue their idiocy (I
        don't.)
    
    o   neglect to wear a seatbelt (I don't.)
    
    o   ignore traffic signs and signals (I don't.)
    
    ...and so on.  Sure, I'm statistically more likely to die in a car than
    you are in an airplane.  I'll take the chance that I might be able to
    avoid an accident - having done so several times and in most of those
    cases watched the accidents happen from a position of safety.  If your
    airplane decides to crash, you have such a statistically small chance
    of surviving that I think, all in all, I come out ahead.

    
    
    Ahhh.... you're just PO'd cause you can't have your hand on the control
    stick...  :) :) :)
    

    
      Agree with Binder.  Flying, although sometimes necessary, is
     awful.  I don't trust their statistics, or their calming voices
     from the cockpit.  They are hurtling you through the vois in a
     deathtrap of twisted metal and explosive chemicals.  And serving
     you dogfood while they do it.
    
      bb

    .28
    
    > hand on the control stick
    
    I do freely admit that the few times a friend handed over the stick of
    his Citabria to me, I had a helluva good time.

    
    	How can you not trust the statistics??  A smaller amount of people
    	have died on commercial airplane flights than have died in auto-
    	mobiles.  But then again, I'm sure an even smaller number of people
    	have died on commercial trains.
    

    It's not safe to play with wild cats like that.

    
    re: .30
    
    Ain't it fun though!!!!!!!
    
    :) :)

    RE: .31
    
>    	How can you not trust the statistics??  A smaller amount of people
>    	have died on commercial airplane flights than have died in auto-
>    	mobiles.  But then again, I'm sure an even smaller number of people
>    	have died on commercial trains.

    Given how long passenger trains have been in business, I don't know if
    that would be an accurate statement.  Of course the municple water that
    was served in New York in the early 1800's was absolutely deadly ...
    everyone who drank it is now dead.

    -- Dave   

 If I  have the time, and my destination is on the route map, I'll take
 Amtrak.  Fun way to travel (and catch up on reading to boot!).




Jim

    
    My feeling on flying:
    
    	0-150 miles I drive.
    	150-300 miles toss up - I'll usually drive.
    	300+ miles - Usually will fly, but it depends on circumstances.
    
    Buses - I generally refuse them.  They have the downside of flying 
    (having to hit the schedules and wait for the bus to show), are slower
    then driving (always stopping), I hate their smell, and you can't crank
    the radio.
    
    Trains can be okay - but I can usually do better driving.
    
    	Skip

From a mailing list on adopting from the former USSR:

                          Although we were very nervous about flying
Aeroflot from Moscow to Rostov and back (especially after seeing the plane
being de-iced by a man standing on the wing with a snow-shovel and a
broom), the flight was uneventful...

    
    	Better than seeing him carrying a couple cases of "Sno-Be-Gone"
    	spray cans.
    

	Gee, thanks guys. 

	I have to get on a plane tommorrow AM and it's snowing like crazy
	here at the moment.

	It doesn't help to know that this aircraft will be sitting out
	all night, either.

Jim

You're flying Aeroflot?  BTW, their flights to/from the U.S. are supposed to
be reasonably safe, since they have to meet U.S. standards.

    I talked to a guy who had just flown Cancun to Havana and back on
    Aeroflot built plane (AirHavana was the airlines I think).  Soon after
    takeoff from Cancun, condensation started rising from under the
    flooring.  The passengers thought the plane was on fire.
    
    Apparently Mexico to Cuba is an easy way for US citizens to visit Cuba.
    
    -- Jim

   <<< Note 626.41 by NOTIME::SACKS "Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085" >>>

>You're flying Aeroflot? 

	Nah, UAL (logo: "The DEC, err, Digital Corporate Airline).
	Springs to Denver, Denver to San Fransico, Denver to Tokyo,
	Tokyko to Singapore.

	Elapsed time, on the order of 30 hours.

	Maybe this belongs in the TTHT.

Jim

Which part are you leaving in Frisco, Jim?

I hope it's polite, as it will need to visit Jim Henderson's Mom

         <<< Note 626.44 by MOLAR::DELBALSO "I (spade) my (dogface)" >>>

>Which part are you leaving in Frisco, Jim?

	That'll teach me to note and partake of fruit of the Highlands
	and the same time.

	;-)

Jim

 Yes, while changing planes in SFO, face south and say "Hi" to my mom!




 Jim

    Jim,
    
    How is your mom in SF anyway?

 I don't have one in SF, but I have one in San Carlos, about 10-15 miles
 south of SF.  She's fine, at least she was last time I spoke to her.



 Jim

    As soon as you hung up, she prolly went insane.

 Heck, I drove her there along time ago ;-)

re .42:

I think the phrase "Aeroflot built plane" is more or less equivalent to
"TWA built plane."  Airlines don't build planes.  Cubana Airlines flies
Fokker F27's and Tupolev Tu-154's between Cancun and Havana.  Mexicana de
Aviacion flies DC-9's and Fokker F27's on the same route.