Conference back40::soapbox

       > any idea where I could find info on [anything]
       
       Certainly not here.

    Debbie:
    
    You can find out from me.  Labor Unions are the most un American, self
    centered, debased consortium of leeches you will ever find.  In years
    past, they had their place.  They still screwed the workers out of
    money and extorted from those who participated; however, they did help
    to establish laws that seem to be necessary to adding to the value of
    living.  
    
    They are now outdated, run by the mob, heavy handed, extortionists. 
    Whomever you are asking this for, tell them it is in their best
    interest to maintain their integrity and stay away from these people. 
    They are bad!!!
    
    -Jack

	Jack, did you order a book on unions or something?

    
      The World Almanac.  Alas, 1990 is my most recent at work, and
     it only has figures 1930-88.  Total union membership has been static
     in the USA since the late fifties, in the 16-17 million area.  This
     represents a decline from 30% to 16% of total labor up to 1988.
    
      I know from a survey, about 1/3 of workers in the USA prefer to
     belong to unions, 2/3 prefer not to.
    
      There has been a shift over the years, so that most public workers
     are unionized, very few private workers.  Remember, US labor is 3
     service to 1 manufacturing, and agricultural is tiny.  More than half
     of US labor today considers itself white collar, and has at least
     some college.  This group has a strong anti-union slant, preferring
     NOT to see their employers as opponents, but as allies.
    
      bb

    
    Jack is 100% correct on this matter.
    
    -b

    Membership is down.
    
    Without being unpc... I'd say unions are for unskilled labor.
    They are a joke.
    
    I know what I know, I set my price.  Many of us are this way.
    If you sack grocerys or tighten bolts all day long, you are
    at the whim of the company.
    
    I have no idea where unions fit in to todays economy, but I want no
    part of them.  Why does your car cost $35,000?  Cause the guy
    that screwed the tire on makes $28/hour.    

    |that screwed the tire on makes $28/hour.

    This is no longer the case. The big three automakers have changed this
    by subcontracting piddly work such as this and automating much of it.

    Also, if you think you can get an autoworkers job with just a
    high school education, think again.

    	Productivity and level of unionization are inversely proportional.

    re .2
    
    Jack I didn't think you used bigotted terms towards groups of people,
    only individuals?  Or is this a change to go with the book you did or
    didn't order?
    
    meg

    
    
    whats wrong with making $28.00 an hour for that job.
    I worked for G.E & still do (outsource) and the factory workers
    make great money for their jobs!
    
    
    
    BR

    
    Gosh,  am I surprised!!! I think I'm gonna have a heart
    attack I'm so surprised...
    
    -b

    It's changing, at least here in Canada despite what the sauceman says.

	Speaking of unions.... one got a little upset over K-Mart not using
them to build their new store..... smashed police car, cops hit, a real civil
place it was....

    
    
    Interesting talk on Unions.  I agree, as they exist now, they are
    pretty much useless.  As they existed when they first came into being,
    they were very valuable and necessary.  We (the American worker) owe
    the old unions a good deal of thanks.
    
    
    Mike

    
    I worked in a union shop once.  I hated it.  It's not for me at all.
    As usual with power issues, attempts to even out the scales result in
    a wavering imbalance.
    
    I've got nothing against people earning a living, decent wage for 
    unskilled labour.  I *do* have a problem with excessive wages for
    unskilled labour, particularly in the public sector, where I have 
    little or no choice in the matter.  At least with automotive unions,
    I can choose not to buy a car if I think it's artificially overpriced.
    

    
      I looked it up last night, and they are now down to under 15% of
     the workforce - the trend continues.
    
      The recent AFL/CIO elections, resulting in new leadership, has
     led to union movement self-criticism, perhaps healthy.  US law
     is not particularly pro-union, but Canada is moreso, and there's
     been a similar erosion there.
    
      If the new leadership, which has vowed to increase membership,
     REALLY wants to do so, then they have to change their act.  It
     remains to be seen if they can.  There was a VERY bad story the
     other day of a union leader of a local, convicted of shooting his
     wife, being awarded a Lincoln Continental by vote of the membership,
     as he went off for a couple of years in jail, "for all he had done
     for us".  Out of union dues, no less.  Anybody else see this ?
    
      bb

    
    Ronald Reagen pretty much helped kill unions and their power, with
    the ATC strike. They have never been the same, since.

     Unions helped carve out a structure that supported the blue collar
    work force, healthcare for example was brought in with the help of
    unions. Yes, there is always a positive and negitive this is true with
    unions but again if it were not for them what would our work forces
    have in terms of benifits. Its to bad that certain union leaders became
    greedy and took advantage of a good thing and lost the faith of the
    work force. I still feel as though unions can comeback to being a strong
    leader with the workforce. With new leadership now aboard its time
    to revitalize the term "UNION".
    
    
     Jack- do a little homework, not all unions are bad!! 

================================================================================
Note 1958.0             Union protest/brawl in Braintree                 1 reply
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  I heard on the news that there was a major disturbance in Braintree late
yesterday afternoon. Some union construction workers were protesting at a 
store construction site where the work was being done by non-union workers.
Among other things, they blocked an off-ramp from route 3 which caused a 1-mile
traffic backup. And they damaged two police cars.
  This sort of thing scares me. There was a similar, but more peaceful, protest
at a construction site in Raymond, NH two weeks ago. My primary concern is
that there is usually no advance notice of these protests, and they can happen
anywhere. There must be hundreds of construction sites in MA and NH where non-
union workers are employed. I sure would not want to get hung up in one of 
these "man-made" traffic jams.
  Traffic jams, of course, go with the territory in Greater Boston. But a 
traffic jam due to people deliberately blocking traffic is much harder to take.

    
    
          Interesting how unions continue to thrive in Europe. In
          Germany, unions can literally "stop" the country.
    
    
          Ed

    >            -< ...and they manufacture some fine vehicles. >-
    
     Which would be interesting if we could afford them.

       
       Indeed.  Many western European countries (Germany, France,
       Holland, Belgium, France, Italy, Scandinavia) have a higher
       standard of living than the US, much higher levels of union
       membership, and their governments tend to be way left of US
       governments.

    Italy has a higher standard of living than the U.S. ? Really?

ZZ    Jack I didn't think you used bigotted terms towards groups of people,
ZZ    only individuals?  Or is this a change to go with the book you did
ZZ    or didn't order?
    
    Bigotted...againt leaches?  I fail to see how it is bigotry to attack
    somebody for their ideas.  Going by your logic, congress is a bigotted
    organization, they're just nice about it!
    
    Some union workers were blocking traffic down on the southern part of
    Massachusetts.  Caused heavy delays.  I would have had no remorse for
    the fools had somebody ran them down.  
    
    Regarding your other comment, I'm ignoring it.  Considering some of the 
    severe liars in government you gleefully support it would seem your 
    lack of consistency is just as much in question as my credibility. 
    Right Meg?!
    
    -Jack

    Jack 
    
    Oh, I thought you were talking about people, you know born breathing
    humans, now I see you are talking about a semi-aquatic worm-like
    thingie.  
    
    Gee what d leaches have to do with people.
    
    As for not caring if they had been run down, that shocks me, I
    thought you were "pro-life."  Oh yes, I forgot, only when you are
    visualizing rosy cheeked infants, and not so rosy fetuses.  Once they
    grow into adults, your attitude seems to not be so caring.
    
    meg

    
    .0, Debbie:
    
    If you have access to the WorldWide Web, try:
    
    http://www.igc.apc.org/labornet/unions.html
    

.18>    work force. I still feel as though unions can comeback to being a strong
.18>    leader with the workforce. With new leadership now aboard its time
.18>    to revitalize the term "UNION".

For what purpose?

That's a serious question.

.0>      any idea where I could find info on Labor unions.  

Go to the Meadowlands in northern Jersey and ask for "Jimmy".

>     Which would be interesting if we could afford them.

I just bought a new one, even though I couldn't afford it.

/john

    Meg:
    
    Surprise...I'm pro capitol punishment too!!!

       > capitol punishment 
       
       With the Newt & Bob show, we've got plenty of that.

    Uhhh....capital.  sorry

    Meg:
    
    I was rushing out when responding.  When it comes to abortion, you set
    yourself up as the judge, jury and executioner.  Comparing pro life
    with running down a thug blocking traffic isn't the same by any means.
    
    Funny, you call an unborn child a parasite and I call a union a
    consortium of leaches.  My parasites have no say in the matter, your 
    leaches were killed out of their own disregard and wrecklessness.
    
    -Jack

    Jack,
    
    According to my anatomy book a fetus is considered a parasite.  
    
    Now tell me in the same anatomy book where I can find a listing that
    born, breathing humans are parasitical.
    
    Jack,
    
    You are not pro-life, merely anti-choice face it.  At least Covert
    stays true to the pro-life belief on all fronts.
    
    

  ZZZ      You are not pro-life, merely anti-choice face it. 
    
    How does one become anti choice?  I'm a libertarian actually because I
    find government intervention reprehensible, but I also believe in the
    freedom for ALL ALL ALL ALL.  This means you, me, fetus, whatever.
    
    -Jack

Wrong topic, guys...

Chris.

    <-----   whaddaya chicken
    

      ** thump alert **
    
      Jack,
    
        Your feelings about those people that blocked traffic (not
        caring if they get run down) are diametrically opposed to
        Christ's feelings toward the same people.
    
        Perhaps give 1 Corin 13 a read, or maybe just consider, "Father
        forgive them for they know not what they do."
    
        To profess something and then, in Spirit, to cut 180 degrees
        contrary to that same thing is hypocrisy of the highest form.
         
    						Tony

    Alright alright...this forum brings out the worst in me.  
    
    I don't advocate these guys getting run down Tony.  I was saying that
    if they did get run down, I would place the blame on them for their own
    stupidity.  In other words, don't jump off this building or play
    politics in the middle of the highway because the angels WILL NOT take
    charge of you lest you dash your foot against a stone.
    
    -Jack

    Politics and grace don't mix.

Lest I be accused as a pathological liar....
    
Me:
    
Z    Some union workers were blocking traffic down on the southern part
Z    of Massachusetts.  Caused heavy delays.  I would have had no remorse
Z    for the fools had somebody ran them down.  
    
    Right.  I don't want anybody hurt; but their getting injured would be a
    testimony to their own stupidity.
    
    -Jack

    
    
    
    		It's a big wheel. 
    
    		The cycle is corporate profits vs pay and benefits. 
    
    		Unions will return if the former gets too high and the
    		latter gets too low.
    
    		I see them returning soon. 
    
    

    May they be smitten with boils and malignent sores.
    
    
    
    
    And may they never recover!!!!

    
    
    
    .44
    
    >>    And may they never recover!!!!
    
    Since you have already admitted their usefullness in the past so
    I don't know how you can say this.
    
    Maybe your wishing that the conditions that make Unions usefull
    never return.
    
    Thats what I hope for.
    
    

    re. 22
    
    They also have "jobless" growth and "institutionalized" unemployment.
    Germany's standard of living is so high that companies like BMW and
    Mercedes (Daimler Benz) are shutting down plants in Germany and opening
    new ones in South Carolina and Alabama.  WSJ just had a big article on
    the out-migration of German companies to lower-cost countries.
    
    If this keeps up (which it will), then Germany's cookie will crumble. 
    Most of this is due to militant unions and sheepish
    management/government types who were to eager to pass the cost along to
    the consumer.  That will no longer work and the chickens are coming
    home to roost.

    Anything that is good always has the potential to become corrupt.
    
    

    
    	Yup, I saw "Real Genius" too.
    

    Except for the church, it's without spot or wrinkle.