Conference back40::soapbox

    Jaysus,
    Who gave you a modem?

    My father was typical of his generation and race -- he was an all purpose 
    bigot, he was biased against all non-English people; to be more precise 
    non-Cornish people.   He could out Bunker Archie Bunker himself.
    
    We never took him seriously though, and I cannot remember a time when
    I thought him right on that issue.  I hate to think what he would have
    become if he had ever lived to America.

    
    It's not only the presence of institutionalized racism in the UK, it's
    the complete disinclination to even acknowledge it as a problem.
    That's one of the reason why I don't view the OJ case as a "problem" for
    the US. Rather it's an indication of a society that is prepared to face
    an issue.   The case pushes the race issues into the public eye.  People
    discuss the issues with a passion and there's the distinct possibility
    that changes might result.  From the perspective of a Brit, that's
    refreshing.  Most Brits are not even clued in to the concept of racism
    because they are largely isolated from it and conditioned into thinking
    it is not a problem.   I still shudder when I think of some of the
    reporting that came out of the Broadwater riots, and some of the
    policing that went into them.
    
    
    
    
    

    
    Martin,
    
    Ya limey git gurlie poof.  Whaddya know about racism ?
    
    ;^)

    
    I was in Dublin, driving, and did a dumb thing. I cut
    someone off; it really was an accident (I didn't see
    him)... anyway, I pulled up to the next signal and the
    car I cut off pulled up next to me and the guy in the
    car rolled down his window and yelled at me "you
    effin' limey!!!" I rolled down my window, and said,
    "Look, I'm really sorry I cut you off; I'm actually
    an American of Irish descent." He nodded and thought
    for a second and yelled "Well then, you effin'
    Protestant!" Then he sped off...
    
    -b

    
    	I like it.  8^)
    
    	Is that Emo Phillips joke still in here, about the 2 guys who're
    	comparing/discussing religion?  One of the funniest things I've
    	ever read.
    

    
    being a myopic, self-centered american i can't say i've given the
    subject much thought.  i do remember a jamaican friend who lived
    in england for ten years.  for what it's worth, he said that the
    english are the most tolerant people in the world.  i seldom hear
    positive superlatives about any nation, so his remarks have always
    stuck in my mind.
     

    re .3 
    
    Could you elaborate on the 'Broadwater riots'.  Don't recall that in
    the press up here.
    
    Tks

    An experience I had in the US (Atlanta).
    
    I was riding along with friends on the highway one day. They happen to
    all be of African American descent. Two girls and a bloke in the back,
    the driver and me in the passenger seat. I must say I was getting some
    very strange looks from these white people that were driving past.
    
    At one point we thought it might be a good idea if i started screaming
    just to see what happened.... but then crying wolf isn't funny. The
    power rangers gave me that lesson on Monday :*)
    
    The facial expressions were like "What's the white guy doing in a car 
    full of black dudes" or something to that effect.

    re: .9
    
    >I was riding along with friends on the highway one day. They happen to
    >all be of African American descent. Two girls and a bloke in the back,
    >the driver and me in the passenger seat. I must say I was getting some
    >very strange looks from these white people that were driving past.
    
    Well what did you expect???  You are supposed to be in the passenger
    seat and the driver in the driver's seat, not both of you in the
    passenger seat.
    
    HTH,
    
    Bob
    

    
    
    Thanks for clearing that up for the lad, Bob.
    :')

    When were you in Atlanta Martin?  (See I've never gotten to kiss
    the Blarney Stone, I thought I might touch my fingers where you
    stood) :-}
    
    FWIW, I've lived all over the country, racially mixed couple 
    unfortunately can cause stares everywhere.  One of my co-workers
    is 1/2 of a racially mixed couple; we've discussed the situation
    and I asked him if there was any one place he and his wife had
    gone through a lot of difficulties (more than he might expect
    in the deep south).  He mentioned another state without
    hesitation and indicated that if that state was going to pass
    laws against gays he was getting his wife and son the heck outta
    Dodge.
    
    I'm not saying for a minute that all folks in that state are racist,
    it just surprised me.  He was born and raised in metro Atlanta, he's
    traveled the world while in the military.  He said he was pleasantly
    surprised to find that he could bring his wife and son "home" and
    enjoy life as it should be.
    
    
    
    

>to be more precise non-Cornish people.

sounds like some of those obscure villages you can occasionally stumble
across in the likes of Suffolk, where anyone who hasn't been inbred with
the locals for at least 158 generations is treat like an alien.

"Oooii, Jaaathrow"  "Aye, fuurtherrr?"  "You'm gerrum tooownies oorf moi
laaaaaaaannnd!!!"

Chris.

    re .12 - I have been visiting Atlanta once a year (execpt this year)
    since 1990. I'll be back again in the spring, you're most welcome to 
    follow me around performing your strange kissing ceremony !!! :*)
    
    Oh and ya can lick my boots clean while yer doon there !!! 

    The bloke in the jury who gave the black power salute when O.J. was
    aquitted basically sums up race relations in the U.S.
    
    
    CHARLEY

    
    You're quite the expert on America, aren't you, Charley?  Tell me
    something, ever been here?
    
    Moron.
    
    
    
    Rob
    

    Yes.

    Your clueless header sums up your attitude.
    
    
    Cretin.
    
    
    CHARLEY
    

    
    Your ignorant comments demonstrate the fact that you simply do not
    know what you are talking about.
    
    I apologize for my insult, but the dynamics of race relations here
    in the States are much too complex to be summed up by one embittered
    black man giving a black power salute to another man who, up until
    the last year, spent his whole life trying to disassociate his public
    image and his race.
    
    Since you say that you have been to this country, Charley, you should
    be able to appreciate this fact, or at least have the common decency
    to remain silent instead of deliberately antagonizing people over
    a very sensitive and emotion-laden subject.
    
    Your mileage may, of course, vary (more's the pity)...
    
    
    
    Rob
    

    I do appreciate the complexity of race relations in the U.S.
    
    The fact that in the O.J. trail and in many others in the U.S. and over
    here as well, the defence lawyers have not tried to prove that the
    defendant is innocent, they've tried to prove that the accusers and
    arresting officers are racist, and any major or minor indescretion is
    pounced upon to the benefit of the defendant.
    
    It seems it is not important whether the defendant is innocent or not,
    just how guilty the accusers are.
    
    I think that both sides of the Atlantic justice has lost it's way
    slightly.
    
    Sorry for not posting a longer note earlier, but I'm in my lunch break
    now.
    
    CHARLEY
    
    Btw. I found that most Americans are VERY friendly and accomodating.

    .13
    
    Actually my father's view on "furriners" were formed in the trenches
    of WW1.  To him, the Belgians were treacherous, the Germans murderous,
    the Italians not to be trusted, and I won't mention what he thought 
    of the Arabs.  However, when my sister went out with the son of the
    minister of education of one of the Arab countries--Saudi Arabia I
    think- dad waited up for them to get back, with a gun on the table
    beside him.
    
    We children thought it was a hoot.
    
    It was strange because his kindness to individual foreigners was 
    boundless.  Like the time he collected gloves for the Italian prisoners 
    of war who were pulling turnips in the cold wind and getting seriously 
    chapped hands.  Some of those prisioners kept in touch with him for 
    years after the end of WW2.  It wasn't the individual that father didn't 
    trust, but the national stereotypes.
    
    It didn't make sense to me then and it still doesn't now. I guess it's
    like Red Green says (The New Rich Green Show, PBS) "It's not smart and 
    it's not correct but it's what makes us what we are."
                                                                        

I've always claimed (or at least thought) that a lot of animosity can be
avoided by treating people as individuals rather than generalising, and
a lot of animosity can be caused by hiding behind a banner, be it black
power, feminism, the NF or whatever; such people seem to be far more likely
to not treat others as individuals.  Just my opinion...

Chris.

    
    Charley,
    
    After I went home yesterday, I kept trying to figure out just what it
    was in your note that had aggravated me so much.  I think part of my
    anger came from the fact that I viewed you as an outsider who could
    afford the luxury of passing judgement on this situation, while we
    here in the United States have to live with the eventual repercussions
    of the trial and its outcome.  No one likes to have their dirty
    laundry hung up for all the neighbors to see, and in the last few years
    we have had numerous examples that illustrate just how dirty that
    laundry can be.  You may feel the same way when you hear Americans
    pontificating about the troubles in Northern Ireland, while they are
    safely ensconced thousands of miles away in Boston or New York.
    
    I am a blond-haired, blue-eyed white man who would probably make an
    excellent poster child for some Aryan Youth movement.  ;-)   I live in a
    predominantly black and Hispanic neighborhood in a mostly white city
    (with a very racist police force) in a very white state.  People in
    my neighborhood sometimes treat me with hostility and suspicion, and
    I can understand why, because they have been treated badly by people
    who look like me in the past and in the present.  There is a lot of
    tension here, thus I am sometimes more sensitive about racial issues
    than is warranted by the situation.
    
    I see now that you did not mean any harm, and I regret my harsh words
    of yesterday.  Thanks for understanding.
    
    
    
    Rob
    

    Kumbaya, my Lord, Kuuumbayaaaa...
    
    We gonna go to GroupHug stage now or what???
    
    :-)
    

    
    Hugs and smooches to Dr. Dan!
    
    
    
    Rob
    

    OK, stand up, now U can kiss my other two cheekz.
    
    :-)
     

    No worries Rob.
    
    Cheers for the reply.
    
    CHARLEY

    A good friend of mine has married (admitedly well tasty) Nigerian girl,
    and I can honestly say that although (shock,horror) he`s white and
    she`s black I haven`t seen so much as an eye raised towards them. And
    quite right too.
    
    Not that this really proves anything I suppose,but it`s good to say
    something positive about such things.