Conference napalm::heavy_metal

	 IMO.....
	 
         lyrics make or break a song.......the mood that the music,
         coupled with the lyrics, puts me in is what makes it a good
         song to me.  If the mood isn't there....if the song doesn't
	 mean something to me...its nothing.

	 Loud music and muffled lyrics do not appeal to me in the
	 least.


	 /kath

    
    re: .0
    
    Very interesting topic.  I guess it is just a matter of personal
    preference.  I for one like bands whose songs mean something; that
    is why I like Rush so much!!  I also enjoy looking at the lyrics
    to songs to try to figure out what exactly each song means.  For
    example, "Watching, waiting" by Extreme.  I really like this song
    and after listening to it a couple times I figured it was about
    the crucifixtion.  I guess it shows a certain kind of "intelligence"
    that a lot of bands don't care about.  I really like that.  It shows
    me that these guys' brain aren't totally fried from dope and that
    they really care about their music.
    
    I also get upset when a song I like doesn't have the lyrics included
    with the album.  Could this mean that the band just doesn't care
    if you get the message of a song?  I know that there are other reasons
    for not putting lyrics with albums, but it really gets me P*ssed
    off.
                
    Anyways, I think that if bands just run their lyrics together and
    turn their guitars up to 10, then they just don't have that much
    to say and they want their fans to know that too.
    
    

    	To me, lyrics are everything.  Empty words are meaningless.
    
    							Carla
    

    
    
    	RE: CARLA
    
    	Couldn't have said it better myself!
    
    	Tigga~~~

    I agree Carla, that's why we apprciate the finer music in life,
    like Mozart and GnR!

    You can really only appreciate Mozart's lyrics if you can speak
    and understand German and Italian...
    
    joe.
    
    (good way to learn a second language I suppose, but I still love
    his quartets the best)

    
    Well, I say....Uh...What was the question again?

    I got one for ya, what goes on when the written lyrics are different
    from what's being sung(sp?)? Do they get printed before the actual
    singing is done, or vice-versa? But back to the subject. Sometimes
    the music can make the statement without any lyrics. Re: Joe Satriani
    Always with me, always with you. Most times though, definetly it's
    the lyrics that make the song memorable. Is that all I gotta say?
    Yeah, that should do it.
        Spacknight
    

    There needs to be a dissonant in every discussion, so I'll be it here. 
    
    To me the music is more important than the lyrics for a lot of what I
    listen to.  Certain bands, you expect to read and listen carefully to
    the lyrics and other it just doesn't matter.
    
    To me lyrics are icing on the cake if they're good, and something I can
    tolerate if they're bad.  Otherwise I'd probably never be able to turn
    a radio on and enjoy anything I heard.  (Not that I find a lot on the
    radio that really appeals to me...)
    
    gh

    
    	But why can't there be a compromise of music/lyrics?
    
    	Why can't they BOTH be good and audible, rather than
    	just the guitars?
    
    	And if the lyrics aren't audible, why have them at all?
    	Just do what Satriani does and write instrumentals!!
    
    							GTI
    

    Hey! If you want lyrics, read the album cover. There are many good thrash 
    songs that you can't hear/underdstand the words until you read them.
    BUT, you don't need to understand the words to appreciate the melody IF
    you like that type of music. I think that the people who say "I don't like
    thrash, you can'r hear the words" just don't like the music. Many of
    the best words for songs I have ever read wrom thrash bands  

    Please excuse the spelling on my previous response, my moden is having
    a flashback....
    
     SLAM
         

    Howdy folks. Very occasional noter here but I gotta say my piece
    on this subject.
    
        Lyrics and instruments go together like groups and groupies.
    Ya gotta have one to compliment the other (in my opinion). I listen
    to Merciful Fate quite often (King Diamond, lead vocals; Kim Ruzz
    on drums), being the drummer that I am (Ruzz kicks as*!!), and I
    have to say that I have learned to appreciate their music alot more
    since I have begun memorizing the words to the songs as well the
    drums in the tunes. It also helps me to play better if I learn all
    the aspects of a song rather than just my one part of the tune.
    Just my opinion.
    
    Other groups to be appreciated: Megadeth, Metallica, Slayer, Shock
    Value (local boys, look for the tape coming soon)
     Marauder (local friends of mine), Crystal Myth
    (guitarist split, don't look for 'em at QVCC) and Metal Church.
    
    
    
           Just my two cents worth!!
    
    
                    Jim

    
    	RE: .13
    
    		How can u like Megadeth if u like a mix of good
    		lyrics and instruments ... when u can't understand
    		what they're saying?  On "Peace Sells ..." (the al-
    		bum), the title track is the only one that's clear
    		enough to understand ... the rest is mumbled garbage.
    
    							GTI
    

    
    
    	I guess lyrics play a big part of music to me, too.  I
    	can't STAND to listen to Megadeth because I can't understand
    	any of the words.  I guess that's one of the main reasons
    	why I don't care for thrash metal.
    
    	At least if I had words to sing along to, people on the road
    	wouldn't think I was looney-tunes for banging my head in
    	the car on the way to work!!  (8
    
    	Tigga~~~

    I'm not sure how I want to say this, but here goes.  There is no
    second fiddle.  A voice is another instrument.  Whether you can
    make out the words or not doesn't always matter.  I love listening
    to Metal Church, but I can barely make out any words.  But without
    that killer voice, it wouldn't be the same.  Different guitars give
    you different sounds, different singers have different sounds.
    Different guitarist have different styles, different singers have
    different styles.  The actual lyrics are just a by-product.  When
    I used to sing, we would listen to songs over and over again and
    sometimes we just couldn't figure out what the lyrics in certain
    parts were.  I would right down what it sounded like phoneticaly,
    and that's what I would sing and nobody would know the difference.
    
    Chris D.

    I think lyrics can make or break a song as well as the music.  Lyrics
    are important to me.
    
    To be blunt, I prefer instrumental music just because of the fact
    that today's artist write atrocious lyrics.
    
    Mike

.17>	today's artist write atrocious lyrics.
    
    	Most do.  I think that 99.99% of lyrics are garbage.  Top 40
    	artists (HM definitely included) are the worst culprits of all.  
    	But there are some amazing lyricists in the underground world.
    
    							Carla
    

.18>
                	
        >Most do.  I think that 99.99% of lyrics are garbage.  Top 40
    	>artists (HM definitely included) are the worst culprits of all.  

    Example:
    
    "Gina works the diner all day.  She cries in the night.  Tommy
    whisper's "Baby it's ok...someday""

    
    Oh puh-leeeze, mega-gag

 _    /|   
 \'o.O'    AacK!!
 =(___)=   
    U      

    Buck

    Check out QR, Metallica or Maidens lyrics sometime if you want 
    something to think about.
    
    I don't like tunes that say "Oh Baby" in it.  JBJ is the worst that
    I can think of off the top of my head...for a metal band anyhow...
    
    jc

    	Aw, Buck, I thought you LOVED JBJ's lyrics!
    
    	The phrase "oh baby" has its place.  Like "oh baby does it hurt" 
    	or "oh baby are you getting tired".
    
    	The best lyricists are psychotic and/or deranged heroin addicts,
    	right Alan?  Jeffrey Lee Pierce, Nick Cave, Iggy Pop ... was Lou
    	Reed into that?  Sometimes Axl's not bad either.
    
    	Since I'm no Metallica fan I haven't willingly listened to their 
    	lyrics, but the Metallica lyrics that Tigg entered in another 
    	conference were pretty cool.
    

    Instrumental music is my personal favorite.  I wish there were more
    progressive instrumentalists out there.
    
    Not necessarily metal but I always thought these groups had decent
    lyrics: Pink Floyd (Roger Waters), early Kansas (Kerry Livgren), Elton 
    John (Bernie Taupin), late Beatles (after they got over the "doo wop" 
    stuff), early Foreigner, early J. Geils Band, Boston.
    
    I especially enjoy lyrics that tell a story.  Al Stewart seemed
    to be good at this but I hated his music and his feminine voice.
    
    Mike

        Having spent a lot of time in Switzerland, I've come to the 
    	conclusion that any (semi-good) English or American band who
    	goes to that country can become instantaneously famous.  The
    	Swiss (perhaps other non-English speaking countries as well) 
    	in general go absolutely insane for anything in English, be
    	it t-shirts, sweats, buttons, and most importantly music.
    
    	I saw a very popular band from Z�rich called Maxine once.  I
    	wasn't thrilled with their music ... they played the same set
    	three times and sounded a lot like the Outfield and Bon Posi
    	combined.  (They sang in English.)  After the show I told the
	lead singer he did well with English.  Turns out he doesn't
    	speak a lick of English except for what he's memorized.  One
    	of the other band members writes the lyrics for him.
    
    	I saw the Pixies in Z�rich-Wollishofen a couple months ago.
    	No one knew who they were, but the place was packed because
    	it was an American band with interesting concepts.
    
    	In talking with a lot of friends over there, what's important
    	is that the words are in English.  It doesn't matter if they
    	(the audience) understands it or not, that's all the Swiss
    	want to hear.  English.
    
    	For those of you in good bands, I really think you'd have no
    	trouble finding instantaneous fame over there.  And they pay
    	a lot too.  (Switzerland is very very rich.)
    

    re: the Pixies
    
    I saw the Pixies written up in a local music magazine, their names
    read like this:
    
    sew-n-sew  (loud guitar)
    sew-n-sew  (loud drums)
    sew-n-sew  (loud bass, loud vocals)
    sew-n-sew  (louder lead guitar)
    ^^^^^^^^^
    I forgot the peoples names, but I like the instruments!
    
    
                          -= retch =-          
    

Well, this is sort of a non-answer to the question posed in .0, but IMO, 
it depends upon each song individually. 

There are instrumentals that say a lot more to me than any words can ("Cause 
We Ended As Lovers" pops first into my mind). 

Then there are songs with bad lyrics, but I like the music (most of the 
pop/metal songs I live fall into this category - Journey or AC/DC for examples).
(Yes is also a good example - just what the hell is Jon Anderson singing 
about?)  8^)

And there is the third category, which is that they have great lyrics, but weak 
music (good example might be Tom Waits).

And then, the killer - great lyrics *and* great music! This happens rare 
enough, especially in HM. But a good example would be Queensryche O:MC. Or for 
non-metal, bands like Springsteen or The Clash. 

I guess what I'm basically saying is that its impossible for me to just lay 
down a blanket rule on what takes precedent, music or lyrics. Either one can 
make a song good for me. Its when they click together that something great 
happens!

cat

P.S. Yes, Carla, its heroin addicts that tend to write the best lyrics! 8^)
     And don't forget Clapton and Jagger/Richards in that list!