Conference napalm::heavy_metal

    I like to hear a flanger on drums, especially cymbals.  Digital
    reverb on vocals and snare.  Aural exciter on vocals and guitars.
    Digital delay/reverb on guitars and snare.  Whether it's live or
    studio, effects make your sound.  And I feel less will give you
    more - subtle effects rather than delay for 10 seconds after the
    song is over.  It makes you listen closer and keeps the music from
    sounding cluttered.
    
    
    				Mr Scary II

    
    There are so many effects on recordings today, you wouldn't believe
    it!  What may sound just like a dry guitar might have compression,
    massive eq, aural exciter, and doubling on it.  I like flange on
    bass (not severe, just so that it notch's the freq and makes the
    bass stand out a bit more in the mix), exciter on guitar n vox,
    delay on whatever is rhythmic at the moment (keys, guitar), etc
    
    
     

An exciter? Can someone please fill me in? 
(Yes, I'm showing my ignorance again - oh well!)

I like a little bit of chorus on the guitar, along with some reverb and 
probably some digital delay (especially on a solo). And a little EQ
can go a long ways. On the drums, I agree that flanging is nice if used 
properly. I don't really know enough about bass or keys to have an 
intelligent opinion, so I'll leave it at that.

cat

    
    Aural Exciter's are weird!
    
    if you plugged your guitar into one all by yourself, you'd probably
    say it didn't do anything (read - subtle effect).  Its more noticeable
    when/if you're playing with a full band.
    
    Basically, what it does is compress the signal and delay the high
    end freq a bit, so they come out later.  There's usually controls
    for the bass, mid and highs.  They can really clean up a sound,
    or a mix (great for processing tapes thru!!), or add snap to a dull
    sounding instr., or help a guitar or vocal cut thru a loud or thick
    sounding band.
    
    Joe Satriani uses one on ALL his guitar tracks.  You can't really
    hear it, but when he's up high on the neck, listen for this `snap'
    and bite to his sound as he plays harder...that's the exciter kicking
    in.
    
    Buck_who_has_an_exciter_in_his_geetar_rack_now_cuz_Joe_S._uses_one_and_
     I_worship_his_sound_etc_etc

    I know Aphex makes them and I've seen Aural Exciter type effects in the
    Rocktron rack distortion effect(the XDC I think it's called, two
    channels a clean and a distortion with seperate exciters).  Who else is
    making them?  What are the prices currently? 
      
    I've read some articles about these, the exact things they do, they
    won't give out.  I believe they also produce slight
    harmoninization[sic] in the upper freq ranges. 
                                                
    RE: Buck - Well, have you copped Satrianis tone yet?  I heard your
    Surfin with the Alien from SpringJam tapes and thought it sounded real
    good!  I would have hated to be in the band that had to follow that!
    
    gh

    
    Re: Housester,
    
    BBE also makes an exciter.  Mine, I have a Rocktron RX20, which
    is a combination exciter/Hush unit....real neat for processing
    the sh%$ going out, cha know?
    
    Re Tone.  The tone I had on springjam tape was just *ok*.  Its much
    closer to the Satch now.  I just used a GeeK amp with a marshall
    cab for the springjam show and it sounded ok, but now I'm using
    a combination tube preamp with compression, and with the effects
    all processed thru the exciter and hush, its a wild tone.  Blows
    the GeeK away forever.
    
    Buckster

    That sounds like a nice unit, good combination of effects!  What's it
    list for?  I take it it's last in the chain? 
    
    What kind of pre/power amp setup are you using now, Buck?  Geez, you go
    through equipment like most people go through clothes!  Last I heard,
    Marshalls were out & GKs rooled.  Now the GKs have hit the round
    file...                                      
    
    gh 

    
    Yeah, Rocktron makes some hip stuff.  
    
    They have a compressor/limitor/hush, a distortion/exciter, stuff
    like that.  
    
    The exciter/hush thing I got for in the $200 dollar range...not
    sure what it lists for, probably high $300's.  They are coming out
    with new Hush units (just for noise reduction) called Hush II-BX
    and Hush II-CX (mono n stereo respectively).  They are supposed
    to be the final word in noise reduction. 
    
    I'm using a Peavey power amp (70WTs a side) and an ADA MP-1 preamp.
    I had a GK preamp, but I didn't like it.  The MP-1 is cool, you
    can get a fender sound, a rockman, a GK, an old marshall, a new
    marshall, a boogie, a roland jazz chorus amp out of it.  Its like
    having 29 different amps onstage with you.  My setup is now in stereo,
    for maximum kill (Sorry, mono for Chets..too damn small!).  I still
    have my `71 marshall head, but I'll probably sell it...kinda useless
    ya know?
    
    Buck

With all this talk, I just *had* to add this...
    
    If anyone is looking for a Rocktron XDC (Deluxe--distortion w/ exciter
    unit) I have one we're trying to sell.  Brand new, barely used,
    my temperamental boyfriend goes through equipment like crazy, still
    boxed...
    
    Let me know if you're interested.
            
    Stacie
    

                In  the    studio,  great!    Try  using  reverse
                compression for a great/different sound.
                
                

    
    
    
        AS LONG AS ITS GOT THE SOUND,BLOW IT THROUGH MY DRUMS !!!
    
     
              the_voice_of_a_wild_man_who_seeks_Revenge_on_Ear_DRUMS,
                             -with_my_DRUMS-
                                 Jim...Tama

        What sound effects do U like to hear in songs?  I mean added
        'stuff' like cowbells, horns, etc.
    
        Me?  I like:	the cowbells that M�tley Cr�e uses
    			the horns that Spike Jones uses (not H_M)
    
        And one of my favorites:  Dennis DeYoung on keyboards for
        Styx uses a certain key and/or 'effects switch' to make a sound
    	that he uses basically as a 'filler' in the finales of some
        of the live tracks ... prevalent in "Miss America" on "Caught
        in the Act".  Sounds something like "wwwwAAAAAAAAAAAA" ...
    	this is like 'instant orgasm' for me (Well, not quite - but
        U know what I mean).
    
                                                       GTI

    
    
    
    me I love The Flange on the Guitar as well as a Phaser, and Delay
    
    on the Vocals,Also "Effects" can fall under the catagorie of
    distortion,
    OHHHHHH! I messed up ..
    > I mean added 'stuff' like cowbells, horns,etc...."ok"
    
    the above is nice to hear (Though not to fawned of horns) I like
    
    Chimes,Woodblocks,Timpani's(Kettle Drums) Tamborine,Flute (TULL)
    
                                                  JIM

    I love the way Vai makes his guitar "talk"...
    
    Power chords
    
    I like the Voice Box effect that Joe Walsh and Peter Frampton made 
    famous.
    
    Augmented power chords
    
    I love making ghost sounds on my guitar (thanks to Scary)...
    
    I love dive bombs, harmonics, pinched notes, pulls, hammers, taps,
    augmented power chords, major scales, pentatonics, and augmented power 
    chords.
    
    Most of all, I love playing with no effects at all ! 

    I love the sound of a mic'd GK going thru the PA, so the sound tech
    can add FX to a nice clean signal...
    
    Ya know ?
    
    jc

    The end of  "The Zoo"

    Explosions, Cannons, gunfire, whips, heavy machinery, fast cars,and
    destruction (as taking an axe to a T.V. on The Wall)! 
    
    Gongs, Bells, Thunder, Screams, Howling, and breaking glass is also
    great stuff.
    
    The Sentinel
    

    
    	I like what .4 said.  Extra special effect, but most of all,
    I like....
    
    			    HARMONIC DISTORTION !
    
    and echo boxes, phase, flange, chorus, etc...
    
    METALord"_thanking_the_good_Lord_for_Friday's_!!! :^)

Some good effects:

church bell   - "Hell's Bells" - AC/DC
cannon fire   - "For Those About To Rock" - AC/DC
flanger       - drums on "Kashmir" - LZ
flange/chorus - "Bridge of Sighs" - Robin Trower
echo          - "Brighton Rock" live - Brian May (amazing use of echo!)
theramin      - "Whole Lotta Love" live - LZ
rhino calls   - "The Lone Rhino" - Adrian Belew
cowbell       - "American Band" - Grand Funk

that's enough for now.....

cat

    Reminded me of one...
    
    Violin bows on guitar strings are cool...
    
    Voluime pedals are the nads too...
    
    jc

    
    And don't forget just about everything that Pink Floyd has done....
    
    
    						Dr. Pizza Guy    <)
    

    
    How about the Horns on Aerosmith's "Dude Looks like a lady" ????

    The magical sounds Hendrix could do WITHOUT pedals!

                                                 
    
    Hendrix without a fuzz box or a wah wah is like a car without 
    petrol.
                                                 
    About as much use as a chocolate fire guard !!

    Jimi also made extensive use of backward recording on the guitar parts
    on his records.  (Especially on the Electric Ladyland album)
    
    gh

    I watched "Monterey Pop" last night and both Jimi and Townshend
    destroyed their instruments on stage at full volume.  It made for
    some very interesting sounds.
    
    	Jimi's sacrifice of his guitar was pretty cool with the lighter
    fluid and all (imagine how much those strats would be worth today).

    Yeah, a lot more than before they got flamed !
    
    ;^)
    
   

    Actually, I was readin' someplace that one of the Hard Rock Cafes
    turned down buying [supposedly] the guitar that Hendrix burned and
    smashed at Monterey.  The asking price...a cool $5K.
    
    	joe.

ANT::SLABOUNTY "Skydive naked from an aeroplane"     15 lines  13-SEP-1989 06:58
    
    	Is the "Vox box" back?
    
    	Some of u might remember me mentioning Mick Mars' solo in
    	"Kickstart My Heart" (except Alan - I know he hits "next
    	unseen" as soon as he sees my name in the NOTES header),
    	and then I heard it used in the second song on the new
    	Faster Pussycat album (forgot the song!!).
    
    	Is this a revived trend, or coincidence?  I mean, hearing
    	that same type of solo twice (on 2 consecutive CD purch-
    	ases) does seem kinda strange.
    
    							GTI

================================================================================
CSC32::G_HOUSE "Ghastly ghoulish apparitions"         8 lines  13-SEP-1989 17:10
          -< Make it talk like Steve Vai does, don't use some gadjet >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Also used by Richie Sambora in the intro to Bon Jovis "Livin on a
    Prayer"...
    
    I personally think that, like many effects, it's got a very limited
    application and has a big chance of sounding bad (probably from much
    abuse in the past).
    
    gh

    
    Scorpions use it WELL on The Zoo and not NOT so well on 
    Meida Overkill.

    
    	Quiet Riot uses a great stereo chorus effect on "In a Rush",
    	off their latest self-titled album (Paul Shortino on vocals).
    
    	Ya know - left-right drifting of sound that makes u think
    	you're on a bad trip.
    
    							GTI
    

    I know its not Heavy Metal, but check out some of the early of Brian
    Eno. In particular :-
    
         Kings Lead Hat    from   Before and After Science
         Blank Frank       from   Here Come the Warm Jets
         
    Most of the tracks from these two albums contain some really good
    use of synthesizer effects.
    
    Another group that has made good use of synthesizers is Hawkwind
    on an album called Chronicle Of The Black Sword which is a collection
    of tracks based on the books involving the character Elric created
    by Michael Moorcock.
    
    Another album of theirs which also has a lot of synth effects is
    Choose Your Masques which tends towards Heavy Metal.
    
    Baz.

    >        Kings Lead Hat    from   Before and After Science
    
    Killer song!   :-)
                      

    
    	Nothing like listening to electronically effected voices...
    
    BK
    

    
    	RE: BK
    
    	Actually, I like the stereo flanger effect.
    
    							GTI
    

In small doses Flanging is cool...
                  
Now, Stereo delays are cool...  ;^)
                                 

    
    	Re Coop
    
    
    		Yar...in small does...but an entire song...neigh!!
    
    	And SD are cool....     cool
    			cool
    				cool
    			cool
    				cool
    
    
    BK
    	bk
    bk
    	bk
    

    
    	Somewhere, Scary (I think) had commented on the similarities
    	of the intros to:
    
    	"Bad Motor Scooter" - Montrose
    	"Kickstart ..." - Motley Crue
    
    	Similar - yes.  But Ronnie Montrose makes Mick Mars look
    	like child's play.
    
    							GTI
    

    True Ronnie toasts Mick, but in a way, I'm glad there are guitar
    players like Mick and CC DeVille ... see, this way, I can play along
    with records without a lot of trouble, burning "their" chops once
    in a while .....		8^)
    
    
    				Scary

    GTI:
    
    or any Brits:
    
    Having listened to Kickstart... I could help but feeling that the
    Riff at the start reminded me of SWEETS Ballroom Blitz!  I think
    that I had better get me an analyst...
    
    But the start of Wild Side... reminds me of BAD MOTOR SCOOTER!@
    
    
    Bonzo (he who is confused!)

    re: Scary
    
    I think there's room in this world for the guitar players that are less
    accomplished.  I don't have a problem listening to someone that doesn't
    play at blazing speed if they play something tasty.  I actually like
    some of CCs solos...  In some cases, I'd rather hear that then someone
    that's rippin along real fast, but not saying anything with his lick,
    y'know?
    
    Besides, even CC probably toasts me...
    
    Greg
        

    
    Agreed.  People tell me I play like Mick Mars.
    
    Think about it !
    
    1. I'm slow as the day after cheese sauce and brocolli
    2. Ugly as he!!
    3. I love pentatonic minor scales (read: thats my only scale of
       choice!)
    4. I love power chords
    5. "    " high volume
    6. "    " being rude on stage
    
      !!! AND MOST IMPORTANTLY !!!
    
    7. I don't give a sh*t what anyone thinks !!
                                               
    
    Just like MicK !
                 

    Yeah, you also missed one:
    
    You love grabbing for the wang bar after hitting that harmonic.

    Before ... after ... and during !  8^)
    
    But that was my point guys, I can't listen to hours upon hours of
    blazin' riffs 'cuz after a few toonz the runs all sound the same.
    BUT, something along the lines of Tesla, Badlands, Mr. Big to name
    a few don't get on my nerves like that.  They mix it up and it's
    a lot easier to listen to, for me anyway.  One thing I have learned
    over the years *trying* to play guitar is that a lot of times (not
    just sometimes ...) less IS more.
    
    
    				Scary
    
    (who probably wouldn't say that if he could play the *more* stuff)
    

    RE: .44
    
    Absolutely !  The wang-bar *is* my *only* trick !
                                   
    jc (Mick)

    RE: .6
    
    Hey Buck,
            How does your RX20 soot ya??? I've been waiting for mine
    for a while now and it's finally supposed to be in this week(maybe
    today (^8).) Anything I should be warned about with it??? Have you
    had any complaints with yours??? Could you give me the run down???
    Thanx in advance.
    
                					R.C.
                           
    

    -1
    
    i sold it off a while back.  I grew to hate it!  It began to make me
    sound like an AM radio station (IMHO).  I donno, they revampped their
    line anyhoot...check yours out, maybe you'll like it?

    
    RE: -1
    
        Thanx for the info. I'll mess around with it a lot before I
    buy it. What type of Noize Gate/Exiciter do you use now??? Any at
    all???
     
          							R.C.
    

    Hush ROOOLZ !
    
    I think Buck is still using the Hush IICX that he really wants to
    sell to me... (Your getting sleeeeepy....Sell Coop the Hush for
    cheap...Your drifting backwards...$100 is a good deal for a pal
    like Coop....Sleeeeeeepy...)
       
    Ahem.
    ;^)

    Buck says, "Forget it Cooper, he deleted Heavy_Metal from his
    notebook." "The HUSH unit is not for sale." 

    Pffft....
    

    I enjoy home-recording with 4track MTRs and some effecters, and always 
    have a complain about sound quality comes from dubbing between 2 
    tracks. I knew exiter/enhancer makes it better, then bought a BBE 2002.
    But it's really terrible sound. Noise, noise noise and effect is too 
    bright, and have a serious problem for recording. Threshold level and 
    decay time is fixed and user never control it, so it can't use for sound
    which include a wide range volume level. Definitely hear the cut off.
     
    About above problems, I mean it can't use for severe recording. if you 
    use only for listening, it's not so bad, especially listen to old record
    like a 60's Rolling Stones. 
    
    So I've been looking for a good exiter. I've thought that I would buy a 
    RX20 next pay. But Buck said that he grew to hate it. Buck? Let me know
    more details about RX20.
    
    
    Kaz.

    re: -1
    
    The RX20 is *ok*.  Like I said, They (Rocktron) did their WHOLE line of
    products over, so the new version may be pretty good.  I thought mine,
    the old version, was lame in the hush dept. and a tad bogus in the
    exciter part...basically, a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none box!
    Its good in that it combines noise reduction AND an Exciter together.
    I have heard the Aphex Type C unit and the BBE 442....they are both
    good for what they do...I donno...I'd play with them all before you
    make a decision.  If your ears like it, go for it.

    
        I was playing through one of my friends,(a few months old so
    I guess that it is a "new" one) and I like it alot. The one I order
    should be in this week, but of course I heard that last week. (^8)
    
                                                                R.C.

While we're talking about effects and stuff....

Anybody know what kind of effects are used to create that "breathy" 
vocal sound. For an example, the backup vocals on Def Leppard's "Love Bites" 
(and most of the other Lep songs also). It has a real airy quality about it, 
and I wanna try and reproduce using low-tech stuff. Any hints???

thanx,
alan

    Thank you for the info about RX20 8-). I understand it's worth to buy.
    I gatta go to the shop and check it this w/e.
    
    Kaz.

    -2
    
    I believe that vocal quality is the result of heavy compression and 
    eq.  I mean, there's lots of top end in there!  Not to mention the
    obvious multi-tracking...Mutt lange does like 20 tracks of background 
    vocals...flys em down to stereo, and samples em!

> I believe that vocal quality is the result of heavy compression and eq.  

Thanks, I might try that - *lots* of compression, and lotsa highs......
Oh, and I suppose it would help if I could get someone with talent to sing 
it.... 8^)

If I only owned a Fairlight.....I could just sample DL's! Anybody got $30,000
they wanna donate to a worthy cause????   8^)

alan

    Oh...
    
    Clarification here...When I say lots of comression, I don't mean in
    ratio nec.  I mean, anything over 10:1 is limiting, really, but the
    heavy compression I'm talking about is the one that 'pumps' and
    'breaths' when an input signal is present/not-present.  The vocals are
    ver siblant sounding, whoch means 8k and above...all the upper
    harmonics of the voice.
    
    $30,000 for a Fairlight?  That's cheap!

    re:58-60
    Uh, yeah right.
    <next unseen>
    

    I think effcts for a vocal is the most difficult. I also always use 
    compresser and EQ, it's basic effcts for vocal. And to make more 
    breathy, I use pitch shifter or chorus. Shifting range is about -10 
    cent to 10 cent, and add this shifted pitch to original voice. Try it 
    and let me know your impression 8-).
    
    Kaz.

    re: Alan
    
>If I only owned a Fairlight.....I could just sample DL's! Anybody got $30,000
>they wanna donate to a worthy cause????   8^)
    
    You wouldn't need all that.  Get a good sampler like an Ensonic EPS,
    only costs about $1800 (but I heard they were going down even more). 
    Or even a Mirage which you can pick up used for about $400-$500.
    
    Greg

>    You wouldn't need all that.  Get a good sampler like an Ensonic EPS,
>    only costs about $1800 (but I heard they were going down even more). 
>    Or even a Mirage which you can pick up used for about $400-$500.

Oh fine, Greg - just spend more of my money, why dontcha!!!  8^)

I'm gonna have to try some of these tricks this weekend, and see what the 
result is....thanx for the suggestions!

alan

>Oh fine, Greg - just spend more of my money, why dontcha!!!  8^)
    
    You're feeling very tired...very sleepy...you can hardly hold your eyes
    open...your soooooooo tired...your eyes are closing...you want to buy
    Greg's Hiwatt combo...you're very tired...verrrrrry sleepy...

    Hi y'all 8-).
    
    Well talking about special effects, let us know your effectors?
    
    Here's mine :
    
    Rack Mountable....
    
    	Multi Effector		YAMAHA		SPX90II(st out)
    				YAMAHA		SPX50D(st out)
    
    	GE			YAMAHA		GQ1031(31points 1ch)
    	
    	Comp/limit.		YAMAHA		GC2020B(2ch)
    
    	Distortion		Rocktron	G.A.P 1(with HUSH)
    
    	Delay			KORG		SDD3300(3 delay units)
    
    	Enhancer		BBE		2002R
    
    	And Patchi Bay and Power Distoributer are mounted on my rack.

    Sometimes use compact effectors, Over Drive, Exiter, Auto Filter, 
    Chorus and Distortion, but forget about model no.    
    
    Kaz.

	I've seen the BBE Enhancer in the Mags...

	What does this thing do?

	Charlie B

    The BBE separates the highs from the low/mid freqs...basically adds
    harmonics to the high frequencies (basically, adss brightness/clarity
    to them).  The low/mid freqs are slightly delayed.  The unit has two
    controls...one for the mount of proccesing done to the high freq, and
    one to add low freq back into the signal.

    RE: 69
    
    Nope, almost equipments is exported I guess. These equipments has 
    only really basic part which is well known; Delay, Chorus, Flanger, 
    Comp/Lim,.......nothing special )-; Japanese companies has not a great 
    idea such like Rocktron or BEE did do that.
    
    Here's the list of companies:
    
    	Yamaha
    	Roland
    	Tascam
    	Fostex
    	Boss
    	Korg
    	Akai
    
    Kaz.
    
    PS Well may I ask your name??

    re: 54
    
    Thank you buck. Finally I bought RX20 which is very expensive in Japan
    <Sigh>. RX20 is VERY good. I like that 8-).
    
    Kaz.