Conference napalm::heavy_metal

    
        You remember him in 'Back to the Future', right?  How he
        played that solo in front of the people at the dance at
        the High School?
    
        Well, someone went and told Chuck Berry about it and Chuck
        wrote some songs - need I say more?
    
                                                         GTI
    

    My vote is for Eddie Kramer!
    
    Who? 
    
    Yes, Eddie Kramer! Not one of the names that will appear on the
    tip of your tongue, but wait until you see his list of credentials!
    Eddie has produced and/or engineered the following albums:
    
    Jimi Hendrix - Electric Ladyland
    Led Zep - II, IV, Houses of the Holy, Physical Graffitti, and Song
              Remains the Same
    
    Now, IMO, that already puts him in a class by himself. But look
    at what else he has done:
    
    Humble Pie - Rockin' the Fillmore
    Peter Frampton - Frampton Comes Alive
    Kiss - Alive and Alive II
    Fastway - Fastway, All Fired Up
    Triumph - Thunder Seven
    Anthrax - Among the Living
    Ace Frehley - Frehley's Comet
    and others....
    
      I feel he is one of the first, and only, producers to capture
    the feel and power of a rockin' guitar on vinyl. I sometimes wonder
    if it was really Jimmy Page getting all those great guitar sounds
    (remember the POWER of Whole Lotta Love!) or whether it was actually
    Eddie Kramer. (I mean, why do the Firm sound like sludge!)
    
      It is tough to point to any one individual as being THE most 
    influential in HM, but with a resume like Eddie Kramer's, I think
    he is the closest.
    
    Rock On!
    Alan S.

    
    Jim Marshall
    
    Without his dedication to producing the world's most famous valve
    amps, where would HM, or rock in general be today?
    
    Buck

    I think I'd have to say Aerosmith.
    
    Maybe they aren't the sole contributor or anything, but there aren't
    too many hard rock/metal bands out there right now that will say
    that Aerosmith had *nothing* to do with what they are today.
    
    If you listen hard enough, you can hear them everywhere, just about.
    
    (Aerosmith's everywhere!  Aerosmith's everything!  Aerosmith's
    everybody!  Aerosmith's still the king)
    
    PS- Michael J. Fox has *NO* Aerosmith in him!
    
    Stacie Watkins
    

    re .3
    
    Sorry Coop, Buck's right ya know !!!  I think another influence
    was Steppenwolf ( remember "Heavy Metal Thunder" in "Born To Be
    Wild" ?).  I didn't think they were much back then but I like their
    stuff now.
    
    				Mr Scary II

    I'd have to say Deep Purple influenced Heavy Metal.
    
    Just my $.02
    

                                    
    I'd have to say Aerosmith and Ritchie Blackmore (Purple/Rainbow)
    were the most influential.  Ask the likes of Guns 'n Roses/Faster
    Pussycat etc..                  
                                    
    But what muscian can influence a master like Malmsteen???
                                    
    Why Bach and Motzart of course!!
                                    
    My personal influences are/were old Iron Maiden (Killers etc..) 
    Ronnie James Dio, Vivian Campbell and old Whitesnke.
                                                        
    -Tony                                               

    Look at how many groups were formed and re-formed by the break up
    of Deep Purple.
    
    
    	Rainbow (a.k.a Richie Blackmore's Rainbow)
    	Black Sabbath (Ian Gillan, Ronnie Dio)
    	Alcatraz (Graham Bonnet former Rainbow vocalist)
    	Dio
    	Whitesnake (Former DP vocalist)
    	Malmstien (Influenced by Blackmore now has Joe Lynn Turner)
    	
    That's all I can think of right now but I think there are more.
    Can anyone add to this list?
    BC
    

    
    RE:DP family tree
         
    Ozzy Osbourne (Ozzy was from Sabbath)
         
    + I thought Malmsteen was once in Alcatraz
         
    -Tony

    Malmsteen was in Alcatrazz. I have their album "Live Sentence", which
    has a cover of "Since You've Been Gone" on it.
    
    Also in the DP tree, wasn't Ozzy's keyboardist originally in Rainbow?
    
    Alan S.

    Cozy Powell: Rainbow ------> Whitesnake 
    
    -Tony

    
    How about Iron Butterfly, first album called "HEAVY"
              Blue Cheer - "SUMMERTIME BLUES"
    

    
    
    I'd have to agree with .6, because Sabbath was the first "Heavy
    Metal" band as we know them today. Not only were they the first
    to really have a metal sound, but they were the first to use the
    "evil" theme of the devil, death, etc.  Now this is not to start
    an argument on whether they worship Satan or anything like that,
    but Satan has been a very popular theme in a lot of what is con-
    sidered heavy metal.  In my opinion, even the bands whose writing
    seems to indicate Satan worship only do it because of the image
    it portrays, and that all started with Sabbath.  
    
      Bands like Led Zep and Deep Purple were the forefathers of what
    we now consider "heavy rock" and I don't think it is fair to 
    categorize these bands as the first metal bands, although they
    probably did influence future heavy metal and heavy rock bands.
    
      Credit for any and all of todays rock goes to all the dudes in
    the 50's and 60's who didn't really know what they were getting
    into, but turned those electric guitars up a little louder than
    anyone else had and started to wail.  
    
      One other band that deserves mentioning is Judas Priest for 
    starting that ever so heavy twin-guitar attack.  I really can't
    think of any hard rock bands before them that used the two guitar
    format in the way they did, and in the way that so many of today's
    great metal bands do now.
    
    Sean

    
    Different people are likely to have different influences.  
         
    -Tony     

    Has to be Priest.  Gawd I love that rawnch.  Seems to me that between
    Judas Priest, Black Sabbath, and JS Bach, that is the end of the
    issue.
    
    Personally, I like Priest better than Black Sabbath.  Why ?  'Cuz.

    Seems like Priest was the first band to come on stage with their
    Harleys and mic'd exhausts.  The first to wear leather, studs, and
    spandex...The first to "bang heads"...
    
    Need I say more ?
    
    JC
    
    BTW - Jim Marshall no doubt had a lot to say with his stack he said
    it with power.

    ONLY ONE BAND...started my playing drums
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
                  
              B    L    A      C     K    
    
           S   A    B    B    A    T    H
                  
    
                                       JIM...TAMA   

  Buck it could be this.........                          
                 +                        +
                +++                      +++ 
                 +            S           +
                 +                        +              """""
                        B  L  A  C  K                    "   "
                                                         " S "
        *                     B                 *   """"""   """"""
       ***                                     ***  "  B L A C K  "
        *                     B                 *   """"""   """"""
        *                                       *        " B "
                              A                          "   "
                                                         " B "
                              T                          "   "
                                                         " A "
                              H                          "   "
                                                         " T "
                                                         "   "
                                                         " H "
                                                         """""
    
    
                               JIM....TAMA
    
    
    
                              
                            

    
    	   Hmmm... who has the most influence on heavy metal?
    
    	   Two answers spring immediately into mind:
    
    		1) Record Producers (since they determine what
    		   the publich will hear).
    
    		2) The record-buying public (since they have the
    		   money that makes it all happen).
    
    	   Bohemian set of values, yes.  But that's the way the
    	world really works, no?
    
    	-=[MOSAT]=-
    	(still cynical after all these years)

    Producers and the buying public influence radio music.  I don't
    think Metalheads are into the popularity thing too much.  Bands
    like Bon Jovi, Poison, Cinderella, etc. are playing to the public,
    that's why they (IMO) aren't Heavy Metal, aluminum maybe, but not
    like Priest or Metallica.  Do you think most true metal bands plan
    a song around it's crowd appeal ??  I don't.  Metal comes from the
    heart, not from the wallet.  You don't get into Metal to get your
    picture on the cover of People magazine, or to get a 5 million dollar
    hut.  You do it 'cause you got something to say, and you don't give
    a sh*t how people take it, the ones that relate to it are the folks
    that buy the records and pay your bills.  For the rest of 'em, it's
    Tiffany time ......
    
    
    				Mr Scary II

    
    	   No, my point isn't that bands let the money influence
    	their music (which they must do to some extent), but that
    	even the world's greatest heavy metal band (yours perhaps)
    	will not be heard and appreciated unless it is produced.
    
    	   Don't kid yourself... money drives heavy metal as much
    	as it does pop.  It's a fool's paradise, but it's the only one
    	we've got.
    
    	-=[MOSAT]=-
    

    
    I'll say Jimi Hendrix influenced HM the most, because he revolutionized
    the guitar and the way most people looked at it and listened to it.
    He also created alot on new equipment that is still influencing
    HM.  He was also kick*ss on the guitar too.
    
    						The Pizza Guy   <)
    
    Who_thinks_that_insomnia_is_a_great_way_to_catch-up_on_notes.  :-)
    

    
    
    I'm suprised no one mentioned Alice Cooper.He came up with
    the look and the attitude.
    
    
    				M
    				 B
    

    Do you think any of the "acid rock" bands of the late '60's might
    have had an influence on HM?  The only reason I think the answer
    is yes, is because back when Black Sabbath's first album came out,
    I joined my first band and we named ourselves "Satan Acid" (it went
    over real well with our parents :^) especially 'cuz we were only
    in Jr. High).  Now I have dated myself.
    
    I'm thinking along the lines of:  Moby Grape, Jefferson Airplane,
    Strawberry Alarm Clock, Yardbirds, etc.  anybody in this conference
    remember these bands??  They were real HEAVY in their day.
    
    Somebody already mentioned Steppenwolf and Iron Butterfly...
    
    joe.

	RE: .-2
    
    Definitely Alice Cooper.  I remember reading an interview with Randy
    Rhodes where he said that Alice (& band) were one of his big
    influences.
    
    gH 

    
    
    There's 2 more bands I forgot T.Rex and The New York Dolls
     If you have ever seen a video of Marc Bolan of T.Rex
    You would swear it was almost Paul Stanley,and the Dolls 
    have the look and sound of Faster Pussycat,G&R,Hanoi Rocks
    Viper,And Kiss
    
    					M
     					 B
    
    

    ah... you mean Faster Pussycat, G&R, Hanoi Rocks, Viper, and Kiss
    have the look and sound of the New York Dolls?
    	The 'Dolls have been a big influence to the sound and style
    of a lot of bands since.
    
    /Motorbreath...wasn't Blackie a Doll?

    
    RE 29.
    
    I remember all those bands you mentioned. I think many of the 60's
    and 70's groups did much to influence HM. Hendrix, Cream and how
    about Uriah Heep? Anyone remember these guys. If not find a copy
    of Look At Yourself. (we're talking crank'in now). As mentioned
    in another topic these guys used keyboards extensively.

    I gotta agree about Uriah Heep.  I had forgot about them.  They
    did have a truly powerful guitar/keyboard mix.  Demons and Wizards,
    and Magicians Birthday to me are classic albums.  
    
    
    				Mr Scary II

    This topic jogged me a bit, so I went home last night and listened
    to some old Alice Cooper.  He had to be an influence on HM!  What
    I was listening to was the 'Killer' album.  That sucker came out
    in 1971.  If you have it, it has a song (3rd one on side 1) that
    I think is called 'Halo of Flies' that has elements of many current
    HM trends in it.  Some parts are even a little like thrash.
    
    gh

    Alice had a really good band, back then (pretty good now).  I think
    the band never got the attention they deserved.  They always had
    a good guitar sound.
    
    re:.37  Pete, if you want songs with variety, that one has a bunch,
    just within itself...
    
    gh 

    Steve Hunter on guitar for Alice was great. Especially check out
    the live LP 'The Alice Cooper Show'. Another place Steve Hunter
    really shined was the intro to Lou Reed's "Sweet Jane" from
    the live LP 'Rock and Roll Animal". Great guitar work!
    
    Where is he now?
    
    cat

    Anybody out there ever get into (come on, admit it) Grand Funk
    Railroad ?  When I started playing music it was on drums and TNUC
    was a favorite tune (backmasking wasn't heard of then ....).  The
    entire live album cooked, and "Mean Mistreater" was enough to make
    you want to cry.  I didn't listen to them too much after Craig Frost
    was officially added, some of you probably know why.
    
    
    					Mr Scary II
    

    Alice's first couple of albums were really awesome!!  I LOVE 'Halo
    of Flies' and, yes prc, I think we could attempt it.  What was the
    the first album, 'Love It To Death'?  There was a very strange tune
    on it called, 'The Ballad of Dwight Frye', "mommy, where's daddy?
    He's been gone such a long time.  Do you think he'll ever come home?"
    The guitars MADE that band for me.
    
    Re: -.40 Grand Funk Railroad!  I used to like that song 'Paranoid',
    you know the one that started out with a siren.  They were real
    popular around '70 or '71.
    
    joe.

    
    Alice's first albums are Pretties For You and Easy Action 
    produced by Frank Zappa,these albums were not up to par
    he didn't use the makeup either.
    
    					M
    					 B
    

    
    Toooooooooooo! fast for me Pete.
    
    
    					M
    					 B
    

    
    Good old Grand Funk
    I especially like their covers of "Inside Looking Out" and 
    "Gimmie shelter"
    

    What about Argent, Free, Egar Winter, Ronnie Montrose, or even further
    back Chuck Berry, Fats Domino, Elvis Presley, or even further back
    like from the big band era wasn't there a drum that kicked as* named
    Gene Kruppa or something like that. HM seems like a style that has
    just naturally evolved into what it is today.
    
    
    					KER of digital
    
    

    
    RE. 48
    
    You are correct about Gene Kruppa (sp?). And as a matter of fact
    I believe he was the first drummer to introduce double bass drumming
    techniques. 
    

    RE .48 & .49
    Gene Krupa (sp?) was also one of the first musicians of renown to
    have a drug problem.  I think it was while he was playing with the
    Benny Goodman band in the 1930's that he got seriously involved
    with some drug(s) -- marijuana, heroin, cocaine, or all three. 
    This became highly publicized and caused him to lose a lot of jobs,
    because band leaders didn't want to be associated with "a druggie".
    He later straightened out, but I don't know any more about the guy.
    He was a radical drummer in his day.
    
    joe.

    
       Had to get back to this topic after listening to something
    last night. Anyone out there remember Mountain? The classic
    Mississippi Queen is an early cranker. If you ever listen to
    the album "Flowers of Evil" there is a guitar solo by Leslie
    West before Mississippi Queen that reeks of afterburn from at
    least a dozen Marshalls. An influence without a doubt!!! I saw
    West, Bruce and Lang years ago after Mountain, I can only say
    that fat man can tear up a guitar! 
    
    

      Let's see....
                    Who had the most influence on all the bands that
    followed them?
    
    
                      The  B E A T L E S ...
    
    
    
    B.A.

    
    Your Mother!

    
|    Your Mother!
        
        Exactly !   I can remember day of practicing when me mum used
        ta' grab my  hair  (thank  God it was short then) and slam my
        head against the wall  a couple times while yelling `PRACTICE
        YOUR SCALES OR IT'S INTO THE DISCO PIT !'
        
        That was enough to make ANYONE practice !  YIKES ! 
        
        METALord"�

                                                          
    On a serious note, I got a lecture from my father last night coz
    my 4 hours an evening of practising has gone down to 2 and a half
    hours, cos I've been seeing this girl quite a bit.    
                                                          
    I don't believe it - he is actually supportive of my guitar 
    playing for once!                                     
                                                          
    -Tony (who thinks that two and a half hours a night + band practises
    is still enough to get my chops in order).                     

    Dude, you have to take care of your hormones, Dad'll understand.
    
    8^)

    -1 & -2
    
    I disagree to some extent.
    
    I had this student...15 years old...he was an AWESOME
    guitarist...fast...super-fast, with good ideas, and a good head on his
    shoulder!  Now, he got a BAD case of the hormones (His brain moved to
    his d***), and QUIT the guitar cuz he didn't have enuff time for his
    girlfriend...I mean, like sold EVERYTHING...
    
    What a waste...there should be time for both.
    
    
    I mean, do you think Yngwie had a girlfriend as a teenager?  No way!
    Not with practicing 16 hours a day!  He waited, now he's got all the
    chicks he wants!
    
    B.
    
    

    
    I think Metallica has had a gigantic impact on the HM scene. In '81
    they were sort of unique, now look. A thousand and one thrash/speed
    metal bands.
    
    
    
    
    Christ
      !
     -+-
      !
      !

    Metallica hasn't made as much of an impact (overall) as Kiss did.
    
    so THAIR!
    8^P

    
    
    Which didn't make as much of an impact (overall) as Black Sabbath!!
    
    8*P
    
    
    Goddess F.

    re-1
    
    agreed and also Led Zepplin too,highly influential
    
    
                                                          Staynz

Priest roolz.

    Judas Priest definately paved the way. In those days the HR scene was
    the in until JP came in and took everybody by storm. With Rob Halfords
    voice and Tipton and Downings guitars and there massive studio sound
    (Hell Bent for Leather) album there was no one quite like this HM
    music. Truly unique during this era...
    
                                          stig
    

    Dey was Awesome!!!
    
    
    And Rob Halford's got a voice that nobody else can immitate!  Not too
    many singers are like that.  Dio is one though.
    
    |KS|
    

    While at a party last weekend, someone put on JP Rocka Rolla...
    Hadn't heard that in years.... excellant!

    How many suicides were there at the party?

    Bruce Dickenson hosted a history of British Heavy Metal radio show 
    in the UK last Saturday. The first part dwelled on the 70's in
    particular and most of the names you'd expect were mentioned 
    including Priest. 
    
    No mention of UFO however which I took very badly. I mean how can 
    you pay tribute to a bunch of slappers from the West Midlands 
    wearing heavy duty S&M gear and not even mention a band who shifted 
    greater amounts of records and concert tickets in the mid to late 
    70's than Priest. Upset? Just a wee bit.
          
    barry.    

    I heard that and thought it odd that they missed out stuff like
    Nazareth,although not truely heavy metal but their was Sweet and they
    got a mention.It seemed to be more of a show that Bruce Dickinson
    should have called "my favourite hm bands from the Midlands".
       Funny part was when he said he was scaring some old lady to bits by
    practicing his "child in time" scream at the bus stop when they both
    were waiting for the last bus.
    
    
    						ian

    ...I was just listening to "No place to run" the other day. Excellent
    album.
    

 >      Funny part was when he said he was scaring some old lady to bits by
 >   practicing his "child in time" scream at the bus stop when they both
 >   were waiting for the last bus.
    
    Would that be Bruce Dickinson practicing Ian Gillan's Child In Time
    scream?
    
    

    no it was the old lady.....she took out her teeth and belted out while
    Bruce stood there watching!!! ;^)
    
    
    
    
    					ian

    She was simply trying to frighten him back into the tar pits.