Conference napalm::guitar

    BTW the previous entry and contents do not necessarily reflect
    my opinions or thoughts.....  :^)
    
    Rick
    

    
    	Does that mean the value of my Silvertone goes up, or down?

    While I think there is a lot of validity in this article,  I feel that
    like the auto industry,  things go in cycles. When the quality starts
    pissing off the public enough to effect the bottom line, quality will
    improve though not for the altruistic reason that some would hope.
    
    While greed at one extreme certainly is a factor,  economic realities
    do play a part.  When domestic wages are so different from foreign
    compensation,  that can't be ignored.  Whether the vendor is interested
    in maintaining quality control is another matter.
    
    When Dan Smith and his partners formed a consortium in the late 80s to
    "rescue" Fender,  he had a realistic idea of where things were and how
    to build the comapany back up.  By starting with off-shore production
    and gradually phasing in American-made product,  initailly be making
    clever use of existing inventory,  he executed a logical plamn to
    elevate the comany's image in the public's eyes and thus increase sales
    volume.  Fender was never cagey about where their stuff is made and in
    my opinion some of the Jpanases stuff such as the 50s tele,  is REALLY
    god especially for the dollars. I have a '89 Clapton strat that I bought
    used and it is made and plays really well and the finish is pretty much
    flawless..American made but not Custom shop. And I think a really nice
    remake of a '54 strat with the addition of a beautifully figured maple
    neck that the originals generally did not have with a street price of
    about $1,700 is NOT unreasonable. BTW,  guitar players have always
    gotten off easy compared to say Sax players or string players and that
    could be part of the problem.
    
    Gibson on the other hand is more problematical for me.  I agree that
    you shouldn't need to buy a "Historic Collection" Les Paul to get the
    same quality and sound one would expect from say a new PRS! There used
    to be something MAGICAL about picking up a Gibson, even a Melody Maker, 
    and that ended for me after about 1966.  (I had a '68 "large pickup" SG
    standard that I became thorougly depressed over when it couldn't touch
    my friend's '63 (NOT Les Paul) SG.  And while I don't expect that their
    dot-neck re-issue 335 would feel and sound exactly like my '61 it
    shouldn't be just another guitar either (especially for the price which
    escapes me now but is pretty up there..)
    
    A final note....Epiphone's jazz boxes,  as mentioned elsewhere in this
    conference,  are tremendous Korean made values. So I see little
    consistency in relation between country of origin price and quality and
    THAT is a drag...you have to try the INDIVDUAL instrument to know
    (which we should all do anyway)
    
    Now if I could just find a Benedetto that fell off the back of a
    truck..(just kidding Bob ;-)
    
    Just my two cents...
    
    Barry

ehh, you bet ya,, why pay thousands, when hundreds will
do ??  after all, gotta put this in perspective this
is a hobby for me more than a source of REAL income..

To be honest with you, I've played a Howard Roberts
at the GC last week..  I gotta admit, it didn't
do much for me,,,  It sort of sold me on the fact
that when I go to get my jazz box in a few months,
the Epiphone Emperor Regent will be the choice...

I'll let Steve Goodwin tell you guys what a piece
of trash the new Gretch country gent reissue was like..
(for a lot of money, it's a little bit of guitar!)

    re: -1
    
    Ya,  Gretsch is an interesting case in point...
    
    The company, which had previously gone through multiple
    ownership changes, and near bankruptcy had actually ceased
    all guitar production for a period of time.  But the rights
    to the Gretsch name were purchased back by a family member,
    who set up a company to import guitars supposedly built to
    original specifications.
    
    The Country Gent I tried out recently at GC (actually called
    the country classic, because Gibson now has rights to the
    country gent model name) had a list price of $2800, GC had
    a 'marked' price of around $2150.  For this kind of money,
    I really expected a premium instrument, and I have to admit
    that it looked great hanging on the wall.   BUT - it did not
    play well at all - was not set up properly - did not feel at
    all like 60s Country Gents I played in the past, and worse
    yet, some of the hardware was all but falling off... one of
    the knobs on the lower bout was loose with its pot rattling
    inside the body,  a strap button wasn't threaded fully on.
    
    Ya know what they say about first impressions... my first
    impression was that the Gretsch reissues are seriously lacking
    in the QC area. After that, it was very easy for me to cross the
    Country Classic off the list of Guitars I'd like to own. As far
    as I'm concerned, they might just as well still be out of business.
    
    /Steve

    re: Country Gent guitars-
    
    I read an interview with George Harrison where he pretty mich trashes
    the whole Gretsch/Vox thing..he says something like that the sound that
    everybody would want was "crap" and that he wanted Fender stuff but it
    was scarce in the UK at the time..(OK, the interview was in a book
    devoted to the Strat but I know that there was a romantic desire for
    certain American made stuff personified by the Shadows equipment
    choices (strats, maybe other Fenders and Fender Amps..) I get the
    feeling that the attitude toward Brit made stuff like VOXs was kind of
    like the scientists' distain for anything made in the UK in the file
    HELP.
    
    I know I'll be hearing from VOX and Gretsch freaks :-)
    
    I did have a '65 Tennessean which from a vintage standpoint I regret
    selling but not from a strictly playing/practicality/suitability-for-me
    aspect.  It was a BEAUTIFUL guitar...
    
    Barry
    
    

    I remember seeing that quote from Harrison as well, where the Voxes
    that everybody drools over now THEY considered poor substitutes for
    Fenders.  And yet, I find the AC30 does produce a unique and gorgeous
    sound.  Go figure.
    

    re -1
    
    And Matchless,  which I find pretty incredible have used the AC30 as
    their starting point! Let's see,  do I really want to open another can
    of worms by mentioning the differences inherent in Class A versus Class
    A/B guitar amplification....
    	
    Barry

    >And yet, I find the AC30 does produce a unique and gorgeous
    >sound.  Go figure.
    
    I think this is pretty undeniable. Sure, the Vox AC30 has its
    weakpoints (no master volume, no channel mixing et al, though this was
    pretty much par for the course in the 1960s). That said, the basic tone
    is imimitable. I play through an AC30 in my current band, and while I'm
    quite happy to play through the Fender solid state amps installed in
    the practice room where we rehearse, I wouldn't dream of using them for a
    demo or a gig. My Vox AC30 has no reverb, no master volume, no
    headphone socket...but that tone!
    
    I'm a little surprised at Harrison's comments, but it'd be interesting
    to see what period he was referring to. The Beatles frequently
    conplained of lack of volume in their early Cavern/Hamburg days (hardly
    surprising if you've ever seen the sheer chaos that was going on around
    them!), but Dick Jennings was quite happy to update them with all the
    latest Vox innovations as they became available (on-board top boost for
    extra treble, etc.). The sound that Harrison gets on things like It
    Won't Be Long (Gretsch Country Gentleman through a Vox AC30) sounds OK
    to my ears (!), although it's obviously a question of taste. And if you
    listen to a Carl Perkins rockabilly original after hearing one of 
    Harrison's numerous patsiches, there's little doubting that GH is some way
    ahead tonewise.
    
    Come to think of it, the only British Invasion band I recall grumbling
    about having to "make do" with Voxes as opposed to Fenders were
    Herman's Hermits...no comment! Horses for courses and all that, but I
    also remembering the great Fender endorsee Dick Dale complaining that
    he had never managed to find the really big sound he was looking for until
    very recently.
    
    Dom 
    
    
    
    
    

    re:-1
    
    Bottom line...it's a matter of taste.  I haven't played a VOX for years
    but now I have the urge to try 'em again...BTW in case I wasn't clear
    thru my sarcasm,  I LOVE Matchless amps....but I also like Mesas
    (Boogies and otherwise) Fenders (Prosonic,  VibroKing, Dual
    Professional,  Deluxe Reverb re-issue) and one of the best sounds I ever
    got was with a Gibson Historic Collection '56 (P-90s) LP Goldtop thru a
    Soldano SLO...Maybe sometimes you DO get what you pay for even if it
    could be argued that it is STILL TOO MUCH!
    
    Barry