Conference napalm::guitar

    They released albums from 1971-1975.  So far I only have 'Birds of
    Fire' (1973), and it's very good.  Check out:
    
    http://prog.ari.net/prog/GEPR/m.html#MAHAVISHNUORCH
    
    for more information.
    
    
    Steve

    
    	I believe his latest is devoted to the music of pianist
    	Bill Evans.
    
    	I remember my first exposure to McLaughlin.  The Mahavishnu
    	Orchestra with Billy Cobham and, I believe, Ponty warmed up
    	Beck on his Blow by Blow tour.  Springfield Civic Center.
    
    	Yikes!
    
    	McLaughlin always seems to push the envelope.  He can be
    	somewhat sloppy at times (relatively, of course... ;^) but
    	he can really go out there with his Islamic Holy Jihad Lydian
    	Demented 13th modes...
    
    	One of his albums I really enjoyed was "Johnny McLaughlin"
    	where he played with different musicians throughout the album.
    	Very loose feel to it that hit me at the time.  
    
    	He also does a cool version of Goodbye Porkpie Hat on one
    	of his acoustic albums.  
    
    	Oh yeah - pick up that trio release with DiMealo and DeLucia (sp).
    	I think it was "One Night in San Francisco" or something.
    	
    	Anyone else see that tour?  I caught them at U. Mass.
    
    	Tom
    
    	

    
    
    I've got McLaughlin's "Inner Mounting Flame," which I like a lot, as
    well as  "Love, Devotion, Surrender" with Carlos Santana.  *That* is 
    a cool album with the two of them trading licks.  I *MUCH* prefer the
    wild/out-there electric stuff to the acoustic material.
    
    I actually saw McLaughlin twice, including once at Berklee.  Made we
    want to run out and get a double-neck!
    
    Kevin
     

    Miles, McLaughlin and Jaco?  Sorry Mike, I don't think this
    configuration ever played together.  I'd love to be proven wrong
    though, it would be something to behold.
    
    I *think* McLaughlin's first date with Miles was on "Filles de
    Kilimanjaro", circa late 60's or maybe 1970.  This was a transition
    record from Miles' classic 60's quintet records, toward what eventually
    would become fusion (which Miles is largely credited with inventing,
    so blame him :-).  He's on a couple of other of those early 70's
    'electric Miles' dates too; check out the JAZZ notesfile, there's
    a lot of good information on this topic in there.
    
    /rick
    

Didn't McLaughlin play with Miles on "In A Silent Way" with 
(and this is from a dim memory) Chic Corea and Herbie Hancock?

Jim

BTW, I think "In A Silent Way" was recorded in early 1969.

jim

    McLaughlin played on both In A Silent Way and Bitches Brew
    (there's a song called John McLaughlin on the latter). I
    remember reading that his set-up in those days was a Gibson
    acoustic with a sound-hole pickup straight into an amp. Both
    were recorded in the 69-70 period.
    
    Mike H, is your course focussing on guitar players or are
    you just most impressed by them? :-)

>    Miles, McLaughlin and Jaco?  Sorry Mike, I don't think this
>    configuration ever played together.  I'd love to be proven wrong
>    though, it would be something to behold.
    
    I thought they did on the double album called "B*tches Brew"?  I think
    it was released in '69.
    
    Mike

    One of the times I saw McLaughlin was at WPI, in Woostah Mass.
    He walked out on stage and proceeded to trash away -- admirably,
    I guess, but still trashing -- at an early Arp Avatar.
    Holy overtones Batman, my ears are still ringing. McLaughlin
    opened for Herbie Hancock, and by the time Herbie hit the
    stage, my ears were fried and I couldn't hear squat.

    I saw him again at Berklee and although he was nowhere near
    as deafening, the lack of volume wasn't made up for with
    much of anything else.

    Seriously, I thought McLaughlin blew chunks. He might be a
    great player, but he has a terminal case of what Ike Willis
    refers to as "spoo disease". Namely, his playing is one
    massive wank! Yeah, he can play. So can Yngwe, or whatever
    the hell is name is... who cares!!!

    -b

>Didn't McLaughlin play with Miles on "In A Silent Way" with 
>(and this is from a dim memory) Chic Corea and Herbie Hancock?
    
    Herbie was with Miles in the mid '60s for a short stint.
    
    I believe Chic Corea, Joe Zawinal (later in Weather Report), 
    McLaughlin, and Jaco were on "B*tches Brew."

>    Mike H, is your course focussing on guitar players or are
>    you just most impressed by them? :-)
    
    No I'm just relating the guitar specific stuff that impresses me.  Some
    of the avant garde stuff from McLaughlin in the Mahavishnu Orchestra
    and his John Coltrane influences don't do much for me.  Melody and
    Harmony is important to me and I don't get into this chromatic or
    12-tone scale noise and confusion.  For this reason, I'd have to be
    very careful about what CD's I would buy.
    
    Mike

    re: .10
    
    Nope, the bass on Bitches Brew was Dave Holland (acoustic) and
    Harvey Brooks (electric).
    
    Paul

    Okay then, Jaco was later on.  I got to hear some selections of him
    playing too and he's sick!  

    
    Jaco... wasn't he the brother that never spoke? :-)
    
    -b

John McLaughlin's sloppiness bothers me more than it used to, but I have a
theory about it.  I strikes me that a lot of musicians paint pictures of
the outside world, and their individual stamp on what they create is
basically the way they see the outside world; that way of seeing things
becomes recognizable.  On the other hand, I've always gotten the feeling from
John's playing that he's spewing out some kind of interior landscape in a
pretty direct way; a way that wouldn't allow for much real-time editing or
carefulness.

Paul

    Mike, if you find the name of the recording with Jaco and Miles please
    post it.  I'm betting it was some other bassist with Miles (Marcus
    Miller?) or some other Jaco band (Weather Report? or with Pat Metheny
    perhaps?).
    
    /rick
    

    My favorite McLaughlin recording is "Extrapolation"; this is a
    pre-Mahavishnu date with John on acoustic guitar in a small
    group setting.  The music tends towards the free-jazz side
    of things, but to me it's some of the most accessible free-jazz
    playing around.  Highly recommended.
    
    /rick
    

   My favorite is "Between Nothingness and Eternity".  A live album.  Actually,
   this changed the way I listened to (and played?  who knows) music back in
   the early '70s.  I even copied a few of the bass riffs.  :-)

   His Eastern relgious trappings never appealed to me (especially when he got
   Carlos Santana in the the "Devadip" business), but that has little effect on
   his musical impact.  To each his own.

   I had heard at one point that he was in one of the early 60s "supergroups"
   (like the Yardbirds or something), then did too much acid and faded for a 
   few years, then came back with the shaved head/Eastern religion/"12 tone
   noise" thing.  Anyone know for sure?

   Still, I must say, he had an impact on me.  He's why I got into fusion in
   the 70s, got turned on to Ponty, and Stanley Clarke, saw Return to Forever
   twice, and a whole bunch of other good stuff.  Anyone remember the 1976(?)
   "Sunset Jazz Festival" at Boston College?  I was there, at the ripe old age
   of 16. 

   -- Sam

    > Miller?) or some other Jaco band (Weather Report? or with Pat Metheny
    
    Maybe it was "The Doom Trio" (I think that's what they called
    themselves) - a one gig band consisting of John, Jaco and Tony
    Williams.  I never got to hear this, and I've always been curious what
    they sounded like together.  But I guess if it had been as good as it
    *could* have been, they might have recorded a bit more.
    
    Paul

    Fwiw
    
    Believe it or not, i have an obscure LP (cd) with JM and Jimi Hendrix
    playing together on it. JM plays guitar, Jimi plays bass, Steven Stills
    and Buddy Miles are also on on this session. Timothy Leary-You can be
    anyone this time around.
    
    -kev

    re: .20
    
    I read an interview with John some time ago in which he said he had
    some tapes of him, Jimi, Dave Holland and (I think) Mitch Mitchell playing
    together.  He also said he hadn't released them because they were nothing
    special.
    
    Paul

    I'd like to hear them and decide for myself.Who's Dave Holland? Sounds
    familiar...
    
    -kev

    > I'd like to hear them and decide for myself.
    
    /begin-soapbox-mode
    
    While I understand this sentiment, by no means do I agree
    with it. This implies that an artist doesn't have the
    right to determine what gets released.... of their own
    work! This happens in practice _far_ too much. Some
    record company buys the right to some group of works,
    and the artist unwittingly gets taken in and forced to
    release things that are not up to that artist's standards.
    That's crap. And those that buy such recordings are part
    of the problem...
    
    /end-soapbox-mode
    
    -b

    > Who's Dave Holland?
    
    He's a great bass player.  See his basenote in the JAZZ notesfile for
    more info...
    
    Paul

    RE 3096.23
    
    I can see your point. I think i can give you an example of a reason to
    show another perspective on that topic. I play myself. I do a lot of
    jamming and recording as well. I'm no Jimi Hendrix or John M, but i can
    hold my own. When friends hear these recordings i often have very good
    things back from them, 90% of thetime i think it's garbage, or i could
    do that better if....
    Jimi hendrix thought Band of Gypsys sucked but was under contract to
    release it and so we now have hundreds of thousands of people think
    that lp is amazing (including myself).Where would i be with out the
    inspiration of Machine Gun??
    
    just my 2 cents,
    
    -kev

    Here's a couple of more:
    
    Randy Rhoads thoght the mix on Diary sucked, I don't remember the
    general pulic comlaining.
    
    Eric Johnson recently pulled/delayed/re-recorded a release because he
    THOUGHT it was less than perfect.Would we have known the dif??
    (Via Music com [sp?])
    
    -kev

    And i forgot Claplon's Unplugged...How many did that sell?? Didn't he
    hate that CD and deemed it unfit for release? 
    
    That's all, I'm goin home,
    
    -kev

>    And i forgot Claplon's Unplugged...How many did that sell?? Didn't he
>    hate that CD and deemed it unfit for release? 
    
    Glad to know I'm not the only one with that opinion.
    
    	db

    
    	I remember John McLaughlin and how much I loved him as a teenager.
    He did seem to "push the envelope" of what he could do, as if that was
    part of the fun of playing. He'd trade solos with Carlos and Jean-Luc
    in a sort of "oh yeah? - take that!" manner - and I can remember he'd
    be so upset when Jean-Luc would somehow out maneuver him technically.
    
    	Like Sam, it was because of John McLaughlin that I got into Jan
    Hammer, Weather Report, Jean-Luc Ponty, Billy Cobham and a host of
    other Jazz-Rock players. And did you know, if it wasnt for John, Miami
    Vice probably would have had someone else doing the soundtracks all
    those years. I heard it was John who liked this obscure Czech jazz 
    pianist and brought him to the US.
    
    	A couple of years ago, I saw a teenager with a "Inner Mounting
    Flame" disk in his hand, from the cut-out bin. I said "Buy that."
    
    	Joe

    Check out an album (CD) called "SPACES". This was a Larry Coryell album
    which featured John Mclaughlin along with Miroslav Vituos (sp?) on
    bass, and Chick Corea on electric piano. I think it's still in print.
    
    

Some replies to various things said here........

McLaughlin is a genuis!  To me, he was a key musical inventor.
I thought this back in 1973 and still do.

McLaughlin's 1st playing w/Miles was "In A Silent Way".  Miles
got him based on Dave Holland's rec.  He flew over from England
and recorded Silent Way the next day.   He's also on; Big Fun, 
Theme From Jack Johnson, Live-Evil, Get Up With It, You're Under
Arrest, Aura, On The Corner, Bitches Brew. All great.

I have 50+ Miles albums, several bootlegs, many interviews - never
heard that Jaco played with him.  I'd be surprised if that was true.

The Trio Of Doom was McLaughlin/Tony Williams/Jaco and did 2 or 3
tunes at a live post-woodstock type gig. Mostly rock groups, late
70's or 1980.  Very cool.  A bass-player friend of mine in Hull who
I don't talk to often has the album.  It was kinda like Mar-Y-Sol.
Mar-Y-Sol also had the 1st Mahavishnu on it and it smokes! 

McLaughlin's most recent album is a trio with Dennis Chambers - drums
and Joey DeFrancesco on B3 and Miles' trumpet.  Some people referr to this
being similar to LifeTime, but I wouldn't agree.

One of his greatest somewhat recent CD's is "Que Alegra".   Great
compositions.  Kind of like quiet energy.   Moving stuff.   This is
 a followup to "Live in Paris".  It's with Trilok Gurtu on percussion
(breathtaking!) and Dommenic DiPiazza on bass (amazing & tasteful),
Kai Eckhardt bass on a few tunes.  McLaughlin plays nylon string which
is sometimes 'followed' by photon-synth.  Similar to "Live Paris" but
stronger compositions.  Great band interplay too.  Highly recommended.

A cool old record (1970?) is Devotion.  It's got Buddy Miles - drums,
Larry Young - B3 organ, and a bass player I can't recall.  Neat!

I love all the original Mahavishnu.  "Apocolypse" is also one of my favorites
 with Jean-Luc Pony, Narada Michael Walden, Ralph Armstrong on bass and the 
 London Symphony Orchestra - way cool!

/Paul

    McLaughlin may put out lots of junk, but...*I* still like alot of his
    stuff. I saw him live with Shacti or whatever it was called. Indian
    acoustic stuff. It may be overplaying but he is expressing himself from
    what I saw. I don't think he is playing fast for the buck...most of the
    time. I loved "Go Ahead John" from Miles Davies's Big Fun album, but
    I don't think it's on CD. My favorite album by him is 'between
    nothingness and eternity'. Sloppy, loud and fast! This album is what
    made me want to pick up the guitar...and people have regretted it ever
    since.
    Is the Lifetime stuff like 'one world' with Jack bruce available on
    CD?
    
    jay

    
    I'm not sure about the Lifetime recordings, but when are
    the Shakti recordings coming out on CD?  I used to have them
    all on vinyl, and as I remember there were at least 
    two studio recordings and one live.  These were my 
    favorites. 
    
    Dave
    
    
    

re:  .33

I've seen the first Shakti album on CD (I think that was the live one).
I'm watching for my favorite ("Natural Elements") to show up on CD, but
haven't seen it yet.

I like John's latest ("After The Rain") a lot; it's an organ trio with
Joey DeFrancesco and Elvin Jones (!).  I intend to spend some time
dissecting his solo on "Take The Coltrane", because there's a lot to be
learned from it.

Paul

    
    Funny this is brought up! I used to have a Shakti ablum way back
    in the seventies. Lately I've been getting some more instrumental 
    tapes for the long car rides that I have to do. I've looked everywhere
    around here (S. NH) for a Shakti tape, has anyone seen any in the
    stores? All in all I find the selections of instrumental and Jazz
    to be very poor in NH.  Maybe I ought to take a drive to Harvard sq. 
    this weekend ;-)
    
    Shaw
    

    
    Re: .32 "Big Fun" is out on CD.  I've seen it a number of times in
    the better stores - Newbury Comics (Shrewsbury), Tower Records, etc.
    It's probably pretty pricy.  I saw "Get Up With It" - now an import
    CD only for a mere $34.  Good thing it's a double ehh?  8>)
    
    /pc
    

    For those of you that were looking for 'Shakti' on CD, 
    Noteworthy has it:
    
    
>[_] ($9.59) MCLAUGHLIN,JOHN
>     SHAKTI (CBS, Jan 15, 1991)

    
    where is Noteworthy?
              

re: .38
    
>    where is Noteworthy?
              
Noteworthy is a mail-order company with pretty good CD prices.

Here's the info I have:

	Noteworthy Music
	17 Airport Rd
	Nashua NH 03063

	800-648-7972 (US and Canada)
	Fax: 603-883-9220
	WWW: http://www.netmarket.com/
	Telnet: netmarket.com

-Hal

    ...and you can pick up your orders at their office, right off Amherst
    St. in Nashua.

    their mailorder is fast too.  I once placed an order after 5:00 P.M.
    and still got it the next day (Mass. area of course)
    

    ...check out  http://www.cs.ut.ee/~andres_d/mclaughlin/home.html

    
    A few nights ago, I was at HMV sorta in a hurry, I saw a tape in the 
    jazz section on my way out, and regret not having picked it up, 
    I can't remember the title of the album, but it was Mclaughlin's 
    tribute to J. Coltrane, on the cover there 's picture of John holding
    an accoustic.  Has anyone heard this one. I live in S. NH but I 
    guess it might be worth driving down to Cambridge for this. 
    
    Shaw

    I heard a track off of the Coltrane tribute on
    the radio the other night.  It was Naima, or
    After the Rain I think.  It sounded _great_. 
    
    Dave
    

He may be holding a classical guitar on the cover, but from what I 
can tell, he must be playing the Epiphone hollow body electric that's
been with him on the last CD with Dennis Chambers and Joey D.

pc

    Has anyone got McLaughlin's latest CD called "The Promise" ?  I saw
    a Newbury Comics ad saying "Featuring; Sting, Jeff Beck, Al D'Meola"
    
    The 1st 2 names sounds like a departure!  Wonder if some of this
    was spawned by the session he and Sting did on the latest Hendrix
    tribute (In From The Storm).  They covered "The Wind Cries Mary".
    McLaughlin takes no prisoners on that one!
    
    Be interested to know about the latest one!
    paul
    

    Don't have it, but it got a rave review in one of the guitar mags
    I read (either "Guitar Player" or "Guitar for the Practicing
    Musician").
    
    Don't put too much credibility on those reviews though.  Although
    Guitar Player made a big deal about "taking off the gloves" when
    reviewing equipment, they still pretty much "never get a record
    they don't like" in the review section.   I think the same goes
    for GFTPM.
    
    The way to interpret those reviews seems to be rave=good,
    non-rave=sucked.
    
    	db

    So, has anybody picked up "The Promise"?  What's it like?
    
    Paul

    
    	I have it.  The tunes are different depending on who he's 
    	playing with.  The DeLucia / DiMeola tune sounds like what
    	you'd expect and is far different than the fusion stuff.
    
    	The arrangements are all good, to me.  But it starts out with
    	Beck and Jeff just blows him away to my ears.  
    
    	I'm enjoying it, however.
    
    	Tom
    
    
    

    Haven't heard the whole thing but the one track with
    Michael Brecker sounds pretty much like you'd expect -
    fast and furious fusion.  I probably wouldn't get it, just 
    because Sting is on it.   
    
     I caught the Free Spirits show at the Charles River
    Ball Room last Friday.  I saw the same show Bob Blumenthal
    reviewed in the Globe (he was unimpressed), and I thought it 
    was fantastic.  Joey Defrancesco seemed a little under the 
    weather, but John and Dennis Chambers made up for it.  I'm not a 
    huge fan of how Chambers plays up tempo swing (its sounds too 
    heavy for me), but man can he groove and do the polyrythms. 
    The audience was totally into it, guitar - drum duels and all. 
    I'm glad we were in back, too close and I'll bet all
    you could hear was drums, even though they were facing across 
    the stage.    
    
    McGloughlin was playing the most beautiful guitar I've 
    ever seen - a red Johnny Smith.  Really georgeous even 
    from the back of the room. 
    
    Dave
    

    I was skipping thru The Promise on one of those in-store headphone
    cd listening stations and the first cut "Django" had Beck on it.
    Sounded sweet. I maybe wrong, but this may be the standard that's
    in The Real Book. Yes?  Very nice melody and really nicely stated by
    Jeff in his usual classy style.
    
    I really didn't spend much time listening to it, but a quick sample
    made me wonder if it spanded many boundaries... too many?
    
    pc
    

    I picked up "The Promise" this weekend and really like it.  McLaughlin
    covers alot of ground musically in terms of styles, feels, energy.  1st
    I thought it was going to be one of those albums that has too many
    stars on it, but after hearing it a few times, I think it is very
    nicely crafted!  The opener "Django" is the John Lewis (MJQ) tune,
    here though they do it in 3/4 time - the tune is much cooler this way!
    
    From wild bashing to romantic acoustic stuff ...  check it out.
    
    And if you don't like Sting - you only have to listen to his bass
    playing for 1:12 on English Jam, a trio thing w/Vinnie Coliuita...
    8>)  Actually, Sting's bass isn't real up there in the mix either.
    
    pc
    

    
    Sounds like a good review.  The "After the Rain" (tribute
    to Coltrane) cd might also be interesting, anyone check 
    out that one? 
    
    Recently I got a tape of Inner Worlds.  Remember that? 
    With Narada Michael Walden (drums/singing) and quite
    a bit of guitar-synth?  I think this is from the '70s.  
    This is another I personally would not buy, since there
    isn't enough jamming.  I think it was around the 
    time of Visions of the Emerald Beyond, which I 
    remember as liking quite a bit.  
    
    
    Dave
    
    

    >Sounds like a good review.  The "After the Rain" (tribute
    >to Coltrane) cd might also be interesting, anyone check
    >out that one?
    
    I like "After the Rain" a lot.
    
    Paul

    re:53.  Right. Inner Worlds followed Visions Of The Emerald Beyond.
    Despite some sour stuff, IW does have a couple cool things "Miles
    Out", "All In The Family" (the opener) - Stu Goldbergs B3 solo
    is out on a limb!  Also thought "Lotus Feet" was a neat piece.
    
    /paul
    

    So, has everybody found the hidden message on the cover of "The
    Promise"?
    
    Paul

    No!  I thought it was a cool looking cover, but don't leave me
    hanging!! 
    
    what it is? 
    
    p
    

    It's nothing profound; the fun is in seeing it for yourself.
    Ok, you gotta trust me on this... 8^)
    
    Hold the cover directly in front of your eyes, and focus somewhere
    in the imaginary distance.  Now, start moving the cover slowly away
    from you, resisting the temptation to focus directly on it as you
    do so.  Experiment with this until you can see the cover as a 3-D image;
    when it does, you'll see the message "standing out" from the
    background.  Psychedelic!
    
    Paul

    Before the spectacle of me standing in Lechmere's figuring this out for
    myself starts amusing anybody too much, let me hasten to point out that
    I found out how to do this by reading it on a cereal box once.
    
    8^)
    
    Paul

    
    	Oh, 1 of those.  "Magic Eye" designs.
    
    	My "coffee mug o' the week" has 2 of those on it, 1 a smiling
    	face and the other a sad face.  But the images are warped due
    	to the curvature of the mug.