Conference napalm::guitar

    A few months ago when I was on STD I started playing with the
    jazz minor scale. I've read about it before and tried to do 
    something with it but it never made much sense to me musically.
    THis time something clicked. 
    
    The jazz minor scale is a dorian scale with a major seventh,
    so the notes are 1,2,-3,4,5,6,7. So, in the key of Am, the notes
    are A, B, C, D, E, F#, G#. But this scale is usually played over 
    dominant seventh chords. There are two ways that the scale is
    used. 
    
    The first way is to play this scale over the dominant
    chord starting on the fourth degree of the scale. Hence, the
    A jazz minor would be played over the D7 chord. Relative to
    the D7 chord, this yields 1,2,3,#4,5,6,-7. According to Emily
    Remler, this is primarily used when the dominant chord does
    not resolve to the chord a fifth below, e.g. in "Girl From
    Ipanema", where the first psrt of the chord progression
    is I-IIx-ii-V, you would use this scale over the IIx chord.
    
    The second way to use this scale is to play over a dominant
    chord which starts on the seventh degree of the scale. Hence,
    the A jazz minor would be played over the Ab7 chord. Relative
    to the Ab7 chord, this yields 1,-2,#2,3,-5,#5,-7. So the A
    jazz minor contains all the 'altered tones' (-9,#9,-5,#5) 
    commonly used in conjunction with the Ab dominant chord. 
    Using this scale in a ii-V-I or a iim7b5-V-i progression
    can produce a really nice 'tension and release' effect.
    For example, in the key of G, the ii-V-I progression is
    Am7-D7-G. Use the A dorian scale over the Am (I like to 
    use just the A,C,E,G and maybe B notes), then use the 
    D# jazz minor scale over the D7 chord (D D# F F# G# A# C),
    then use the G major scale over the G chord. Notice how 
    it gets dissonant but then resolves to a 'pretty' ending.
    Note that a lot of notes in thsi scale are 'in between'
    the notes in the Am dorian or G major scale. Hence, you
    can construct lines that move chromatically to connect
    the notes in the arpeggios of the chords.
    
    I can also see how (although I am not at all capable of
    doing this yet) you could play this scale over a progression
    like A7-D7-G7-C7-F7 and just move it down the neck one fret
    every time the chord changes to get a real dense chromatic
    effect.
    
    There are probably people who know tons more than me about this,
    any help or pointers you can provide?

Mine's simpler.  I'm working on Bellbottom Blues from the Layla album.  I've
got the chord progressions working and can sing it.  Now I'm working on adding
the lead guitar runs.  All played acoustic solo.

Jim

    I'm working on using more counterpoint when I play over changes.
    
    Paul

    I've been working on three things lately:
    
    1) A solo fingerstyle version of "Grandfather's Clock" inspired
       by the version by Tony Rice and David Grisman on "Tone Poems."
       (A great CD, BTW.  Each track is a different pairing of a
       similiar vintage guitar and mandolin.)
    
    2) A solo fingerstyle version of "Hymn of Ordinary Motion" off of
       the Jerry Douglas, Russ Barenburg and Edgar Meyer CD "Skip, Hop,
       and Wobble."  The trio version was in Acoustic Guitar a few
       months back (the one with the Douglass/Barenburg/Meyer interview).
    
    3) "Fairest Lord Jesus" on classical guitar.  (The version Christopher 
        Parkening plays on "Simple Gifts").
    
    Another Jim 

    
    Bach Fugues on Chapman Stick.
    
    -b

	Dave - great note!  That's some serious stuff you're working
	on....

	Other than detaching my fingers... :), here's some of what I've
	been trying lately with lead playing;

	. Anticipating the next chord - for some reason, this was something
	that I never noticed that I _didn't_ do.  There's always this
	slight delay when playing over a progression.  Next chord -
	next scale.  Now, I've been trying to play over the next chord
	a beat or so before it gets there.

	It's weird how I all of a sudden recognized this problem in my
	playing and then just did it by thinking about it.

	. Chromatics - not so much several notes in a row, more like
	sliding into the "correct" notes.  In the immortal words of
	the Teutonic Titwillow - "from below and above...".

	In normal A Dorian scale, lots of b9 to 9, b3 to 3rd to 4 to b5.
	Instead of the usual 5 to 6, using #5 too...

	Bottom line is making every note work by sliding to a correct
	one via these passing tones.

	Tom	

	>Bottom line is making every note work by sliding to a correct
	>one via these passing tones.
    
    This brings to mind something related that I've been working
    on...putting chromatic notes on as many weak beats as my presence
    of mind will allow and sometimes leaping (rather than stepping) off
    them to scale tones.
    
    I highly recommend this if you're looking for a way to tie your brain
    in knots.  8^)
    
    Paul

    
    	Paul - I'll try a few leaps tonight.  That's literally a good
    	jump from what I've been doing.  But what do you mean
    	by "weak beats" ??  
    
    	Tom
    

    >But what do you mean by "weak beats" ??
    
    I mean, for example, the even-numbered eighth notes in a 4/4 measure.
    The (western?) ear seems to infer harmonic definition more from the
    strong beats, so you can get by with murder on the weak ones.
    
    Paul

    I'm working on every song ever played by the band Dream Theater for me
    new DT cover/tribute band!

    
    An excellent topic!
    
    I'm trying to incorporate larger intervals into my soloing
    technique as well as upstepping my perpetual quest for 
    experimenting with rhythm and time.
    
    Kev --
    

    Great note
    
    	At the moment I am working on trying to play in something other
    	than blues and minor pentatonic scales. 
    		So my approach (technical, I'm a field circus enginerr)
    	Is to break down the song,analyze the key, chords, notes that
    	make up the chords,and then try to play in different modes,scales
    	etc.
    
    		I have two weeks off, so I will let you know how I go.
    
    	P.K.

    Let's see, I'm renovating the 1st floor bathroom, installing ceramic
    tile in the Kitchen, refinishing the woodworking in the hallway, and
    getting ready to start coaching my son's soccer team. Seriously!
    It doesn't leave much time for playing music.
    
    When I do have time to play, I've been mostly working on my bottleneck 
    slide technique. I've read a few interviews with Sonny Landreth and I'm 
    trying to benefit from his advice. He gives a lot of info on how to fret 
    behind the slide to get various chords and note patterns for soloing. 
    Sonny uses tons of differant tunings, but in an effort to keep it
    simple, I mainly work in open G or A. I've gotten to the point with it 
    that I feel fairly comfortable playing most pentatonic stuff, and there
    is also a lot of incidental stuff that you come across when working in
    non-standard tunings. You come across them by accident and find
    yourself using them automatically. You also realize that open G (or A),  
    is the same as banjo tuning. You can do banjo rolls on the top 2
    strings a lot easier in open G than standard tuning. I often play in 
    open G without a slide, just to get used to fretting in the non-standard 
    tuning. After 35 years of playing strictly standard tuning, the brain 
    can be stubborn about learning these new tricks, and when you only have
    a few hours per week to get down to playing, it comes slow. 
    
    Othen than that I have a lot of toys to play with. Far more toyz
    than time! I often play my Guild 12-string. I've only owned a 
    12-string for the past 2 years so I'm still learning what works 
    on 12 string and what doesn't. 
    
    The one thing I would like to do eventually is to get some decent
    results with my recording gear. I've owned a Tascam 4-track for
    well over 5 years, as well as tons of other gear, but have never 
    really done much with it. Friends and family are always asking me 
    for a tape of some of my music, but I have nothing decent to give
    them. It's tough when you're raising 2 kids, and trying to keep
    up with a house, and a job. I'm really thankful that I got a 
    chance to play on a CD though. I played bass on a friend's project
    about 3 years ago. The CD was entitled "Dont Ask" by the Semantics.
    It's a pretty cool disk that sounds like it was recorded in '66,
    but most of the songs are originals from this century!
    
       Later, Gotta go crash!
       Mark

    
      Just started "killing floor" by the Electric Flag.  Bloomfield did a
      great lead intro to this song.   

Another thing I've been fooling around with is ways to make the symmetrical
diminished scale a little more intuitive to deal with in realtime.  I've 
stumbled onto two that seem particularly helpful:

1)  Dividing the scale into fragments of a "jazz minor" scale.  For example,
    C C# D# E F# G A A# can be divided into C C# D# E F#, D# E F# G A,
    F# G A A# C, and A A# C C# D#.  These fragments are scale degrees 7,
    1, 2, 3 and 4 for C# minor, E minor, G minor and A# minor respectively;
    they tumble out very intuitively compared with trying to think about the
    whole diminished scale at once.  Also note that you can cover the entire
    scale with only two of these fragments if they're a tritone apart.

2)  Thinking about the diminished scale as a series of 1, b9, #9, 3 scale
    degree fragments also helps make it more intuitive for me, probably
    because those four notes are the first that pop into my mind when I think
    about an altered dominant chord.

Something helpful both of these have in common is that no matter what you're
doing before you need to switch to a diminished scale, one of these fragments
is already right under your fingers.  (BTW, Pat Martino's concept of looking
at the fretboard as the diminished chords divide it make these ideas easier
to apply.)

Paul

    EEEK... Its a no_room_for_arguments note.
    
    	Well ,next week I'm stayin at my girls house for a week and playing
    her dads very old and beautiful gibson SG through his Marshall stack.
    This might not seem interesting to you lot but its a crackin set-up and
    I cant wait.
    	I'm also startin a new three piece band with me singin and playin
    the guit. I've got about 30 sets of lyrics to work on but I need to
    adjust my style for the three piece .
    	I'm not really sure how much lead/rhythm I can effectively use in
    each song .With some 3 pieces its great when the rhythms rockin but
    when its comes to a short lead break the power of a trio can die. 
    
    	Any three pieces out there that can recommend some tips on keepin
    the full sound goin whilst addin something different to a song.
    
    	I'm really lookin for some type of rhythm/lead technique which can
    keep the sound full at a pub/club gig where the sheer power of the
    equipment may not always carry a good solo.
    	I'm thinkin of runnin in stereo or buyin extra cabs but i'm not
    sure if this is really what I need
    
    	J. (lookin forward to a week of spaced out rockin and writin and
    briggin a bit of ooomph to a picturesque village in the hills ....
    cackle    cakle   chortle)

>    I'm working on every song ever played by the band Dream Theater for me
>    new DT cover/tribute band!
    
    Dream Theater SUX!

RE: .16: I'm stayin at my girls house for a week and playing her dads 
	 very old and beautiful gibson SG through his Marshall stack

That is one generous dad - to let you stay with his daughter and play
his guitar and Marshall stack.  None of the fathers of women I EVER dated
came close to that.

Jim

    Someone previously mentioned learning to use wider intervals in their
    solos.  This is also something I've been trying to focus on lately;
    getting less linear in my lines, wider skips, more directional shifts.
    

    I recently acquired my first resophonic guitar, a Coriciadin bottle
    slide, and I'm workin' on my technique. I've got an Elmore James 
    CD, so the first thing I did was 'Dust My Broom' in open E.....
    
    
    Bill 

    >Someone previously mentioned learning to use wider intervals in their
    >solos.  This is also something I've been trying to focus on lately;
    >getting less linear in my lines, wider skips, more directional shifts.
    
    Sorry, I'm not too clear what we mean by wider inetrvals here - can you
    elaborate? I gather you mean playing notes that are a fifth apart rather
    than a third apart...is that it?
    
    Dom_who's_been_trying_to_nail_Brian_Setzer's_style-of_late_but_without_
    much_success ;-)
     

    Sure.  I find a lot of my playing involves running lines of consecutive
    notes; scales, arpeggios, etc.  In some ways it's natural to connect
    notes this way when you're playing, but I notice that when I hear a
    great melody it almost always involves interesting skips or breaks.
    So I'm forcing myself *NOT* to do sequences of ascending or descending
    notes as much as possible; experimenting with different intervals,
    6ths, 9ths, etc. also doing things like changing or alternating ascending
    vs descending a lot.  The ultimate goal is to get my improvised lines to
    sound more like melodies, or at least to be coherent but less predictable.
    
    /rick

    Actually, I'm gonna play remote guitar for Bucks DT Tribute band
    (from Colorado).  :-)
    
    I constantly work on Dream Theater tunes to break the bad habits
    I've made "mine" for years - especially playing in boxes.  Since
    I really get off the the structure of the tunes and the intense
    challenge, I'll be busy for years to come.
    
    ...Then every once in a while, I come up with something original and
    new and record it.  I've been doing a lot of composing on the computer
    where I'll record all my "ideas", then cut-n-paste it all together
    using a WAV editor.  Instant tune.
    jc

    
    Actually, I've gone back a few steps... I've pulled out my
    old bass theory books and started revisiting all the scales,
    church modes, arpeggio's, etc. After a couple of years of doing
    nothing but rock'n'roll, I've found my jazz chops and sight-reading
    have suffered a bit (rock guitarists may have lots of fun shreddin'
    it up, but the bass lines are usually 197 measures of 8th notes...
    all of them on E... gack!!) I try to get in 1-2 hrs of practice
    time per day (sometimes more, sometimes less). I start off by 1/2 hour
    of finger-exercises, scales and such; then another 1/2 hour of sight
    reading various charts (Steely Dan being my fav) and then another
    1/2 hour to an hour of working on new techniques, like two handed
    tapping, slap'n'tickle stuff (anyone can learn to do it fast, but the
    trick is to do it fast and *clean*). Then I vegetate in my La-Z-Boy!!
    
    /Billy_K

    
    RE:  Steely Dan
    
    I've got an excellent book, full of charts (meaning *everything*
    is notated in standard:  guits, keys, vocals, horns, and even drums).
    Trouble is, I really haven't had the time to dig deep into all
    that is going on in their music (and there usually is quite a
    bit to digest).  
    
    This is something I've been meaning to work on for a while now.
    
    Behold!
    Kev --
    

    Check out the Brian Setzer video from Hot Licks. It comes with
    tabulature of the music played on the video. Takes a lot of
    work to get up to speed, but it's well worth the price.
    
    Hot Licks usually has an ad in Guitar Player magazine. You
    can order the video's by phone.
    
    Bye for now
    

    I always have multiple things going on:

    -  Just rented the Scott Henderson instructional video (REH video).  He
       gives some great examples of the use of various scales and
       arppegios over various altered chord forms.   I surprised myself by
       following almost all of what he said.  His examples seem very
       abtainable.  I'd really like to go back over this tape carefully.
       It'd be great if I could develop an intuitive feel for this stuff. 
       Anytime I try to sound "jazzy" when improvising, it is such a
       painfull mental exercise that it comes across that way when you
       listen to my attempts.   (Talk about emotionless music!  That's me
       trying to play jazz).
    
    -  For ear training, chop building, and humbleness I've been
       transcribing (the guitar parts of) every Dregs and Steve Morse
       Band song that I like.  That's a lot of songs and he writes 'em
       faster than I can figure them out (still on the last Dregs release
       and the new SMB release is already out), so this is ongoing.

       I hope to get a MIDI pickup and some music transcription software to
       make this easier.  I've been getting lazy and just memorizing the
       parts instead of writing them out. -- which means that after a while
       I forget them.  I've been doing this for a couple of years now.

    -  Working on the technique of playing harmonics by picking the note
       while simultaneously fretting the note and lightly touching the note
       1 octave higher (the right hand does the picking and the touching).
       When you get really good at this you can play relatively fast and
       real smoothly, etc.   Still working on it...
    
    -  Working through the Mick Goodrick book "Advancing Guitarist".  
       A lifetime endeavor if taken to its full extent.  This one isn't
       quite on the stove right now, but it has been before and it will be
       again.

    
    What am I working on?
    
    Finding new and exciting ways to prepare bologna as I spend
    every available cent on guitar toyz!!!!!!
    
    Kev --
    

    An acoustic set for the summer.Camping season is coming quickly and 
    i think it's about time that i started hacking out some camp-fire
    fav's.
    
    -kev

    RE: -1 ...camping
    
    Did you ever see that weird-ass "Backpacker" from Martin?!?!
    
    
    Kev --
     

    
    re-1
    
    are you talking about the guitar that looks like it's a half finished
    kids toy?Definately a gimmick!
    
    
    					ian

    
    That's got to be the one.  Camping requires a guit nice enough
    to sound good with some decent volume and lame enough to drop 
    all over the place when you're hammered.
    
    Kev --
    

    Lame enough to drop all over the place when your hammered.So very true.
    
    -kev

    Wait a minute. I've got one of the little Martin Backpackers, and I
    love mine. It's not very loud, and it sounds more like a tenor
    instrument than a normal acoustic, but it's still quite playable,
    and in many instances it's the perfect thing. Many of the camping 
    areas where I've stayed have strict rules regarding noise and with
    the Backpacker I can play into the wee hours without disturbing
    anyone. It's so light, you can carry it for miles and forget that 
    you're even carrying it. I've got other acoustics that I travel with
    but I usually take the Backpacker along anyways. 
    
    There is also a similar product called the Vagabond Travel guitar
    which has a slightly larger body, but it costs double what a Backpacker
    costs. The Backpacker sells for about $200 with a nylon case. The 
    Vagabond is about $350.
     
    The National Resophonic that I just bought (see note 333) is another
    small instrument that'll be perfect for traveling. Between the 
    Backpacker and the Reso, I'll be all set for standard playing as well
    as slidin'!!
    
    Mark
    
    

    I wonder why i've never heard of this Backpacker rig? Do they still
    make them?
    
    Just Curious,
    
    -kev

    
    	I'm really concentrating on much lighter grip pressure and
    	keeping my arms closer to my body.
    
    	On my downswing, I'm driving my legs thru the hitting zone
    	quicker and also...  oops, wrong conference.
    
    	Tom Watson
    

    For a minute there I thought you were describing your new
    noting style
    
    :-)
    

    Kev,  Backpackers are still available. Most of the mail order catalogs
    have them. BTW, Martin does not actually make the Backpacker. It is
    made for them by a manufacturer in Mexico. I see an advertisement on
    the back cover of many guitar rags that show the Backpacker in outer
    space. I think one of them was sent on a space shuttle mission or
    some such. 
    
    A guy I know from Fitchburg Mass makes a copy of the backpacker with
    a special attachment which makes it comfortable to hold on your knee.
    He sells his for about $129. They are almost an exact copy, except 
    that his have nitro-cellulous lacquer finishes. I almost bought a 
    gloss black one from him last year but I can't play 2 of these at
    the same time, so it wouldn't do me much good. 
    
    Mark

    Thanks for the info Mark.I'll keep my eyes peeled.I gotta see one of
    these.
    
    

    
    ... The Backpacker
    
    I can see the case this thing must come with.  Probably looks
    alot like the one I store my Remington 12 ga. in.  
    
    What the hell though, I suppose if it sounds o.k., then go for
    it.  
    
    Kev --
    

    The case is a black nylon bag, with a large accessory compartment. 
    Not much differant than the average gun bag. 
    
    I believe the design of the Backpacker is based on centuries-old Lute
    styling. It's a lot like a lute with a 6-string guitar neck. The thing
    to remember is that this instrument is made for Backpacking, not just
    camping. It wouldn't be too practical to carry a Dreadnought guitar
    for miles over rough terrain. Like most back-packing accessories, they 
    had to keep it as small and lightweight as possible. 
    
    Mark

    This weekend I finally got started on something I've been meaning to do
    for quite a while:  learning to play some of my favorite Carla Bley
    tunes on guitar.
    
    I started with "Seven" and "King Korn", using Paul Bley's piano
    renditions to learn them from.  He plays these in a sparse enough 
    manner that it isn't that hard to play them pretty close to exactly 
    the same way on guitar.
    
    There are things I hadn't noticed about these tunes after years of
    hearing them that jumped right out at me when I finally played them
    myself; they took my fingers into some new territory on the guitar, too.
    
    Paul

    
    Are you going to do Ida Lupino?  I just heard a version
    with Peter Bernstein on guitar, nice tune.  
    
    Are you doing this on electric? 
    
    Dave
    

    re: .47
    
    >Are you going to do Ida Lupino?  I just heard a version
    >with Peter Bernstein on guitar, nice tune.
    
    For whatever reason, Ida Lupino hasn't really attracted my attention
    yet (I'd like to check out Peter's version sometime, though).  It's
    a toss-up whether I tackle "Ictus", "Syndrome" or "And Now The Queen"
    next.  I didn't think it was possible to have any more respect for
    Carla's writing than I already did before starting this process, but
    I was wrong.
    
    >Are you doing this on electric?
    
    Yes...but now that you mention it, it might be interesting to see
    what the effect is on acoustic, too.  One of these days, maybe I'll
    get an acoustic that inclines me to play it more than my current
    one does.
    
    Paul