Conference napalm::guitar

    A dude I play with at church has an itty-bitty Trace Elliot 
    acoustic amp - it's WAY cool!!  (Neat colors too).
    
    jc 

   FWIW, Marshall now has an offering in this area:  The "Acoustic Soloist"
   is a stereo amp with 40w per side.  It has both XLR and 1/4" inputs, and
   is designed to amplify both guitar and vocals.  I don't have the price.

   -- Sam

    	
    Sam, according to Musician's Friend, it lists for $1,099 and their
    price is $759.88.  3 channels - mic, magnetic/aux, and transducer.
    	
    Tom
    

   Re: .-1

   Figures.  (Given it's a Marshall and all...)

   -- Sam (very happy with his new $400 Fender...)

    RE: .1 and the itty-bitty Trace Elliot
    
    I also tried out one of the larger Trace Elliot offerings.  It's a
    real nice package, but I thought the Crate and the Duncan TARA both
    delivered a more "acoustic" sound.  The Trace Elliot seemed to deliver
    more of an "electric-acoustic" sound to me.  I also felt that both of
    the above handled the lower range of a nylon string guitar better.
    Its not that the Trace Elliot sounded bad, I just felt the others
    provided a more natural sound.  Your milage may very.
    
    Guild has a few different offerings, but I haven't heard much good
    about them. Roland also recently introduced an acoustic amp, but
    I don't know much about it.
    
    A company called Centaur has a line of acoustic amps that seemed to
    be aimed at the lower-end of the market.  Acoustic Guitar reviewed
    one of these quite favorably in its comparison of several acoustic
    amps, particulary in terms of price/performance. 
    
    RE: Marshall Acoustic Soloist (or whatever its called)
    I haven't seen the Marshall anywhere but catalogs.  It has a pair of
    "specially designed" Celestron speakers in it, along with a tweeter.
    It may very well be a quality amp, but I must admit that Marshall
    and Celestron are not the first two names that leap to mind when
    thinking of a pure acoustic guitar sound.
    
    Jim

    The latest Carvin catalog arrived the other day, and now Carvin
    is offering a pair of amps for acoustic/electric guitar and
    bass.  One has a 10" 2 way speaker system, and the other
    has a 12".  Both have 3 channels: 1 for instrument (with optional
    piezo preamp), 1 for a microphone (XLR), and an aux channel.
    The instrument channel appears to have a notch filter.  At $349
    and $369, these appear to be quite good values, even by Carvin's
    standards.
    
    After a few months with my Crate acoustic amp, I'm reasonably
    satisfied, but less than thrilled.  My biggest complaint is
    noise -- even with nothing plugged in, it generates more hum
    than I'd like.  I do like the nice compact packaging, though.
    
    Jim

    The discussion in another note has reminded me that I've been
    meaning to discuss preamps for acoustic guitar. The preamps 
    that I am familiar with include the following:
    
    Fishman - The pioneer in the acoustic pickup market. Fishman
    offers a wide range of preamps ranging from units that may be
    installed inside a guitar to units that mount to mic stands,
    to rack-mounts. 
    
    Pendulum - Offers a wide variety of rack-mount preamps ranging
    from bare-bones to very elaborate. Pendulum preamps include
    volume/tone controls that are located on the jack that plugs
    into the end-pin jack. 
    
    Sunrise - Sunrise is another major player in the acoustic
    guitar pickup market. Many of their pickups include built-in
    FET preamps. They also offer preamps in stomp-boxes, as well
    as rack-mount units. Their top-of-the-line acoustic preamp 
    features *All tube* circuitry.
    
    Demeter - This eceteric company offers hand-built vacuum tube
    based products, many of which are custom-built to the customers 
    specs. Their products include electric guitar preamps, guitar 
    amps, acoustic preamps, and power amps. One of my fav players
    uses Demeter amps extensively. Anyone care to guess the players
    name? 
    
    Trace Elliot - Known for the best Bass amps on the market, and
    in recent years, their acoustic guitar combos are all the rage
    among acoustic players. I believe they also make preamps as well.
    
    I wish I had more detailed info on the various models, but that's
    where you guys come in :^).  I'm not known for playing one 
    instrument exclusively (a major understatement!). Ultamately,
    I'd like one preamp that I could use for several differant
    guitars (6 & 12 string) as well as Dobro, and perhaps even
    a Mandolin or 3. Buying separate preamps and building them
    into a dozen or so differant instruments would be costly,
    as well as being impractical. I'd prefer to just install
    pickups/endpins in my instruments and use one central preamp.
    I also believe that I would rather invest in one great preamp
    than a bunch of so-so units that would be built-in. I also 
    like tubes, even though this would severely limit my choices, 
    I have a feeling this might be the best way to go. The only 
    all-tube units I'm familiar with are the Sunrise and Demeter 
    units mentioned above. 
    
    Anyone have any interest in these beasts?
    
    Mark

    I've been looking at the Crate 125D mentioned in the base note and I'm
    wondering if Jim (or anyone else) has any more up-to-date impressions
    of this amp?
    
    I'm playing in a country band and have been trying to get a decent
    acoustic sound for the stage.  I'm currently running the output of the
    piezo bridge transducer through a passive DI box to our board.  This is
    ok but it presents some problems; I don't have as many EQ options
    through the board, and I have to run some signal through the stage
    vocal monitors if I want any monitoring of my own guitar.
    
    I've played the Crate 125D and I like it, but it didn't blow my doors
    off either (I dunno, maybe I was expecting it to make my Washburn sound
    like a Taylor?).  I'd like to hear from anyone who's using this or any
    other acoustic guitar amp, particularly if you're using it onstage.
    
    	Rick
    

    
    re: Rick
    
    Gee, I got it out last night for the first time in a while.
    
    I don't gig regularly, so it doesn't get much use.   However,
    I have been pleased with it when I have used it.  My opinions are
    basically unchanged: a good value, good sound, but more hiss than I'd
    like.
    
    A couple comments.  Although the Crate has a piezo setting on its
    guitar channel, I don't believe it is of sufficiently high impedance
    for most piezo pickups.  Better than going direct to a normal Hi-Z
    input, but still somewhat mismatched.  I remember one of the reviews of
    the amp (probably Acoustic Guitar) recommending that you go active.
    If your washburn doesn't have a pre-amp, you may want to try an
    outboard preamp before the 125.
    
    The Crate offers good fidelity and good performance for its relatively
    modest cost (compared to the Seymore Duncan Tara, the various Trace
    Elliot offerings, Fishman's system, and the other higher end stuff). 
    
    For use in a band situation, you could take the direct out from the
    Crate (it has both a Hi-Z and a Low-Z (XLR) output) and plug it into
    the board.  You could then use the Crate to control your EQ be your
    on-stage monitor.
     
    BTW, Carvin has an entry in this market that looks like a real good buy.
    
    Jim

re: .9
     
>    BTW, Carvin has an entry in this market that looks like a real good buy.
    
The Carvin does indeed look interesting.  Has anyone tried it or know
someone who has?

-Hal

    Some might laugh, but I get a pretty decent clean sound through my
    Marshall rig with the Taylor.
    
    It'll do until I can afford a Trace Elliot.  They have a new acoustic
    amp with 4 speakers in it that makes any acoustic sound awesome.  I
    borrowed one from a friend and he almost didn't get it back ;-)
    
    Mike

    re: -.1
    
    I'm not laughing.  The rhythm player in my band gets quite a nice
    acoustic sound from his Gibson acoustic (unsure what kind of pickup,
    but it's passive) into a Korg A4 for a little eq, and straight into 
    an old US-made Vox something-or-other tube amp which he bought for 
    $200!

    Actually, I've never really cared for the Trace Elliot acoustic amp
    sound...   It's just doesn't sound very "acoustic" to me.  It's great if
    you want the Adrian Legg processed acoustic sound, though.
    
    Jim

   Have you considered just getting an EQ box so you have some "local" and
   more flexible EQ control than what the board offers?  Place it near you
   and have the feed from it go to the board.

   Depending on the flexibility of the board you may be able to get just
   your guitar signal (no vocals) back to your own monitor, which may be a
   good investment in this case, too.

   Just a suggestion,

   -- Sam

re: last suggestion...

definetly *the* most effective way of amplifing
an acoustic in a life situation!

But, ya do need a pa that can handle it..

    Actually, I've used Fender tube amps to amplify acoustic guitars for
    years and it works fine. I used to amplify my Guild acoustic guitar
    with a soundhole pickup into a Twin reverb. I played dozens of lounge 
    gigs with this setup and even plugged the vocal mic into the Twin as 
    well. I would sing through the reverb channel and play guitar through 
    the normal channel. At the time all I had was the silver-faced twin
    with master volume. The master volume was actually handy in that
    application because once you balanced the guitar and vocal mic 
    you could turn up or down and still be balanced. This is what
    2-channel amplifiers and master volume was designed for in the
    first place. The acoustic gigs I played were in a very small lounge.
    The sound the audience heard was a mixture of the natural sound of
    the guitar and my voice mixed with the sound from the amp. This
    gave a nice ambient affect. 
    
    Mark