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Conference napalm::guitar

Title:GUITARnotes - Where Every Note has Emotion
Notice:Discussion of the finer stringed instruments
Moderator:KDX200::COOPER
Created:Thu Aug 14 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:3280
Total number of notes:61432

2944.0. "Time, meter, fun..." by HOTLNE::LUCHT () Fri Jun 24 1994 11:02

    
    
   One of my favorite things to do is to mess around with time
   and meter.  You know, getting several things going on at once.
   It's fun to watch an audiance used to clapping on the usual
   beats, get all screwed up when things are the smallest bit
   unusual.  The following is a little thing that I like to pull
   off once in a while for the hell of it:           
    
    
              
    
   |-- Straight 16ths in a 4/4 meter --|
   |                                   |
   x x x x   x x x x   x x x x   x x x x  
    
   ^   ^       ^   ^       ^     ^    (^)
   |   |       |   |       |     |     |
   :---------: :---------: :---------: etc...
     5 note      5 note      5 note
     group       group       group
    
    
   Tap with left hand the straight 16ths.  Tap the accents
   with the right hand to hear the effect.
    
   Put accents on "1" and "3" of each 5 note grouping.
   By playing the same group of 16 notes in the 4/4
   meter as they would normally flow back into themselves
   coupled with the accents in the five note groups, an
   interesting pattern develops.  By playing the group
   of 16 notes over again, the accents are going to fall
   on different notes.  This is polyrhythm at it's absolute
   simplest.        
    
    
       Any others with a penchant for this type of stuff?
    
    
   Kev --
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name		DateLines
2944.1Where's One?GAVEL::DAGGTue Jun 28 1994 13:2619
                                                       
    Check out the Bill Evans trio (various incarnations). 
    They got pretty heavy into accenting different 
    beats to give the effect of different meters.    
    
    Also maybe what Philly Joe Jones (and others)
    did on the last 8 of rhythm changes sometimes is 
    like what you're talking about.  He would 
    accent 4 of the first bar, and then 3 of the second
    bar, then 2 of the third bar, and so on, to sound like
    he's in 3 for awhile.  Very swinging IMHO.  To 
    me this kind of thing is like a rhythmic
    disonance, and when the time gets straight again,
    its like a resolution.   
    
    Also Miles' groups with Tony Williams got
    into some deep time superimpositions. 
    
    Dave - who thinks he's in the JAZZ notes conference
2944.2A simple change of accent...HOTLNE::LUCHTWed Jun 29 1994 09:3132
         
         Here's an absolutely fried lick I use with the 5 note
    accented groupings over a 4/4 pulse:
    
    
       p.o.                   sl.
    -17-13-12------------11-14-17-14---------(17)-------------
    ---------13--------13-----------15-----16-----------------
    -----------14-11-14---------------14-17-------------------
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    
    
         As for tonality, this one is out there.  Let's see, you
    got an arpeggiated minor triad, diminished triad, and a big
    fat major triad all tied together with a few minor intervals.
    This is a bizarro riff that me and a percussion buddy of mine
    mess around with once in a while.  Playing this at a semi-hyper
    tempo is somewhat confusing to the ear.  By the time your 
    senses realize the three triads and their assigned tonality, 
    the notes repeat, placing the strong 1 & 3 accents on different
    degrees of the triads (root, 3rd, 5th) within the 5 note groups
    over the set 4/4 meter.  
         In the right setting with some good percussion behind it,
    this lick gives the listener a slightly hypnotic feel as well as
    a headache if listened to more than a couple times over!
    
    
    Enjoy,
    Kev (who's above lick is for fun, not for the serious minded)
2944.311/16, 9/8, ...HOTLNE::LUCHTTriple Bock is here!Tue Oct 04 1994 06:058
    
    Just took a peek at the latest issue of Guitar Player.
    They've got a pretty good article on meter variances
    that's worth checking out...
    
    Kev --
2944.4here...LUDWIG::LUCHTIs it a passion or just a profession?Fri Aug 30 1996 19:3318
    With all the chat in regards to bent time signatures in an adjacent
    conference, check out this riff in 7/8 which is the main theme to 
    my warped orignal entitled "Plausible Impossible" (rhy=straight 8ths):
    
    --------7--------------------|-----------------------12---------
    --------7---------9----------|-----------------------12---------
    ------------------9----------|----------sl------------\-harm----
 |: ---------------------11------|---------11--9--------------------  :|
    -----------9--11--------11---|------9---------9--11-------------
    ----7-------sl---------------|---7-----------(0)----------------
    
    
    By playing this at a PRESTO tempo, the riff takes on some
    characteristics of slap bass...which is what I was shooting for 
    here.  Fire up a high gain tone, and feel free to mute the 
    arpeggios.  Enjoy. 
    
    Kev --
2944.5odd time/drum machinesGAVEL::DAGGTue Sep 03 1996 14:417
    Interesting you should mention odd time signatures.  I found
    that something I was doing came out to 13 beats per phrase, 
    and I was also recently considering getting a drum 
    machine, like a Boss DR660.  Would that kind of machine
    allow me to create an odd meter drum line? 
    
    Dave