Conference napalm::guitar

    >I'm sure that some people in here might have heard of Carol Kaye
    >before, but there are probably a lot of people who have also. 
    
    You can say that again again.
    
    8^)  8^)
    
    Carol Kaye was a jazz guitarist before she took up electric bass and
    even played some gigs in an early version of the Mothers of Invention
    on 12-string guitar!!
    
    Bassists have known her for years for her excellent bass method books
    that she's been publishing since about 1969, called "Carol Kaye Bass
    Lines".  Volume 4 of that set has full transcriptions of her parts for
    many of the hits mentioned above.  She also has a highly rated video
    out on sight reading for bassists.
    
    Longtime GP readers may remember her column that ran in the early 70s
    (she preceded Herb Mickman who preceded Alex Slapandpopski)
    
    She's now retired from the studio scene and concentrates solely on her
    educational publications.
    
    						Brian

    >I'm sure that some people in here might have heard of Carol Kaye
    >before, but there are probably a lot of people who have also.
    
    >>    You can say that again again.
    
        8^)  8^)
    
    whatwhatwhatwhatwhatwhatwhatwhatwhatwhatwhatwhatwhatwhatwhatwhathatwhat?  
                  

    yeah, if you were studying electric bass in the 70's, Carol literally
    wrote the book.  She had one very profound impact in my playing - she
    was a strong advocate of using a pick with electric bass (and at a time
    when most were fingerstyle players) and so that's how I started and
    what I mostly use to this day.
    
    Carol had a jazz group, Spider's Web, that released several records in
    the 70's.  Recently there's been a lot of controversy around her claim
    to have played on several sessions that were previously attributed to James
    Jamerson, the great Motown session bassist.  The result has been a lot
    of ugly press, which is unfortunate.  She's a great player and teacher,
    certainly a major influence in the way electric bass has evolved.
    
    /rick

    I have an old book entitled "The Guitar Player Book" which was
    published by Guitar Player magazine in 1978. Carol Kaye is 
    among the monster players discussed in the book. They list the
    following credits: 
    
    	Good Vibrations				Witchita Lineman
    	Feelin Allright				Little Green Apples
    	These boots are made for walkin'        Bill Cosby's "Hicky Burr"
    	
    	Film Scores:
    
    	Airport					Winning
    	LeMans					Candy
    	Butch Cassidy				Cactus Flower
    	Heat Of the Night			Sweet Charity
    	
    	TV themes:
    
    	Room 222				Bill Cosby
    	Dan August				Ironsides
    	Mission Impossible			Mannix
    	McCloud					Bonanza
    	Cannon					Cades' County
    	Bob Hope				Lena Horne
    	Several Academy Award Specials
    	etc.
    
    	Other record credits:
    
    	Ray Charles				Quincy Jones
    	Frank Sinatra		  		Count Basie
    	Burt Bacharach				Dean Martin
    	Lou Rawles				Mel Tourme
    	Andy Williams				Herb Alpert
    	Supremes				Doris Day
    	Martha reeves				Stevie Wonder
    	Johnny Mathis				Mama Cass
    	Patti Page				Nancy Wilson
    	
    	A virtual who's who of the '70s commercial scene. She was 38
    years old when the book was published ('78), I guess that makes her
    aout 51 years old. She's must be the least famous superstar in music
    history. 
     	
     	She is known for playing Fender Precision basses. Definately My 
    kind of woman !!
    
    	Mark

    
    A bass player friend of mine here at the CSC had been taking
    lessons from her for some time; she was up Denver way somewhere.
    He'd gotten me her phone number and I was considering taking
    some lessons from her myself....until he told me that she is
    moving back to California :-(. Apparently she's still got
    studio work possibilities and wants to get back in the biz.
    I consider that a real opportunity missed....back to fumblin'
    the blues on my own.
    
    DAP
    

    
    Ms Kaye....definitely one of the unsung greats of rock music. I knew
    she had been using Fenders for the longest time, but
    I thought I saw a picture of her using what looked like a Surene 5-string 
    bass recently. 
    
    She was also one of the prominent players you heard for a lot of TV 
    soundtracks over the last 25 years. Between her and Tommy Tedesco, I 
    wonder who's played on more session dates ?
    
    The controversy about her playing instead of Jamieson on some Motown
    dates is interesting. What were the tunes she claims to have been on ?
     

    re Kaye and Jamereson
    
    the one that comes to mind is the Four Top's "Bernadette"; there
    are others.  Alan probably has more info; I think they talked about
    it in the article he was reading that prompted this note.
    
    /rick

>    the one that comes to mind is the Four Top's "Bernadette"; there
>    are others.  Alan probably has more info; I think they talked about
>    it in the article he was reading that prompted this note.

"I Was Made To Love Her" by Stevie Wonder was the other track in question.
Carol is sure she played on them, but the producers say it was Jamison.
We'll probably never know for sure...

alan

    OK, Alan, Brian, anyone... help me with something I've wondered about
    for a long time: who played bass on Stevie Wonder's "For Once In My
    Life"?  It's one of my favorite bass parts of all time.
    
    Dave

    >OK, Alan, Brian, anyone... help me with something I've wondered about
    >for a long time: who played bass on Stevie Wonder's "For Once In My
    >Life"?  It's one of my favorite bass parts of all time.
    
    It was either Dan Daddieco or James Jamerson.
    
    Seriously, most likely Jamerson.  He did almost 100% of Motown until
    1968, when the amount of work required them to add Bob Babbitt to the
    staff.  Some sides were cut in LA with Carol Kaye.  Apparently some
    tracks were cut *both* in Detroit and LA, which has led to the
    confusion over whether Kaye or Jamerson did certain songs.
    
    That one might be in the Dr. Licks Jamerson book.
    
    						Brian

    Thanks, Brian.  If this is the same Jamerson whose picture and 
    endorsement appear in the Carvin catalog, he looks a little young to
    have been so prolific so long ago, but maybe session players don't have
    those obligatory drug and alcohol problems to age them.  Or maybe soul
    music keeps you young.
    
>    That one might be in the Dr. Licks Jamerson book.
    
    Is this a book he wrote?
    
    Dave

    The Jamerson in the Carvin ads is James Jr.  James Sr. was the Motown
    bass mogul, he died some years back.  He had *plenty* of obligatory
    alcohol problems!!!
    
    The Dr. Licks book is called "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" and is
    a bio of James Sr., has bass-line transcriptions to many Motown hits
    and matching recordings of those lines by famed bassists.  Definitely a
    must-have book for anyone into soul bass playing;  probably a must for
    *any* bassist!  You can get versions with tapes or CDs.  It's about
    $30.  
    
    Dr. Licks is a Philly  based guitarist who was one of the first to hit
    paydirt in the 80s selling tab/tape sets to metalloid wannabes.  Seems
    at heart he's a soul man 8^)
    
    Isn't there a Jamerson note somewhere? The book I know was covered in a
    note on bass method books.  In fact Carol Kaye probably got mentioned
    there, too.
    
    							Brian

    Thanks again.  Hmm... I wonder if bass playing is hereditary?  %^)
    
    Dave

    I checked my copy of "Standing..." last night; "For Once In My Life" is
    indeed a Jamerson bassline.  Pino Palladino does the version of it here.
    I glanced at the transcription, looks like a wicked part!  Good ears
    Dave, I never picked up on the bass in this tune before.  Pino says it's
    his favorite Jamerson performance.
    
    As Brian suggests, "Standing..." is probably a must for *any* bass player;
    Jamerson is like the 'Django' of electric bass (Jaco is the 'Hendrix',
    of course).
    
    So what do you think Carol would say about all this Jamerson talk in her
    note :-)
    
    /rick

    
    If you ask any bassist (who's pretty familiar with music of the last 30
    years) to name 10 classic backing performances on that instrument, the 
    work in either 'For Once in My Life' or 'I Was Made to Love Her' will 
    probably be named pretty often. You listen to these parts and realize
    they are almost perfect for the tunes they support.
    
    I'm listening to them right now at my desk on the headphones. 'For
    Once' sounds like he's reading from a chord chart, and he's just
    working an incredible groove into the tune. The only part that sounds
    like it was written out is underneath the chorus 'someone who needs
    me', since he plays it exactly the same each time. Same on 'Made to
    Love Her, under each 'hey, hey, hey'. The playing under the verses on
    that tune still sends chills down my back, especially that I-V-bV-IV lick
    that whoever is playing on this tune uses. 
    
    On 'Uptight', if this is him again....the bassline touches the tonic once
    for an eighth note every two bars. The rest of the line is just an
    ascending series of notes into which another groove is worked.
    
    You know, you listen to these tunes and you can hear how players like
    Frank Prestia were influenced. 
    
    BTW, although I still play, I don't have much contact with literature
    or magazines anymore. So, the 'Standing in the Shadows of Motown'
    reference that is being mentioned is unknown to me, yet interesting.
    How can I check it out ?
    
    Peter
    
    PS: Perhaps this could be retitled the 'Session Bass' topic ?
       

    
    S'cuse me...that is not a I-V-bV-IV line. It is a IV-I-VII-bVII, I
    think. My ears need retuning.
    
    Peter
    

>    Good ears Dave, I never picked up on the bass in this tune before.
    
    I used to be pretty good at deciphering bass parts off records.  After
    ripping Casady's parts off Jeff Airplane studio albums (mixed by
    "Maurice", not the Wally Heider-recorded live album), Motown is a piece
    of cake.
    
    Of course, you have to be obsessed with bass parts the way I was, too.
    
    Dave

    I used to listen out for bass parts by playing albums at 45rpm,as this
    seemed to make them more prominent by upping the frequency.I found it
    by accident,on Bowie's "Ziggy Stardust" (that's some nice melodic bass
    on the title track,BTW !) It coulda just been the cheezy stereo I used
    back then,of course.
    	One of my other fave bass lines was in "Dance with me" by Orleans.
    
    							       Jim.
    

>    One of my other fave bass lines was in "Dance with me" by Orleans.
    
    Me too.  I was surprised to read the jacket and discover that what was
    obviously a P-bass was in reality a synthesizer.  Sigh.  It's still a
    good bass part, though...
    
    Dave

    I used to use the "speed it up" trick also when trying to dig out
    bass lines... T'was hell on the vinyl, and I'd all but forgotten about
    it in the age of CD's...
    
    Edd

    >I used to use the "speed it up" trick also when trying to dig out bass
    >lines... T'was hell on the vinyl, and I'd all but forgotten about it in
    >the age of CD's...
    
    Hope you haven't forgotten that your rusty-and-crusty-but-trusty old
    Ensoniq Mirage sampler will do that to with no damage to vinyl nor
    wear and tear on your CD transport.
    
    It will also play them slower as well as faster and at any speed
    variation that makes the part your listening to come out.   And if
    that's good enough, you can use digital filtering (possibly not on the
    Mirage but on other samplers) to bring the part to the front of the
    mix.
    
    I'll confess that I use my sampler as much for copping licks as any
    other function.
    
    	db

    (rathole alert)
    
    With a walloping 8 seconds of sample time (less if I want quality above
    that of Ma Bell), La Mirage really doesn't cut it for learning bass
    lines. I *do* whoever often use it for digging out wierd chords by
    setting a couple loop points and "sustaining" the chord...
    
    Edd

    I never do much more than 8 seconds at a time with my sampler, but I
    just use it to get a particular loop.  I never have needed more than
    8 seconds.  I'm not sure I've ever needed more than 4.
    
    It's not until you do some sampling that you realize just how long
    4 seconds is.  ;-)

    Yeah, but remember the mighty Mirage's 8 seconds is spread out over
    all the zones! And there's always at least 2! At 50Khz rate I get
    a fantastic stick click sample, except the decay is truncated...;^)
    
    ...and besides, when I use the "hi-speed" method I play the song too
    quickly. (Ask Tom DesRochers. I turned "Bodisattva" into a 30 second
    commercial jingle...)
    
    :^)
    
    Edd