Conference napalm::guitar

    so Brian, what's the performance diff in tone, volume, etc. with the
    hybrid setups?  Is a tube pre/tranny power equal to an all tube combo
    in tone, volume, reliability?  Would I notice the diff?
    
    Consumer Produx

     And for you Bass fans ...
    
    The Fender Performance Bass amp combo got rave reviews 
    from BASS PLAYER magazine as one the best all-round 
    bass combo's.
    
    /Billy_K
    

>The deal here is a tube (12AX7) premap and solid state power.  
    
Anyone remember Legend amps?

    Re: .1
    
    Whether to have the tubes in the preamp or power amp is a religious
    decision for the user.
    
    For the manufacturer, it's simple: in a high powered amp, it's cheaper
    to omit the power tubes because you can also jettison the big-ass power
    supply and output transformer.  It's become the rage in *bass* amps,
    where players want real high power and getting 400 watts and up from
    tubes is cost-prohibitive.  Marshall went this route with the
    Valvestate line in order to get an amp that's cheaper than one with all
    tubes but still has *some* tubes.
    
    The thing with Fender is they have now hedged their bets, offering all
    four types of amp technology, so as to guarantee that no matter what
    the player's taste is, they have an amp to match it.  The downside is
    now you have to go try them all and see which ones you like.
    
    							Brian

    "All 4 types..." ?? 
    
    What about Tube vs. solid state rectifiers (Mesa Dual Rectifier [user
    selectable], & maybe Peavey 5150). Or all tube w/solid state rectifier for 
    just the preamp (Seymour Duncan).
    
    Somewhere in the '60's, Fender switched from tube to solid state
    rectifiers for the Bassman, Bandmaster, Showman & Twin, but kept the
    rest tubes.
    
    Peavey produced some relatively trashy sounding "Classic" series stuff
    in the lats '70's that was tranny pre/tube power (worst of both worlds
    IMHO ... Yeah, I used to play bass.) 
    
    There's a "rack puke" thing by ADA or MOS-Valve or whatever that uses
    12AX7's driving MOS FET's. They claim 200 watts in one rack space for
    about 8 pounds. I've never heard it. 
    
    Even Mesa (Tuber 'R' Us) uses trannies in their EQ, so if you switch in
    the EQ, guess what ... your Boogie's no longer all tube ! (That oughta
    put pig's blood on some idols !)
    
    Paul 

    RE -1: corrections to typo's
    
    ...late '70's...
    ..."Tubes 'R' Us"...
    PG
    

>    "All 4 types..." ?? 
    
    1) tube pre / tube power
    2) tube pre / tran power
    3) tran pre / tube power
    4) tran pre / tran power

    Where do these other (bastards) fit in ?
    - Both or either type of rectifier
    - All tube w/solid state EQ
    - Tube power w/solid state regulated power supply
    
    I knoe the basic permutations, I just don't want people to get the
    impression that Fender "does it all".
    
    Paul

    Re: .8
    
    Most people don't care about the little permutations.  It's only
    recently that amp manufacturers have started pushing some of the more
    "black magic" aspects of the design as features.  Sure, a good ear can
    detect the difference between a tube and solid state rectifier, but
    most people don't mind buying an "all tube" amp that has no rectifier
    tube.  
    
    The point I was making is that Fender has positioned themselves
    cleverly to be able to offer the four *main* permutations at various
    price points so they can cover the entire market.  Remember the early
    70s when Fender had its lunch eaten because they had no high power bass
    amps or big lead stacks like the competition?  I think they want to be
    sure that never happens again. 
    
    When a Mesa or Kendrick touts their design as superior, they mean it. 
    When a Peavey or Fender hypes one type of amp over another, it's just
    marketing BS.  If Peavey's "Supersat" really sounded like tubes, why
    would they have to sell tube amps?  
    
    							Brian

    Peavey has to sell *everything* ;-)
    Paul

    PEAVEY RULES THE UNIVERSE!!! THEY ARE THE ULTIMATE! NOTHING EVEN COMES
    CLOSE!

    RE -1:
    I thought this was a note about amplifiers, not boat anchors ;-)
    
    Paul

    Perhaps you missed the tongue in cheek...

    I *used* to have a whole stack of Peaveys.........
    
    'till the day I accidentally dropped my Fender Twin on them...
    
    ;-)
    
    Paul

    ACTUALLY, THE CARVIN FET AMPS RULE CAUSE CRAIG ANDERTON SAYS THEY DO.
    
    :-0
    
    name witheld by request

   Picked one of these up on Friday (Performer 1000, that is).  What a great
   amp!  (Yes, Coop, this is why my Marshall is for sale.  And boy, is Greg
   confused...  :-)))  100w into a 1x12, tube preamp, solid state (MOSFET?
   JFET?  they're TL072 amps, I believe)  power amp.  This thing is _loud_.  I
   can barely crank it about 1� to 2 without making ears bleed.  3 stage input,
   with clean and two high gain channels.  The only downside I've seen so far
   is no overall master volume for all channels.  Even the effects loop has an
   adjustable level.

   It does everything from sparkly clean to such a nasty distortion it'll part
   your hair.  I'm really psyched.  Weighs a lot less than the Marshall, too,
   and I don't have to lug a speaker cab (or two) around with me anymore.

   Picked it up at Prosound's annual "blowout" sale (thanks for the tip, DAP!) 
   for almost 40% off list, so I'm happy with the price, too.  Now, somebody
   buy my Marshall (see note 2.164 in here) so I can clear some space in my
   music room.

   -- Sam

    Is there sufficient control over relative volumes that you can balance
    your clean and dirty sounds however you like?
    
    Sounds like Fenders answer to the Tubeworks combos; ever tried one of
    these?  If so, any resemblance?
    
    /rick

re:      <<< Note 2768.17 by RICKS::CALCAGNI "how could it be otherwise?" >>>

>    Is there sufficient control over relative volumes that you can balance
>    your clean and dirty sounds however you like?
    
   Yep.  Despite having the "3 stage input" you basically have two channels,
   clean and two voices on the hi gain side ("yellow" and "red").  Yellow
   tends to be a little more midrange-y than red, and red is the super hot
   "squealing lead" channel.  You have gain controls for both yellow and red,
   then a master volume for that high gain channel.  Red has about an 8db boost
   to the overall volume, but you can adjust it with the gain knob.  The clean
   channel has its own seperate volume.  You also get a mid boost/cut switch on
   the clean side, and something called "body" on the hi gain side - sort of
   like a parametric EQ with a fixed tonal center.

>    Sounds like Fenders answer to the Tubeworks combos; ever tried one of
>    these?  If so, any resemblance?
    
   Nope, never tried one, so can't compare.

   -- Sam

    So, does it sound good?  Loud is find so long as it's good loud, bad
    loud is horrifying.  :)

    Seriously, I assume you like the sound or you wouldn't have bought it.
    Can you characterize the sounds (especially the distortion sounds)? 
    What I'd be interested in is whether you hear all the components of a
    complicated chord and whether it "cleans up" some as you back off the
    volume on your guitar without the tone changing dramatically (I know
    part of this depends on the volume/tone circuitry in the guitar).  Also
    what's buzz ratio in the distortion?  (i.e. distorted '70s Randall amp
    has a buzz ratio of nearly 100%).  Only partially :)...
    
    steve 

   Hi Steve,

   Well, I'm not great at characterizing sounds, as if something sounds "good"
   to me I tend to lose objectivity.  :-)  I can't say this thing sounds like
   a Boogie, but it's got a very smooth, creamy distortion characteristic that
   I like quite a bit.  Gets a good "Santana" sound.  The clean channel is
   *classic* "Fender Clean", even though the clean channel does not go through
   the tube preamp (as far as I can gather from the literature).  I'm using it
   with an unmodified American Standard Strat (gold Lace Sensors), and an
   electric-acoustic, and find it does everything I was looking for in a compact
   combo.  As far as the distorted chord voicing, it's really good at tracking
   the individual notes without breaking up.  Also, with the 3 stage preamp,
   you can get a real good "crunch" without going to all-out death-metal thrash
   (sorry, I'm starting to sound like a Musician's Friend writeup...  :-))

   Actually, if you'd like to hear/try it I'd be glad to bring it in to work, or
   get together afterwards someplace.  (For others out there, Steve sits about
   3 offices away from me.)

   -- Sam

    re Performer 1000
    	I have a Fender stage 112 (the all solid state version) and love
    it.	When I was looking for an amp at the time I played a Performer
     which is like the stage 112's big brother (except I think it has a
    12AX7).  After about 30 mins playing the Preamp started to die.
    	It's sound started to alter, bit like a yamaha power amp when
    you run them too hard too long.
    	Dont know if it is indicative of all, but something you should 
    maybe look at, give yours a decent hammer over say 30 mins and see.
    
    	P.K.