Conference napalm::guitar

    Good luck in your playing, Spratty, but I think you'll have to loose
    the /HMBP attitude in this conf...it's a LOT different from H_M!
    
    Also, invest in a small amp.  Your stereo will thank you.  You can pick
    up a Gorilla for around $80 or a small Marshall for $100-150...it
    will sound better to you, and will save your JBL's.
    
    Helpful hints from 
    Buck

    Yeah, and if your on a budget (who ain't), getcha a little 
    Marshall MS2.  Thing will clip on your belt and they sound
    just like their bigger brothers.
    
    jc (Who plays thru his all the time)

    I added a topic title for ya, BTW.
    
    jc

	I agree with Buck on the Gorilla.  That little amp will rip your
	tatas off.  The little Crate is also rowdy.  I believe you could 
	pick either one up new for under or about $100.

    C'mon Jeff, the MS2 sounds nothing like it's big brother.  But then
    again, what do you want for $35 anyway?
    
    Spratty, depending on the sound you want there are several options on
    practice amps under about $200.  My first one was a Peavey, they're
    inexpensive, reliable, and plentiful in the used market.  I didn't like
    the sound much after my playing got better.  Seems like everyone serves
    time with a Peavey sometime in their playing career, it's not such a
    bad thing.
    
    I really like the Marshall Lead 12 amps (Model 5005 for the 1x10 combo,
    or 3005 for the Microstack, same amp different packages).  You can get
    a 5005 for about $125 or so used and I think they sound great.
    
    I had a Crate amp for a long time that sounded good and had channel
    switching and a ripping distortion sound.  My only problem with the
    lower end Crate amps is that they put cheap speakers in them and they
    don't sound that great.  If you get one that has a Celestion speaker
    it'll sound MUCH better.
    
    If you're on a bad budget, as Buck and Pat said, look for a Gorilla. 
    Not a bad sound and very inexpensive.  I prefer it over the Crate and
    Peavey models in the same price range.
    
    Greg
              

Yeah, you're probably right Greg...

Okay, the MS2 doesn't sound like it's big brothers.  To me, it sounds like
a really scaled down version of an old plexi...   Even down to where you 
gotta crank it to get cool overdrive.  Scaled in SIZE and TONE.  I mean
it obviously doesn't have a 4x12 attached.... But for $35 it'd beat smoking
your JBL house speakers...

jc

>    the /HMBP attitude in this conf...it's a LOT different from H_M!

    
    	OK guys, I'm back.
    	Thanks for all of the advice so far, but if you've got more,
    	I'm still listenin'.  My budget or SANTA's budget will probably
    	limit me (or him) to $150 and under.  Will go for either new or
    	used equipment depending on recommendations.  My guitar is a 
    	Kramer Focus 3000D w/ 1 humbucker and 2 single coil PUs that I
    	bought used.  What exactly will playing thru my stereo do to my
    	JBLs?  I heard that it shouldn't affect them, but you all seem to 
    	imply that it will.
    
    
    	Spratty (notice what's missin'?)
    

I'm no expert, but I trashed my Advents playing guitar thru 'em years ago.
They just can't take the excursion that a guitar can do...

I'd go with a PV and Pedal or something...

Or, you could by that Marshall 1x12" combo I just posted.  :)

jc

    
    My advice for a awsome set up to any beginer is what I use in my room.
    I got fed up to the back teeth of lugging a marshall 4x12, Amp head and
    an effects rack up and down my stairs everytime I wanted to play, and
    then lug it back down for rehearsals, so I got myself a Ross 12watt
    practise amp (with tube-blaster overdrive) and I bought a Boss
    Parametric Eq pedal. The sound is amazing! Really crunchy, really
    ballzy but with a surprising amount of clarity.
    
    Its also rather versatile cos you can switch off the eq pedal, or
    switch off the overdrive and get a wide variety of tones from screaming
    metal to subtle Jazz.
    
    -Tony

    re-1
    
    I had one of those Ross amps for a while and it was ok.A lot of amp for
    a little money.I got bored with it and bought a Marshall 4x12  8)Only
    kidding I bought a 5425 Marshall which weighs a few lbs!!
    
    
    
                                                 Staynz

    
    The amp on its own is naff, but you bang it through a Boss parametric EQ 
    pedal and it kicks tush!

    If you think that was crap,you should've heard the amp was playing
    through before.I was given this amp by a friend and was sold as soon as
    possible.It did have one good point,if you wanted an guitar effect
    that sounded like chips frying,then this was the amp for you.The Ross
    was 100 times better............until I got hold of my Marshall!
    
    
    
    

I've got a Sunn Mustang ST15? (Made in Taiwan) 15w practice combo, which has
served me well.

It's capable of well over-the-top distortion, and the combo cost me less than I
would have had to pay for a distortion pedal (i.e. �54 sterling). It also
has a headphone socket.

I don't use the headphone capability (for me, the solid-state distortion
sounds too "sizzly" when you put it under a microscope). It really screams
through the integral speaker, though.

It appears to be the same unit as the Fender Squier 15 watter, just has a
different badge and a smaller pricetag.
*DC

    The Kitty Hawk combos are *GREAT* practice amps ;-)

    Two pearls of wisdom for you, grasshopper       :7)
    
    1.  Just because Clapton can play HIS guitar through YOUR stereo
    doesn't mean YOU should!
    
    2.  If you are trying to get away cheap on your first amp, don't.  
    Say a "starter" amp costs $125, and the next level up would be $225...
    in reality, 6 months from now, you are $125 further away from getting a
    better amp, and you put your starter amp on the market and get zippo
    for it.  The only way you'll lose by starting higher is if you quit
    playing (but the resale might even be better on the better amp anyway),
    and having better gear might help you stay with it:
    					GTS rationalization #454 :7) 
    
    Save your dough, don't buy any interim crap like a headphone amp, and
    buy one step higher up than you 'need' so you avoid having to trade up
    right away.
    
    The other rational thing is to go to a pawn shop or want ads and buy
    the cheapest used starter amp so the OTHER guy can take the loss on the
    starter and not you... 
    \Gary

    
    I agree with all but the headphone amp bit:  these are neat little
    boxes to have.  They generally incorporate some effects, they'll let
    you mix in a walkman, and you can practise at any hour.  Personally, I
    was glad to have one of these when starting so that I could make my
    mistakes in relative privacy.  Plus, listening through headphones
    lets you hear everything you're doing.
    
    Definitely buy your amps used, and buy the best you can afford.
    

    
    	It all sounds like good advice to me.  Fortunately I
    	still have a bit of time before I'll actually be purchasing
    	an amp, so keep the advice flowin'.  I think I may have solved
    	the problem of playin; thru my JBLs for now.  I'm usin' an 
    	old pair of headphones off of my reciever.  Will this save 
    	my system from suffering any damage?  In other words, is it
    	non-damaging to use just my reciever's amp and not my speakers?
    	Thanks again......
    
    
    Spratty

    .18 is right, too.  (The only reason I brought up about headphone amps
    is that it's another toy to spend money on that gets you further away
    from getting a decent small amp.)
    
    I've not owned a headphone amp.  Maybe another strategy is to start out
    with one and bypass a starter amp, but you'll miss hearing yourself out
    LOUD, and that's a big part of learning to fly that you don't want to
    miss.
    
    I would suggest buying a used cheap starter amp used anywhere, should
    you go that route, because it's a low risk proposition at $50 if it
    plays at all.  
    But if you go up into the over-$200 class, you may want to buy new, or
    at least buy used from a new equipment dealer rather than a pawn shop
    or want ads, because you will get some valuable hand-holding and
    possibly a short warranty or no-loss trade-in period.
    \Gary 

    re:  .19   stereo w/headphones
    
    I'll let the engineers handle that one, but when I used to play
    acoustic, and before I bought an amp, the man in the shop wanted to
    sell me an acoustic pickup and told me to play thru my stereo until I
    had an amp.  I balked at the idea, but I didn't have a good technical
    reason.  
    
    Anyway, I had an old 40w stereo receiver.  I used it only a few times
    and it blew out.  The amp, not the spxr.  I don't know if it was age or
    mistreatment, but I do NOT recommend playing guitar thru a stereo
    amp/rcvr.  
    What say ye, Engineers?
    \Gary

    
    Yikes!!!  I don't wanna hurt my 100 watter.
    So whadda ya say all you EEs???????
    

    How is the output from your electric guitar getting into the
    stereo? Are you using your tape deck on record? A direct 1/4" input
    jack is not usually standard on most stereo amps.
    
    My first piece of advice is to not play through your stereo at all.
    As has been said,.. a small practice amp used can be had for $50 or
    less.
    
    People have fried everything from the amp, to the tape deck, to the
    speakers when playing through their stereo. Its probably the easiest
    way to find the "weak link" in your stereo system,.. not that you're
    interested in finding it at the price of stereo equipmen replacements.
    In general, the tape deck nor the amp are equipped to deal with the 
    impedance and the range of output the elec. guitar produces. You could
    be asking for trouble.
    
    							/Bill_who_fried_a
    							tape_deck_once_like
    							_this
    

    
    But if you're going to play through your stereo, the headphones are a
    good idea.  Normally, the thing that blows when you do this is the
    tweeter - due to amp clipping - it's too easy to outrun the capability
    of your amp, send it into clipping, and start sending smoke signals.
    
    So, it seems like we all agree on something!  Let's put an end to that:
    should he buy Marshall or Fender???   *8')
    

	I'm surprised no one has mentioned a Pignose yet :^}

	Alright, just so everybody knows how I'm running things at this 
	time, here is how things are set up.  I've got a cord with a 
	std. 1/4" plug on one end and an RCA plug on the other.  I think
	everyone knows which end goes where.  I make the connection to
	my reciever through the left channel on my turntable input.. 
	Next, I turn my surround sound selector to "simulated" in order
	to turn the mono input to stereo for output.  From here I either
	play thru my JBL (teensie-weensie LX44s) or thru my headphones.
	So far I haven't turned the volume knob past 2.5 on the 10 scale.
	Since my reciever is puttin' out 100 Watts RMS in each channel,
	I know that I'm driving my speakers with less than 10 Watts of
	RMS power.  Rich, my teacher, didn't seem to think that I'd
	do any damage as long as I keep the power levels low.  Any 
	comments?????


	Spratty

	(Oh, yeah, I almost forgot.  Anyone have the tab to "316" by VH???)

    
    Keeping the power low will probably make everything ok.  But have you
    noticed that your guitar is really bottom heavy?  That's a function of
    the RIAA playback EQ built into your phono pre-amp.  Again, no danger
    here...
    

    You may be happier running your guitar into the TAPE IN jacks, thus
    avoiding the RIAA EQ circuit. 
    
    Edd

    
    Yeah, I did notice that it was a bit "bottom-heavy"
    I'll try usin' the TAPE IN jacks until I eventually
    get an amp.  Thanks.
    

    Sounds like you have a nice amp, what with surround sound and all.
    
    Why not save it for what it was designed for until we get some expert
    advice?
    
    Think about it:  No one would buy --- or sell --- practice amps if all
    beginning guitarists needed were their stereo receivers!
    \Gary

    
    
    Tape input probably won't cut it - they expect a line level input;
    around a volt or so of signal.  A really hot guitar signal might reach
    6 volts on a peak, but most of the time you're not going to hear much
    of your axe.