Conference napalm::guitar

    Sometimes my shoulder bothers me... I just figure it's because I'm a
    little out of shape from practicing in the sitting position a lot...
    
    Now, on the other hand, I sure have gotten several sore necks/shoulders
    from bangin' heads while playing Metallica and Priest...But now I do
    "nice music" so it's no longer a problem.
    
    ;^)

    Yep,
    
    It happened to me when I got my first Les Paul after playing much
    lighter SG's.  The cramp finally disappeared after a few MONTHS.
    I just plain got used to the heavier guitar. Sorry, but I don't know of
    any exercises to relieve it, although a wider strap should help some.
    
    Steve

    Take the Pain!

    Re:-1 I'd rather not!
    
    It's strange 'cause my Strat is much heavier than the Hofner.  I've
    tried different straps...didn't help!  And this is pushing 6 months,
    I thought it was 'cause I was outa 'playing' shape too.
    
    Oh well
    

Pains, cramps, and other discomforts (other than sore fingertips) can turn into
very debilitating classes of illnesses if you let them prolong themselves...so,
my advice is to do something about it.

Put another way, pain is your body's way of telling you that something's wrong.

I don't know where you live or work, but my advice is that you have your
physician refer you to an orthopedic specialist in musicians' illnesses
(things like repetitive motion disease (like carpal tunnel disease) in the
wrist, tendonitis in the elbow).  They will ask you to bring your instrument and
work with you to change posture, attack, or style of motion to help solve
the pain you are experiencing.  All of the physicians (whether MDs or DOs)
who practice thistype of medicine that I've ever heard of are also musicians
(which is how they got started treating these problems) so they'll understand
what you are talking about.

If there are no physicians who deal with musical problems near you or you 
belong to an HMO which doesn't have an affiliate with that specialty, the next 
best thing is to talk to a doctor who specializes in sports medicine.  They 
may not know much about music (mine does, he plays guitar) but still can
analyze your problem effectively.

Even if its nothing to worry about, they can tell you.  And if you are heading
for an injury, they can help prevent it.  And take it seriously...I know of
a fine musician who's been "grounded" from his main instrument for several years
because of some thing very similar.

So, seek professional help.

My 2�

BobW

    That's interesting 'cause the GP I went to yesterday prescribed
    a bunch of muscle relaxers etc. and said that I should contact
    a Physical Therapy group.  I was expecting him to just give me
    some exercises to do.  He did mention posture and sleeping habits.
    myk

    Get a different bass, one that's BALANCED!!!. The only time I have
    ever had problems like that, was when I owned (as a second bass)
    a neck heavy Vantage bass. Nice tone with the preamp, but not worth 
    the pain. I also learned that once you get to the state of pain
    just moving your arm or head you just have to stop for a couple
    of days and take your muscle relaxants until thet stretch or pull
    mends otherwise the cramping just causes more problems. I have found
    that ROBAXISOL (sp) C1/8 with codine helps if you absolutely have
    to continue but it's not good for long term use (a few days only).
    In Canada it's not prescription but you have to ask for it...oh
    DON'T OPERATE HEAVY MACHINERY while using it...no heavy metal either

    Two suggestions: the first one is, have you changed anything else about
    your posture when you changed instruments? I have noticed that I have
    much less muscle strain when I stand erect during rehearsals than when
    I sit on a stool. I think it's because when I sit down I tend to hunch
    over the instrument, and this puts more stress on my neck and
    shoulders, even though some of the weight of the guitar is resting on
    my leg. I'm talking about when using the same position for several
    hours.
    
    The other suggestion is, try Yoga classes. There are many exercises
    that stretch and relax the muscles in your neck, shoulders and upper
    back. Most modern physical therapy routines were copped from classic
    Yoga exercises. They just give them fancy names like "extreme
    nuero-muscular extension", etc.
    
    - Ram

    Well, here's a thought..
    
    Different guitars will fall on your body in different
    ways.  A Strat for instance tends to lay back on your
    abdomen where a paul will lay flatter on your body.
    
    Could the hoffner be sitting on your stomach in a way which,
    when you look at the neck, you have to twist *your* neck
    to see the fret board ?
    
    The only reason I thought of this is when switching from my
    Ibanez to my Strat.... 
    
    Of course it could be the 'top-heavyness' that you referred to.

    Good luck what ever you find out.
    

    How low do you wear your bass ???  I used to have pain after playing
    for a couple hours, at the time i was playing an Ibanez Musician
    neck through body design, sounded great but was one heavy mutha.
    What i ended up doing is wearing it higher on my chest.  i found
    that when i was wearing it low, either playing with a pick or not,
    I rested much more weight on the guitar body with my forearm and
    hand than when i wore it higher.  Also when you wear it higher it
    tends to distribute the weight more evenly across your back as 
    opposed to if you wear it low all the weight tends to hang on that
    shoulder.  Give it a try and see if it helps,  ;^)   If you ar used
    to wearing it low it may take a little time getting used to the
    new feel, but once you get used to it i think you'll find that your
    capable of greater reach and speed.  Plus think of the good company
    you'll be with,    look how high,  Stanley Clark, Al Dimeola, Tuck
    Andress and Steve Howe wear they're guitars.   
    
                                                     Smokin'  Bass
    
    
                                                         Dan . . .

>    That's interesting 'cause the GP I went to yesterday prescribed
>    a bunch of muscle relaxers etc. and said that I should contact
>    a Physical Therapy group.  I was expecting him to just give me
>    some exercises to do.  He did mention posture and sleeping habits.
>    myk

GP's tend to not be qualified for treating this kind of ailment.  It's still
fairly new as a subspecialty.  

I've preached my sermon before, so I'll just summarize it.  If you develop any 
kind of persistent pain from playing your instrument, you should see an 
orthopedist or rheumatologist who understands injuries resulting from overuse.
If you have pain in your fingers, wrist, elbow or shoulder immediately after
playing, an immediate ice pack might save you from months of misery.

Bob

    My RichBich is top-heavy, but that dosen't bother me at all cuz
    I play sitting down. Try it, I play alot better on my tail. Don't
    use any strength at all to hold the thing.  

	After I got my new Fender Strat I've started to get problems
	with my right arm. It feels like the curved body of the Strat
	fits so nicely to my right arm that it prevents the blood from
	flowing freely - I don't know if this is right, but that's how
	it feels. This happens after intensive scale practicing for 2-3
	hours, sitting on a chair. A couple of days after, I feel like
	having a 'cold' arm, not really a pain, but something that
	feels like it could develop to something worse. Now since I
	share my practicing between the Strat and the classic guitar,
	it has not developed yet, but I'm a bit worried about it - I'd
	hate to be forced to less practicing...

	The Blade, which I traded away for the Strat, did not give me
	any problems like this - I think due to a more 'sharp' curve on
	the body - and perhaps also because it didn't have the same lo-
	cation of the volume pot as the Strat. I've now taken off the
	knob on the pot to see if it helps (I kept finding myself try-
	ing not to hit it with my right hand when playing).

	Any of you recognize this problem? Any advices?

	Poul

    have you tried playing left handed?
    
    >:*)<

    
    That's one reason why you should never get rid of an old guitar!  Now
    you can't go back and do an A/B test...
    
    Your body will tell you what feels right.  Just find the posture that
    lets you play your scales faster & easier.  And oh, yeah, take your
    foot off of that little step thing...  *8')
    
    Besides, 2 to 3 hours in one position doing anything is too much.  You
    need to take at least a 5 minute break every hour, unless you really
    want that RSI disability check.  Put the axe down, walk around, and
    stretch.
    

    DONT PLAY SCALES!!!!!
    	8^).
    P.K.

Poul,

I've had some problems with tendonitis in my right elbow (not from
playing guitar) and I've found that certain playing positions
seem to aggravate it. 

With the classical guitar I need to hold the neck up a bit higher
so there's less pressure on my elbow where it rests on the side of the 
guitar.

I also have a Strat. I find the Strat to be very comfortable. That's what
the curve on the body is designed for, I think.

I'd experiment with some different sitting positions. Try playing with a
strap on with the guitar held a bit higher. Don't play if it hurts. If 
your problem is tendonitis, it's hard to get rid of.

The suggestion to take breaks is a good one too. Play for short periods
with short breaks.

Hope this helps,
Bob

    If anything, I've had the opposite effect.  Guitars which have more of
    an edge to them tend to cut off the circulation a little on my right
    (picking) arm as the edge of the guitar pushes into the skin of my
    forearm.  I notice this with my Les Paul (very sharp edge) if I wear it
    up too high.  Doesn't seem to be as much of a problem if I wear it a
    little lower.  It's harder on my left wrist to play with it lower, but
    more comfortable for my right one.  Trade offs, trade offs.
    
    Greg

	Thanks for the advices guys. I do try to adjust my playing posi-
	tion to minimum discomfort, and I also do stretch exercises of
	arms and fingers in between (have always done this). But this is
	bugging me; some time ago, I used to rest my underarms on my desk
	to reach the keyboard to my workstation, rather than placing the
	keyboard on the edge of the desk and let the underarms hang free
	- and this developed some of the same feeling in both my arms/
	hands - I guess I'm vulnerable to sustained pressure like this.

	Perhaps it has not been that bad the last couple of days - maybe
	it helped to remove the knob on the volume pot. That pot has a
	stupid position IMO!

	Poul

Hey, I haven't checked out the notes file in a while, but seeing painful
practices made me wanna relate that this "guitar wannabe" actually bled
my fingers during practice a week or so ago trying to hork an SRV lick
(unsuccessfully). I always heard of this kind of thing happening but 
thought it was pretty crazy till i saw the blood. :-) Actually it
wasn't really all that painful until the next day when I tried to practice 
again. I didn't have wrap-around callouses on one finger & that's the
one I was leaning on too hard. Right on the corner. Ouch. So it gave
me opportunity to practice drums again for a while.