Conference napalm::guitar

    I'll go on record here...
    
    I used to own a DSP128 (not the "plus").  It was the first
    multieffector I'd owned, so at first I really liked it.  But after
    a while, and listening to everyones raving about their new stuff,
    I started to get tired of the way DIGItech sets up their stuff.
    
    What you end up with is a like 16 "chains" that you can choose from.
    Out of those 16, you might find two or three that you like.  Okay,
    so you go to tweak some params to perfect your sound, and whamm-o!
    You suddenly become aware of the limited amount of tweaking you
    can do.  The params in each effect are (were) pretty limited.

    This is not to say that I didn't like the GSP5 at all.  It did have
    some pretty cool tones.  It just didn't (IMHO) seem flexable enough
    for me.
    
    Personally, I love my rack the way it is.  I only want to add an
    MP1 to it for that Midi - TUBE - PREamp sound.  This was I could
    get all my tones, but wouldn't have to rely on the somewhat weak
    SGE distortions.  Seems that no one box is perfect.
    
    Here's what seems to be available on the Multi-MIDI market now:
    
    Alesis Quadraverb
    ADA MP1
    ART SGE 
    ART Multiverb
    DIGItech DSP128+, DSP128 (And a prom chip for upgrade)
    DIGItech GSP5
    Roland GP-8
    Roland GP-16
    Boss ME5
    
    Ummm... What else ?

    jc

    
>    What you end up with is a like 16 "chains" that you can choose from.
>    Out of those 16, you might find two or three that you like.  Okay,
>    so you go to tweak some params to perfect your sound, and whamm-o!
>    You suddenly become aware of the limited amount of tweaking you
>    can do.  The params in each effect are (were) pretty limited.
    
    This is true of a number of multi-effect units, the ART Multiverb
    in particular.  The typical rationale is that when doing just one effect
    at a time, the processor can handle lots of parameters, but when doing
    multiple effects at once, the processor can't handle as many parameters
    (limited by processor bandwidth and memory size).
    
    The good part of this is that when you start layering effects you
    usually don't *need* as much adjustment on each as the subtleties tend
    to get masked by the other effects.
    
    I'm curious if the Quadraverb and SGE allow adjustment of all
    parameters *regardless* of the effects being used (never played with one
    or seen the manual).
    
    The funky thing about Digitech stuff to me is that the "pedal" they
    give you is a simple bypass/patch up/patch down type controller, it
    doesn't allow random access to the patches, but then it's better than
    no pedal at all, eh?  Plus, you can't name patches, so you need a good
    memory  8^)  8^)
    
    I don't know where you live, but Boston and NYC dealers have been
    selling DSPs for less than Musician's Friend, I assume you could get
    similar prices on the GSP.
    
    							Brian
    						   still_analog_only

    I've noticed a few SGE's appearing in the classifieds lately.  You can
    get them for as little as $400 now and I'm pretty sure they're less
    than a year old.
    
    Mike

    Luckily the SGE seems to have plenty of memory.  It allows you to
    fiddle with all the paramters, but there are some FX that you can't
    use together, so when they tell you 9 FX at once, they are kinda
    lying...  There are to sections to the SGE, one analog and one digital.
    Certain digital FX can't be used together, and the same is true
    for the analog stuff.  I can't think of a good example, but I bet
    some other SGE owners can give you an example.
    
    RE: Foot controllers..
    
    Yeah, it's better than nothing !  Of course you can always go and
    drop $100-$400 on a midi controller too...  ;^)  I remember wishing
    that my DSP128 (not the plus) could have a switch like that.  You
    just have to "line up" your fave patches so you can incr. thru quickly.
    
    jc

    You may have read my previous review of the GSP-5 in another note
    (maybe the SGE note?), but the bottom line for me was that I didn't
    like it very much. 
    
    It has it's good points, but the effect "chains" I see as a MAJOR
    downpoint.  The SGE has limitations on what effects and what parameters
    you can use together and the ranges on some of the delay and reverb
    effects, but it will let you select the combination of effects that you
    want, not some preprogrammed set that some engineer liked.  With the
    SGE you set the number of combinations of effects, and while there are
    some limitations on which effects are compatible (at what ranges),
    at least it gives you a little control which the GSP-5 does not.
    
    I also didn't particularly care for the distortion in the GSP-5.  I
    suppose that if you never wanted to play anything but rhythm parts it
    would work fine, but I couldn't seem to get a good lead sound from it. 
    For only $100 more, the SGE got every sound I wanted and gave me more
    control over it, AND gave me more effects to play with on top of that. 
    That's where my money went.
    
    Greg

    I like the sound of discrete transistors better than IC's,
    i wonder if one of these things could be made with Discrete Components.
    Or better yet, Tubes! Yea, An Art SGE with 50,000 tubes built into
    a  couple of Vanagons! Yea ! :-)

    Hey Pat,
    I don't know nuthin' 'bout no processor rack mount thangs, but if
    yer gonna sell yer Peavey stomp boxes, gimme first crack at 'em,
    ok?
    
    bulldawg

    re .2
    
    Brian,
    
    You can actually do a little bit more with the footswitch on the
    DSP-128 Plus if I'm reading the manual correctly. There are two
    footswitch jacks that you can configure to do different 
    things besides UP/DOWN/BYPASS. In fact, you can assign each button
    on the footswitch to a certain program. If you have 2 footswitches
    (a total of 6 buttons) you could have random access to 6 different
    programs. That part of the manual is sort of confusing, but there
    are several things that you can do with the footswitch. Of course
    a MIDI controller is the ultimate solution, but the Digitech one isn't
    bad for free!
    
    re algorithms...
    
    I don't mind using the algorithms to program effects. I find that
    they give me enough flexibility, but obviously they don't for 
    everyone. I don't use that many effects at a time, so I
    find an algorithm that has what I want, and "turn off" what I 
    don't need. 
    
    Because I use the distortion on my amp, I didn't look at the
    GSP-5. I wanted pure effects, which is why I purchased the
    DSP-128 Plus.
    
    -Tom

    
    	The new version of the DSP128+ is the DSP256.
    The replacement for the DSP128 is the MSP-4....***$269.***
    Then go get a tube driver with line level output.. In my opinion,
     the distortion on the GP-8, SGE and GSP-5 all bite the big one. 
    

    Also, on controllers...
    
    DIGItech makes one (PDS3500) that is pretty cheap ($150?).
    
    Pat, beware.... Once you go rack, you'll never come back...
    And ya just HAVE to keep spending...And there is a lot more to
    it than you see.
    
    If ya buy a GSP5, you'll wanna buy a rack for it.  Then you'll wanna
    stereo power amp...Then you'll want a preamp...Then you'll want
    an Aural Exciter...Then you'll want a pitchshifter (unless you buy
    a SGE ;^)... Then you'll wanna noise gate... Then an EQ... Then
    more power amps...Then more speakers...........................
    
    I'm tellin' ya, it's a disease; The quest for the ultimate sound.
    Ask any of my pals like House, Buckley, Reaume, Minville...
    
    ;)^

     I just bought a GSP-5 multieffects box and the guy at the music
     store told me that one of the guitar mags. recently had an artical
    about the unit and some more programs for it. Has anyone else seen
    this issue or know wich mag. it was ??
    
                      Thanks
                          Jon "Gonzo"

    I've got the article kicking around someplace...  I'll  try to dig it
    up and send it to ya...
    
    Now I'm gonna move this over to the GSP-5 note...  ;)
    
    jc