Conference napalm::guitar

       i havent tried it , but i saw the very same ad and was considering
    it, let me know how it goes .  thanks
    
                                                         dan . . .

    
    I am a true believer that you are have to be born with perfect pitch!!
    
    I mean, perfect pitch is knowing EXACTLY what the pitch is.  i mean, I
    know someone who can sit there with a sine wave generator and sweep it
    across the freq. spectrum and say "ok, now its at 1.23Khz, now its at
    3.5K, now its 6.24Khz, etc etc...they can hear the vibrations...they
    know the EXACT pitch"  I am a believer than relative perfect pitch can
    be taught...ie, the ability to retain a pitch in your head and
    reproduce it.  I have learned this.  My relative perfect pitch comes
    and goes...some days I can sit there and sing perfect D's, A's, Eb's,
    F#'s, etc etc, some days I have no clue. The more you work on it, the
    better it gets.
    
    So, that is my point of view...noone can learn true perfect pitch, but
    with hard work you can obtain good to excellent relative perfect pitch
    with practice (if you are not tone deaf). 
    
    Buck

    �	...I do want to try this course to improve my playing.
                                        
    I don't understand why you think having perfect pitch will improve
    your playing.  It'll allow you to tune up without an external
    reference... it'll improve your transcription abilities I guess.
    
    								Marc 

    Is this the David Burge course you're talking about?  I've seen
    his ads and I'm really skeptical, but also very curious.  The ads
    talk about learning to recognize the specific "color" of each note.
    I can sorta relate to that (theoretically), but it's hard to believe 
    that it can be effectively taught.  I don't have perfect pitch, but 
    I can usually get within a half-step just by singing  some reference 
    notes.  I know the feel of some notes at the extremes of my vocal 
    range, so I just figure intervals from there.  But remembering the
    "color" of a C#?  I dunno.
    
    Bob
    
    

    
    	I agree with Buck on this one. I knew a couple of (strange)
    	dudes at Berklee that wandered around with a tuning fork
    	vibrating in their ear, so that they would get A 440 engrained
    	in the brain. You could play a note on the piano and they could
    	pick it out.
    
    	I consider this relative.
    
    	Guy Novello

    In that the frequencies that we have given names to are all defined
    by convention, there is no such thing as being "born with perfect
    pitch". In fact, over the years the exact frequency of the note
    A above middle C has been varied a few percent. Anyone who can identify
    an A or any other note has learned it.
    
    Danny W.

    In the 6-odd years that I've been playing, I have gained a type
    of "perfect/relative pitch", in that, I can pick out the open notes 
    of my axe (e,a,d,g,b) fairly well.  When I tune up, I know where the notes
    fall in, and I can test that to a fork, and they're usually close
    enough for all intensive purposes; likewise, I can pick out notes
    within a song I hear, well enough to play it myself.  This probably
    has come from hearing these notes a trillion times, they're imprinted
    in the back of my noggin.
    
    I guess my point is, you can build this sort of talent (for lack of 
    a better term) on your own in time.  I wouldn't imagine it was
    essential to pay 30 some-odd dollars to be able to identify pitches, 
    when you can gradually just learn it yourself. 
    
               
    FWIW,
    	Craig
    

    
    
                Having a good ear for music (ie. "perfect pitch") is
    not something that anyone can learn.  For the most part it is a
    hereditary trait not unlike painting or writing.  Usually if a
    person can sing reasonably well, he/she has what it takes to further
    develope their perceived pitch.  There aren't a lot of successful
    musicians out there that don't have the ability to sing.  I don't
    mean like Pavarotti, but being able to vocalize one octave accurately.
    
                The perfect part comes from years of exposure to music
    and familiarity with song keys.  
    
                If you have played 300 tunes in the key of A,  it would
    be a lot easier to recognize that same A as opposed to a Db!!
    
                Electronic tuners are a real conveinence for an active
    guitarist, paricularly because you can use them in silence.  I would
    not recommend them for any beginner. Tuning with a fork or pitch pipe
    or even a piano is the best way to develope the knack.
                                                          
    
    
                                                      MTZM_BLEATS

    Having perfect pitch does buy you a little more than freedom from
    tuners.
    
    It just makes it a little bit easier to do certain things, like
    determine the key of a tune you hear, understand odd intervals
    where relative pitch fails you, etc.
    
    However, I think the most important thing to have is relative pitch. 
    This is what allows you to play the notes that you can hear in your
    head among other things.
    
    My guess is that the course is just standard ear training techniques.
    If so, I don't know whether or not it will give you perfect pitch
    but if your diligent about the training, it should help you a lot
    if your note good at finding notes you hear in your head.
    
    It's probably things most people do on their own but its often helpful
    to have a course to guide you.
    
    	db

    Let's pool our quarters, order the course, and let Buck try it out.
    Here's mine.  Plunk!
    
    Bob

    
    Not me...I don't *do* colors!!  :^)
    
    Here's my quarter for db to take the course!
\
    kerplunk
    
    Buck

    Hey,  gimme the money.  *I'll* do it!

    :-)
    
    Rodney M.

    I've always wondered what Perfect Pitch REALLY is/means.  Some people
    had convinced me I had it, but I don't know.  I can tell what note
    is being played on an instrument, with no other guide - but I can't
    tell what Hz value the note or sound is!  Is this more like "pitch
    memory" - I remember what a D sounds like - than perfect pitch?
    Is there an accepted "definition" of Perfect Pitch?  And one for
    Relative Pitch?  
    
    How does one test another for each of these kinds of pitch memory?
    
    	-Jim

    I have a friend that got this course.  He said it was interesting
    and helpful, but he didn't get perfect pitch from it.  He did say,
    however that the exercises helped him with his relative pitch quite
    a bit.
    
    Greg

    
    
    	Is relative pitch the same thing as knowing the interval?  I
    can't hum a note at the right pitch to start with, but my instructor
    says I'm good with intervals, meaning that if he gives me a reference
    note, I can hum (someday play?) the rest of the intervals for that
    key.  Or, he can give me a note and ask for the IV and I can find
    it in my head (hope I never find the note that makes me pass out!
    Dang!).

    Perfect pitch = if a fly buzzes around your your head you can tell
    what pitch his wings are giving off ...
    
    Relative pitch = your wife is screaming at you so loud it drowns
    out the stereo, sorta sounds like a high C, or E maybe ???
    
    
    				Scary

    
    	After adjusting the truss rod on my friend Dave's Les Paul,
    I decided to just *try* to tune it up by ear. I tuned the two E
    strings up to pitch first, starting with the low E and then the
    high E, until they matched and sounded "right" to me. I then filled
    in the tuning of the strings in between, compensating for the effect
    of their pull on the neck by tweaking the two E's after bringing
    each of the other strings up to pitch. 
    
    	Getting my trusty Bananna tuner, I found that I nailed every
    one of 'em "right on" in pitch - needle dead center - I couldnt
    believe it! Does this mean I have perfect pitch? I dunno, we just
    got done playing and I had a lot of "fresh notes" in my head! Perhaps
    if I was able to do it after not playing or listening to any music
    for two weeks, I might start to believe it.
                 
    	Now, if I can do it, *I'd think that* anyone can learn how to.
    Whether a "course" on doing so will help someone, I'd say yes, it
    would. Being able to do this is an experiential thing; it's dependant
    on your own experience in doing. Something that encourages this
    is bound to have a positive effect on the ability.
    
    	Joe Jas
    

    Oddly enough, years ago, when I played with a pedal steel player (C/W
    band), this guy couldn't sing in key, or even hum in key, but he always
    started exactly right (you know, pedal steel guitars got painted on
    frets that reside about an inch under the strings). Were talking
    thousanths of an inch to get the exact tone (he usually started the
    songs).

    This may relate to experiance with the instrument, or just a skill that
    can be learned, but I was always amazed at how he could track what ever
    you were playing, or if you decided to play in A instead of E, how he
    would find the notes. Maybe this isn't related, but I'd guess that
    there is some connection.

    Now that I think of it, people who play fretless instruments (violins,
    fretless basses, upright basses, trombones, etc - keyboards don't
    count) must have mastered some form of this skill also.

							Jens
    

    
    well, just remember - fretless instruments if played properly also
    rely a whole lot on hand position. However, when you're young, foolish
    and lazy, and technique is being practiced - ya, the same thing
    happens.
    
    bs(ex-string bass person)

    I played a number of 'borrowed' fretless basses a few years back &
    found I had little difficulty playing them (as long as the scale
    lengths were 34 inches). Maybe it's just a matter of knowing your
    instrument. Perfect Pitch?? Unlikely, at least in my case, but then
    I've never really thought much about it.

							    Jens

    This is a subject we've bandied around alot in our household. My
    husband did his Senior Thesis on perfect pitch, so he interviewed
    a lot of people on this subject. The best description he came across
    of the "born with" type of perfect pitch is the one refered to in
    an earlier reply...they can pick out a note like most of us can
    pick out a color. We all had to 'learn' our colors at one time,
    but we have the inborn ability to recognize them...they can do this
    with notes. He even told of one guy (who was the singer in his old
    jazz band) who could hear a car horn and pick out the notes &
    intervals).
    
    Most guitarists eventually 'learn' the low E. I guess just constant
    repetition can teach you to pick out certain notes (but not in the
    way mentioned above).
    
    I have a question about another type of perfect pitch. I call it
    'pitch memory'. This happens to me...I'll hear a song in my head
    (usually a popular song), and if I go and check it against the
    recording, it will be in the right key. If I know a song fairly
    well, I can usually pull it up with the right key. My guess is that
    a lot of natural musicians who play be ear can do this (or do it
    without realizing that they are 'in key'). I describe it as a tape
    recorder in my head..it's very detailed. I would bet that the tempo
    is the same too, but never checked into it.
    
    Anyone else experience this??? 
    
    Pat
    
    PS. Sometimes I can't turn the *()&)*)??!! thing off!

    I know exactly what you're talking about - I do that too.  Have
    you ever been messing around with your guitar while the TV's on
    and find yourself jamming along with the little jingles during
    commercials ?  I believe that when the Earth was created, something
    in "A" was playing in the background .... ;^)
    
    
    
    				Scary

>    He even told of one guy (who was the singer in his old
>    jazz band) who could hear a car horn and pick out the notes &
>    intervals).
    
    If anyone is impressed by that, you oughta check out some of the stuff
    Steve Vai has done with Frank Zappa and on his own.
    
    Vai has "transcribed" Frank Zappa talking (normal conversational type
    speech) and in some sense "doubled" Zappas words on his guitar (sorta
    like the opening dialogue between Vai's guitar and David Lee Roth on
    "Yankee Rose" only much much more impressive).
    
    	db

    Steve Vai did that as well on his own record, Flexable.  The song is
    only available on the CD(has 4-5 bonus tracks), though.  If you want to 
    hear a bizzare album, "Flexable" is the one to get...It does, however 
    have it's share of great guitar playing, ie. The Attitude Song, which 
    was on a GP soundpage a couple years ago. 
    
    The last song on the CD is in all probability, the most offensive thing
    you'll ever hear come out of a studio...It's 8 tracks of octatones,
    played m2nds apart, backwards.  He describes it in the liner notes as 
    "The result of no sleep for 3 days, wracking my brain for a song." 
    
    /c

    When I saw Steve Vai and his backup singer David Lee Roth a few
    months back, the two of 'em carried on a "conversation", it was
    incredible.  Of course, I'm sure it was staged and rehearsed but
    Vai played this one particular "sentence" that said something like,
    "... I don't know what the f*** to say ..." and it was great.
    
    
    				Scary

    Scary ...
    
    Where did you see that ?
    
    Bonzo

    The concert was in Greenville, SC.  I guess it's been about 6 months
    ago now, maybe longer.
    
    
    
    				Scary

    I've been playing the piano for a number of years and since
    I can remember I can tell the pitch of any note played on the piano.
    I seem to get it from the tone colour coz a D in any octave still
    sounds like a D. I know this, because even if the piano is slightly
    out of tune I can pick up on the notes. Since I've had a couple of 
    synthesisers the pitch sense had sharpened up, but I still find 
    difficulty with other instruments. A couple of times I've played 
    songs off the radio and found I've hit the exact key the song is in. 
    
    Its pretty handy transcribing songs since you don't have to work
    out the interval from the key note each time. 
    
    I used to be able to tune the open strings on my acoustic guitar
    by ear without a reference pitch pretty close too.
    
    I can't often sing a given note on pitch.
    
    /mark

    BUT I can hum a song back in the exact pitch it is on a tape that I
    listened to it on.. Does that mean I have perfect pitch
    ???
    
    

    >    BUT I can hum a song back in the exact pitch it is on a tape that I
    >    listened to it on.. Does that mean I have perfect pitch?
    
    Not necessarily.  That could mean that you have "pitch memory".
    Many people have that.
    
    Perfect pitch, as I understand it)  means that you can hear a note and
    tell us WHAT the note is (C#, Bb, etc.).
    
    Note that you can't have another try AFTER any pitch has been
    identified for you.  That is, if you guess wrong, and I tell you
    "No that was C" from that point on you might use "Relative pitch"
    to identify notes.
    
    The basic idea is that you can come in "cold" and identify a note.