Conference napalm::guitar

    Thats a very comprehensive list but I would add...
    
    o Check the tuning machines for any 'play' and anchor.
    
    o Pay very close attention to the neck, not only for straightness
      but also for neck dings that will drive you nuts and the joint of
      the neck to the body to see if it's pulling at all.
    
    o The best place to see and try many diverse guitars in a diverse price
      range is in a large music store (with the exception of some noters
      houses!). This will give you a good base line for comparison of
      quality, brands and price. You may be able to narrow your search
      if you did this first.        

    Good, but I'd add that cosmetic appearances such as the color, quality
    of the finish, etc., really have nothing to do with the value of
    the guitar as a learning instrument. It may affect the resale value,
    but some of the best guitars in the world are scratched, dinged,
    cracked, etc. A beginner could easily be fooled into favoring a
    beautiful looking clunker over a sweet sounding and playing instrument
    that looked like the cat dragged it in. Of course, to some people
    how they look is more important than how they sound.
    
    Also, I'd never start off bargaining by offering 85% of the asking
    price. My wife, who comes from a country where you have to bargain
    for everything you can imagine, has taught me never to offer more
    than half of what they are asking. If you start at 85% you have
    no bargaining position. Offer 50%, watch them freak out, pick up
    your coat and start to leave. With your hand on the doorknob, turn
    around and say, "Well, I might be able to come up to 75%, considering
    you're such a nice guy and a drove all the way out here, etc, etc."
    You might finally close at 85%. One thing I have learned in watching
    the WantAdvertiser is that *nobody* expects to actually get what
    they are asking for things.

    And I agree with .1 that it would be best to visit a large music
    store first. It's much easier to compare guitars and get a feeling
    for how they sound when you can play them all in the same room at
    the same time. With all their problems, music stores still provide
    fewer variables than you will get when trying things out in peoples'
    homes.    

    - Ram

    
    	Hmmm...I wonder if somebody (towards the top) "actually
    expects" to get what they're asking...
    
    	Joe Jas
    

    It is a good idea to go to a store and check out the sound/action
    of different brands with an experienced guitar player.  In this
    way the person can figure out brands and price range (new) for the
    type of guitar that is really desired.
        
    Secondly, when looking over used guitars of lesser known brands
    I always check construction quality.  I would suggest the following
    rules:
    
    1. Play all 6 strings in a a single cord.  Make sure highs don't
       drown out lows and vica versa.  Badly designed guitars don't
       weight the sound evenly.
    
    2. Disregard flashy and/or fake inlays.  The only effect these
       may have is the loss of sound due to grain loss.  This goes
       for all cosmetics.
    
    3. Take a look at the f$technical_term( front of the guitar ). 
       Most common building material is spruce which has a nice sound.
       Newer Yamahas (and others?) use a spruce veneer plywood that
       is supposed to be as good - I don't believe it.  You can see
       the plywood grain in side of the sound hole.  I would personally stay
       away from plywood sound boards.  Also check the grain, the smaller
       and more straight it is the better sound it will have.
    
    4. Take a look at the back of the guitar.  Better made guitars use
       a split back.  The two pieces are joined in the middle making
       a mirror image of the grain.  This helps generate a more even
       sound for all strings.  This type of pattern (I'm no artist)...
    
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                          /----   ----\
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    5. As someone said check tuning gears.  I like a slow ratio to make
       tuning easy.  Again, don't be fooled by looks.  Try them out
       tuning up and down.  Make sure they don't slip or work unevenly.

    6. I like ebony bridge and neck.  The hard wood brings more sound
       down to the body.  I guess most guitars use rosewood.
    
    That's it for my suggestions.  I have no idea if the technology
    has changed in recent years, so maybe some of this is out of date.
    This is pretty much what the guy told me who made my guitar.
    
    Tim

    re .-1

    I think the important thing is balance of sound. I happen to have
    a Guild that has the one piece maple concave (vex depending whether
    your outside or inside the guitar) carved back that has a very balanced
    sound and I feel projects a louder sound than many two piece backs.
    
    I guess the key is to try as many different types as you can and
    let your ear be your guide.
    
    Dave.

     Last night I tried out a few used guitars in a music store to start 
getting a feel for the differences.  When I played some of the strings at some 
of the frets, I got a distinct buzzing sound.  The salesman said it was no 
problem, and he could straighten the neck in no time at all if I bought it.  I 
told him if he straightened it I'd try it again and see if I liked the way it 
sounded.  Maybe I was a little paranoid that he was just trying to sell 
the guitar no matter how good it was and maybe it was a simple thing to fix.  
I don't even know if straightening the neck would fix the problem.  Which 
brings me to the question I wanted to ask.

     What defects could inexpensively be fixed given a guitar is otherwise 
in great shape and is a good deal?

     The list of things to look for in a guitar is very helpful.  However, the 
note says that if a given guitar fails any of the list of criterion, move on 
to the next guitar on your list.  However, some of the problems with a given 
guitar are probably simple to fix.  Thus, I might be able to find a guitar 
that is a good deal, even though it has a few problems, and can be easily and 
inexpensively fixed.  Does anyone have an idea of what problems are 
inexpensive to fix and which are expensive to fix?   

    I don't understand. Is the price good because the guitar is in poor
    repair? If the guy fixes the problems will the price go up? Did
    the salesman have problem with correcting the buzz? I think you
    are perfectly justified in what you told him. If he is not willing
    to do this for you, maybe he doesn't know what the problem is or how
    to fix it in the first place. Otherwise he'd have done it already.
    His merchandise would certainly move faster if it worked properly.
    
    I would forget moving on to the next guitar in that place and move on 
    to the next store on your list.

    Dave.

     I had the same feeling after trying out the guitars.  Therefore, I am 
planning to try some other stores.  However, I was still wondering if there 
are certain flaws that are inexpensive to get fixed.  If I knew the price of 
say straightening the neck, I could possibly buy a guitar and get the neck 
straightened for less than it might cost to buy the same one in perfect 
condition.  I guess I'd feel I had a better bargaining position if I knew the 
cost of fixing the problems with a certain guitar.

     Also, the guy at the store claimed the "buzzing" was caused by the neck 
being misaligned.  Is this true?  I thought I read somewhere (possibly in this 
note) that is was caused by misaligned frets.  Is it possibly both?  Which is 
more expensive to fix?

    Generally, if something is wrong with a guitar, the only way you
    can tell for sure that is fixable is to fix it.
    
    With string buzzes, it could be a simple adjustment of the "truss
    rod" (neck straightening, kinda sorta), a bridge adjustment, filing
    some frets, etc.  None of these are gonna set you back a lot.
    
    However it could be that the neck is irrepairably warped.  There's
    also other imaginable irrepairable causes.
    
    I would HIGHLY recommend that you NEVER buy a guitar that isn't
    in perfect working condition until you become more familiar with
    guitars and how they work, and you yourself can diagnose the
    problem and estimate its repairability.

    If it's a store that's selling this guitar,  it is entirely reasonable
    for you to ask the guy to fix it to your satisfaction before you 
    give him any more or commitment.  I do this all the time.  I also
    insist that they put new strings (if necessary) on it so I don't have 
    to guess how much better it might sound with new strings.
    
    If it's not a store, the seller can refuse to fix it, but in that case
    *I* would NOT buy it.

    	db