Conference napalm::guitar

   Doug,

   Is there a classical guitar store in your area?  If so, I would 
   suggest going there and playing everything you can get your hands
   on.  Compare them all so that you can get an idea of the tone 
   differences between the various brands of guitars.  Even two
   identical guitars can sound drastically different, so don't necessarily
   rule out a manufacturer because you tried one of their guitars
   and it was a total loser.

   If you want a new guitar, Dauphin makes several decent guitars that 
   are under $500.  I don't know much about Yamaha, except that I 
   have never been impressed with the sound.

   I would suggest looking for a used guitar.  You can get a good used 
   Hirade for about $500.  You might also want to try an Alhumbra (sp?).

   It is my understanding that cedar dries out so that after about
   20 years or so, the guitar is shot.

   Good luck,
   frank

    I've been out of the classical guitar market for several years,
    but I remember a few things.
    
    A cedar top will tend to give a slightly darker tone than spruce,
    but things like thickness, bracing, bridge construction and body
    size can also affect tone color, so I won't make a blanket statement
    about it.  Personally, I prefer dark-toned classicals.  Jose Ramirez
    uses cedar for his best models ($N000.00).
    
    Also, cedar tops will age differently from spruce.  A spruce-top
    guitar will tend to develop it's voice over a period of two or more
    years, but a cedar top will tend to be fairly stable after one year.
    
    I would definitely look into used instruments.  You get more axe
    for your money, and it's already broken in.  Hirade and Sakurai
    make Kohno copies that sound great for half the price of a Kohno
    (or less).  A used H or S should be a great value.
    
    One troublesome factor with classicals is that the strings are a
    much bigger variable than with steel-string guitars.  Different
    brands can sound very different on the same axe, and it takes them
    days to settle in.  This can realy confound a comparison when you're
    shopping.
    
    Bob

    I really do not know much about the classical guitar market here. I got
    mine about 9 years ago in Mejico. It is hand made and I do not know
    the type of wood it is made of.
    
    I have been trying different brands of strings, and they all made
    the guitar sound a little different. The ones I have on now, I think
    they are Martin, give a very nice sound.
    
    I would look at the used market. I have played some Yamahas and
    they sound nice.
    

    I have been in the classical guitar market myself this year, and
    although I went for a lower price range, here are a couple of
    suggestions:
    
    1. Take a look at the Artesano line of guitars, they are made in
    Spain and have gotten alot of endorsements by various University
    programs as excellent student to semi-pro models.  I was particularly
    impressed by the top-of-the-line sprice top model at around $325
    list.  They have a couple of cedar tops at around $50 to $100 less.
    
    2. In Japanese guitars, I purchased an Alvarez (by Yairi) which
    I am very happy with.  Their line parallels Yamaha's, but I found
    you get a warmer fuller tone for a little less money.
    
    Strings make an amazing difference.  My Alvarez sounds better with
    new Augustine or Sovarez (sp?) strings than many more expensive
    axes tried in the store with dead factory installed strings.
    Practicing daily, I'm lucky if strings retain their tone for more
    than 3-4 weeks (less for high tension).
    
    Best of luck, 
    
    - Evan
    (an ex-folky now a Carcassi addict)

    re .-1
    
    I will look at the Artesano's.  There is a store in Denver that
    carries the Artesano line.
    
    I hadn't considered Alvarez, either, which is strange considering
    the fact that I owned an Alvarez/Yairi DY48 for about four years.
    I'll try to find a dealer in this area.
    
    One instrument I'm looking at seriously is a Pimentel.  It's made
    in New Mexico by a couple of brothers who just expanded out of 
    the custom-build/repair business.  The instruments seem to be of
    excellent quality.  The least expensive model is a cedar-top,
    mahogany back and sides instrument.  They use ebony on even the
    least expensive models for the fret board.  The "cheap" one is
    $490.00.
    
    Thanks everyone for the help and ideas.
    
    Regards
    Doug Dickerson
    

    
    What stores in the New England area carry Ramirez class guitars?  I've
    been out of the classical guitar market for about 15 years, but
    it looks like I may have to get back in if I can't get mine fixed.
    If I were still in Chicago I'd know where to start looking, but
    out here I'm lost.  
    
    alison
    

    I saw a couple of Ramirez guitars at the Music Emporium in Cambridge
    the last time I was there two years ago.  They had a few other very
    good classical guitars as well.
    
    The "best" place to find a large (and I mean LARGE) stock of classical
    guitars is in England.  The Guitar Studio in the center of London
    is one of the best.  They import/export to/from everywhere and at
    any one time will have dozens of the best guitars from the best
    luthiers in the shop.  Somehow they sell a lot of guitars "sight
    unseen and sound unheard" to customers who testify to their complete
    satisfaction.  Contact me by mail if you would like a copy of one
    of their ads.
    
    Bob

    re: -.2
    
    Stick with your original thought.
    
    I would go to Sherry-Brenner in Chicago for Ramirez.  They import
    two or three times more than anyone else in the states and if you
    are going to spend those kinds of dollars, you want to select the
    right instrument.  Its been a couple of years since I've been in
    their West Side store, but the prices seemed awfully competitive
    (enough to make you feel better about $118 round trip to Chicago,
    all restrictions apply.)
    
    - Evan