Conference napalm::guitar

	Music theory books are a dime a dozen however good ones are few and 
far between depending on what you can handle. "Twentyth Century Music by 
Vincent Percichetti"(this is mispelled terribly!) is a good music theoy 
book. However keep in mind this is written for keyboards. The biggest
problem I have found with music theory books is that they do not get into
the basics at first enough for the real begining student and unless you are
very good at tranposing what you read on to the fretboard you may not be
able to use what you learn. A publisher who use to sell a lot of good books
was Oak Publications. A good guitar teacher should be able to give theory 
lessons to you to get you over this initial hump to be able to handle a 
book. Maybe if there is enough interest we should start another note and
discuss music theory as it applies to guitar.

					Hope this helps!

						Rick

    	You might want to check out the Berkley Publications for Guitar
    I believe there are 4 volumes. 
    
    		

    	The Berklee publications are good for guitar,but I don't remember
    if they explain alot of music theory or didn't when I went through
    them. They are good for learning more about playing the guitar and
    probably would be worth getting the first volume and maybe  the
    second.
    	They were pretty much written to be incorporated into the other
    classes that were taken at Berklee.
    
    						Rick
    

    Where can the berkley books be purchased??? Yeah I know Berkley....is
    there a mail order address...
    
    dave

			Berklee College of Music
    			1140 Boylston St
    			Boston,Mass 02116
    			(617)266-1400
             		Ask for the Bookstore

        The books were expensive when I bought them 12 years ago there 
    probably over $20 each.
        
    					Good Luck,
    
    						Rick
                  

    	Some time ago I got a pretty good book called "Theory of Chord
    Construction For Guitar". It's about the size of a real thick music
    book, chock full of chords and different positions to play them
    in, AND a lot of Theory pertaining to intervals, circle of 5ths,
    triads, and how different intervals become the various chords.
    				Now I are educated!
    			Tom Testagrossa

    I'm almost positive that the Berkeley books are available at
    The Music Emporium in Cambridge.  You should call them first to
    confirm but I remember seeing them there.
    
    I haven't been impressed with any of the theory books I've looked
    at but there's still a bunch of books people have recommended that
    I haven't checked out yet.
    
    	db

	I was recommended this one when I was taking theory lessons in
	NYC from a classical guitar teacher.  I found it to provide a
	good foundation to build on.  


                <<< DREGS::FIXED$:[NOTES$LIBRARY]MUSIC.NOTE;1 >>>
================================================================================
Note 511.11                  What's a "sus4" chord?                     11 of 13
FROST::SIMON "Gary Simon - BTO Quality Engineering"  10 lines  13-OCT-1986 16:58
                                -< I found it >-
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	As promised in .9:

	"The Guitarist's Harmony"  by Robert Lilienfield amd Basil Cimino

	Published by Franco Colombo, Inc.

	Worth a look if you run into it.

	-gary

    Thanks one and all!  I didn't expect to have so many replies,
    but I'm pleased with the many suggestions that you provided.
    
    I'm going to go music book hunting either
    by browsing in some Hub-area bookstores or by mailordering.
    If I get a chance I'll write back here and let you all know which
    publications helped the most and why.         
    
    Happy Holidays!
    
    	Mike
    
    

    Regarding books: Anyone have an idea where I can get a theory book
    that I have heard called "The Mickey Baker Book"?   I saw it once;
    it was crammed with all these bizarre chords on page 1.  I tried
    learning a few, but then I had to give it back.  Any ideas?
    
    Thanks in advance,
    
    Johnny Jupiter
    

    	Try the Bumblebee Book Shop on 6 Hemingway Boston,Mass 437-1927
    and if he doesn't have it try Boston Music. If it is out of print
    let me know I might still have a copy of volume 1.
    
    						Rick
    

    This note is pretty old (found it w/DIR/TITLE=).  I'm sure these
    books are all still available.  Does anyone have any other suggestions
    for music theory (not necessarily guitar related), possible more
    recently published?  I'm not putting down the older stuff, it's
    just that I've been having trouble finding *ANY* music theory books
    at the bookstores in this area and having as big a selection will
    help.  Also if the publication is fairly recent, that might help
    too.
    
    Thanks,
    Greg

	re.: -.1

	The July issue (I think) of Guitar Player (Jerry Garcia on the 
	cover) has a good beginner's article on theory and also has a
	list of books at the end.  Might be worth checking out.

	-gary

    Yes, I was going to mention that article.  It focuses on chord
    progressions.
    
    The presentation is excellent.  Even a non-berker like me could
    understand everything presented.
    
    	db

    Thanks!  I read that article, very well written.  I finally did
    find a basic music theory book at a local store and have been reading
    (not necessarily understanding fully, but reading).  
    
    gh

	What book was it and how do rate it's effectiveness in
	retrospect?

Wow!  Shades of two years ago...

It was by someone named Jones, a paperback.  

How effective?  I guess I'd have to rate that as relative, since I was 
learning from several sources at the same time (instructor, magazines, 
that book).  I'm still not a music theory whiz, but I know a lot more 
then I did two years ago when I wrote that note, so all that must have
done some good.  

My basic problem with learning things like that is that I am basically 
lazy so I need a little extra something to motivate me (like a teacher 
saying "know this by next week").  I also tend to think in tangible terms
so if I can see how something is applied then I tend to remember it 
better then if I just read about something in abstract terms.

That particular book is very dry reading and rather difficult to apply 
directly to the guitar.  There are probably better books around.  

One new source I've found for this type book is the mail order catalogs 
that different places keep sending me.  I can't find any of these books
around town, but the mail order places have a great selection!

Hope this helps,
Greg

>My basic problem with learning things like that is that I am basically 
>lazy so I need a little extra something to motivate me (like a teacher 
>saying "know this by next week").  I also tend to think in tangible terms
>so if I can see how something is applied then I tend to remember it 
>better then if I just read about something in abstract terms.
    
    Boy did that hit home!  

       Here are the books I have used to learn theory.  One caveat: the
       really serious books (especially the Piston books) can be hard to
       use on your own. And this situation can be aggravated if you've
       already learned some pop, blues, jazz, or rock oriented theory and
       notation since these don't always agree with classical forms and you 
       go around saying, "Why doesn't this match my understanding of
       <whatever>?"  Suspensions are a good example of this.

       Anyhow, here's my list:

       1)  Piston, Walter.  Harmony, Third Edition.  New York:  W. W.
       Norton & Company, Inc., 1941, 1948, 1962.

       Perhaps the definitive book on harmonic theory in "the period of
       common practice" (the seventeenth, eighteenth, and nineteenth
       centuries), this book covers a lot of territory in depth.  In my
       opinion this book is really meant for the serious student of harmony.
       A beginner should master a good book on the basics before tackling 
       this.

       Also, the version I use is the third edition, but there are fourth
       and fifth editions, both of which say "revised and expanded by Mark
       DeVoto."  I don't anything first hand about the later editions.  I've 
       *heard* that the changes are significant, but I've never checked these 
       editions out.

       You probably won't find this book at your typical book store, but if
       you are *sure* you want it, any decent bookstore should be able to
       order it for you.  And if not, try the Berklee book store.  That's
       where I got my copy of Counterpoint (also by Piston) and I'm pretty
       sure I saw Harmony on the shelf there as well.  Of course it will be
       the fifth edition (or maybe a later edition if there is one) and I 
       don't really know what that's like.

       2)  Piston, Walter.  Counterpoint.  New York:  W. W. Norton &
       Company, Inc., 1947.

       If you want to understand counterpoint and are willing to *really*
       work at it, this may be the book for you.  Like Harmony, not for the
       faint of heart.

       As mentioned above, I got my copy at the Berklee book store.

       3)  Jones, George Thaddeus.  Music Theory, Barnes and Noble Outline
       Series.  New York:  Harper and Row, 1974.

       I think this is the "Jones" book refered to in note 122.17.  It is
       part of the Barnes & Noble Outline Series.

       This paperback covers the basics (elementary acoustics, rhythm,
       pitch, intervals, scales, chords, and symbolization) as well as such
       advanced topics as figured bass, harmony, chord selection, and chord
       connection.  Compared to Harmony it is much easier to use without a
       teacher.  In fact, I used this book and my music dictionary to learn
       enough to then make some sense of Harmony.

       Note:  although the emphasis is on classical theory, it does have a
       small (very small) section on jazz and popular music chord notation.

       I got my copy at Booksmith in the Pheasant Lane Mall a few years
       ago. Unfortunately I haven't seen it there since.  At $4.95 back
       then it was a bargain.  I don't know what it goes for now.

       4)  Randel, Don Michael.  The Harvard Concise Dictionary Of Music.
       Massachusetts:  The Belknap Press of Harvard University Press, 1978.

       A great reference book and an excellent companion to any theory
       book, especially Harmony if you don't have a teacher.

       I don't remember where I bought my copy or what it cost.  I think it
       should be readily available.

       5)  Denyer, Ralph.  The Guitar Handbook.  New York:  Alfred A.
       Knopf, 1982.

       An excellent, general purpose guitar manual.  It's very good for the
       beginner but I suspect that even people who have been playing the
       guitar for a while might find it useful.  It has a bit of almost
       everything:

       o  one or two page profiles of such famous guitarists as Clapton,
          Hendrix, and Reinhardt

       o  descriptions of various guitar types and the manufacturers

       o  some theory:  scales, modes, chords, rhythm, modulation

       o  descriptions of such music styles as blues, jazz, and rock

       o  information on guitar electronics

       o  a chord dictionary (small but useful)

       It was a bargain at $14.95 when I bought my copy a few  years ago,
       and I think it's still reasonable at around $23 last time  I looked.

       I've seen this for sale in many places so it should be easy to
       locate a copy.  Lauriat's in the Pheasant Lane Mall has had it in
       the past but I don't know if they keep it in stock.

       6)  Clough, John.  Scales, Intervals, Keys, and Triads.  New York:
       W. W. Norton & Company, Inc., 1962, 1964.

       This is one of those programmed study books.  As such things go,
       it's pretty good.  I did pick up some useful tricks with respect to
       reading and writing key signatures, things I've never seen in any of
       the other music theory books and articles I've read over the years,
       so it was worthwhile to me.

       The latest version of this that I'm aware of is "Scales, Intervals,
       Keys, Triads, Rhythm, and Meter" by John Clough and Joyce Conley.

       I haven't seen this around here anywhere.  I bought my copy many
       years ago in Puerto Rico, but it's obviously still in print since
       it's listed on the dust jacket of my recently purchased copy of
       Counterpoint.

       7)  Other books.  The following are some of the titles listed on the
       dust jacket of my copy of Counterpoint (Piston).  I have no idea if
       they are any good.  The titles just look interesting to me.  These
       are all W. W. Norton & Company books.

       The Norton Manual Of Music Notation
       by George Heussenstamm

       The Music Kit
       by Tom Manoff

       The Rudiments Of Music
       by John Castellini

       Basic Harmonic Progressions
       by John Clough and Joyce Conley

       Workbook For Harmony
       Fifth Edition
       by Arthur Jannery

       An Introduction To Tonal Theory
       by Peter Westergaard

       Introduction To The Theory Of Music
       by Howard Boatwright

       Structural Functions of Harmony
       Revised
       by Arnold Schoenberg

       Music Notation In The Twentieth Century
       by Kurt Stone

       The Acoustical Foundations Of Music
       Revised
       by John Backus

       Almost forty different titles are listed, so this is just a sample.
       The others cover all sorts of topics such as ear training, sight
       singing, orchestration, and conducting.


								John

    
    Re: .19
    
    The "Workbook for Harmony" is a companion to the Piston "Harmony".  The
    Piston book is often used as a college-level text, and this is a book
    of exercises that goes with it.
    
    I recently ordered Piston, BTW.  Still waiting for delivery after a
    month (sigh).
    
    						Brian

	I guess I'd have to move up to the fifth edition of Harmony to 
	use the workbook.  I wonder if it's worth it.  

	Did you order the workbook as well?

	Once you get it and have some time to work with it, I'd love to
	see a review.


								John

Thanks for the comprehensive list, John.  I'm going to look for some of these
soon.

Your guess was correct that the book I referred to was the paperback by 
George Thaddeus Jones.

Greg