Conference hydra::amiga_v1

Sounds like you've set the MORE ROWS size too large. Are you using an
overscanned workbench? If the total memory requirement of your screen size
is too much for the memory on the FF, it will loose the bottom of the screen...

john

    Hi,
    
    re -.1
    
    Yes, it is an interlaced workbench. Silly question, but how do I tell
    if it's overscanned? I'm not using MOREROWS.
    
    Dave
    

If it's bigger than (NTSC) 640x400, it's overscan. 

I believe there is a specific FF for PAL and for NTSC. Maybe you have the 
NTSC version on a PAL system?

john

    HI,
    
    I believe that I have the PAL version; I bought it here in the UK and
    the manual has PAL version plastered upon it. Is there an easy way to
    check?  The screen size is 640*510 without using PALreset. With
    PALreset, it is approx 700*570. When using the fixer in non PALreset
    mode the bottom line visible is 491. If this is Interlaced AND
    overscanned, how can I remove overscan? Do I want to? Should I think
    about phoning Microway again (the last time they suggested using
    MoreRows to no avail?)
    
    Dave.
    

Well, Maybe your best bet is to call MicroWay.

I use an NTSC FF at 704x470. Anything larger than this and I get the results 
you mention (lost lines at bottom of screen.)

john

    Hi,
    
    Silly question, but how does MoreRows work????? I didn't get any
    documentation on the Flicker Fixer disk.
    
    Dave
    

    
    Dave, 
    
    I can't give a perfect explanation, I have no documentation either,
    but I'll give it a shot.
    
    When you run MoreRows you tell it to increase/decrease the dimensions
    of the workbench screen by some number of pixels. At that point, the
    screen size is not yet altered. MoreRows must change parameters in some
    system structure which is read in at boot time because, after you've run
    morerows, you adjust your screen centering with preferences and save
    the system-configuration with preferences.  The next time you boot, the
    new screen information comes out of the system-configuration file.
    
    The things I don't like about it:
     - When you run morerows there's know way (I know of) to determine the
       current size of the screen.  This is lousy because morerows doesn't
       allow inputting of absolute sizes.  It wants delta-x & delta-y.
       If I recall correctly, you can even give illegal screen sizes
       (to larg) and not be able to reboot.
     - after you've increased the screen size you have to change the
       centering.  If you don't move far enough to the left (and there's
       no way to tell how far is enough) you'll just crash during the
       reboot.  So it seems the best way to do centering is in 2 steps:
        1. first move the screen as far to the top and left as possible.
           You may not be centered but you'll be able to reboot.
        2. after you reboot, you get the overscanned screeen and you to
           use prefs to do the proper centering and then save again.
    
    Frank
    
    
    

    The MoreRows that came with my FF will tell you what the current
    settings are (I think you just type "morerows" and it give the
    current settings).
    
    Also, the delta-x and delta-y are from the standard values, not from
    the current values (in other words, it is how much beyond the standard
    to add).
    
    I used to have a nice big screen but too many things did not work
    properly so I have cut back to a screen that is only a little bigger 
    than the standard size.  
    
    The most irritating for me was that DeluxePaint III crashes from time 
    to time if you have a very large workbench - the larger the 'bench, 
    the more frequent the crashes.  EA's hotline explained that one to
    me.
    
    Also a nuisance is the loss of sprites as the workbench moves to the
    left (so if you want to play Megaball and be able to see the ball
    you have to shove the workbench way to the right, losing some of it
    off the edge (I used to put the disk icons on the right edge, but not
    any more...)).
    
    Yrs
    Erg

    Hi.
    
    Frank, It may or may not be a perfect explanation, but it certainly
    gave me the info I needed to attempt fixing it again. Many thanks!
    
    I spent six solid hours trying to get the thing sorted out. As you said
    the main help was setting preferences to the top left and saving. This
    allowed most lines to be displayed - all bar two. (The PAL Flicker
    Fixer specs state that it will display upto 510 vertical lines whereas
    PAL interlaced workbench is 512 lines vertical). All this only took
    30 minutes or so. BUT on rebooting the machine things started going
    wrong; the screen increased to 514 lines vertical; then 516 - I wasn't
    changing anything! 
    
    In the end I not only fixed the problem, but learnt a little about the
    Amiga as well. As I understand it, everytime MoreRows is run in the
    startup-sequence, it modifies (either positively or negatively) the
    workbench size. This change is for the duration for the time the Amiga
    is booted. BUT, if preferences are saved, this change is then
    permanent. Next time the system boots, the screen parameters are read
    in from the DEVS:system-configuration file and then MoreRows makes its
    changes. 
    
    All I did was put MoreRows in the startup-sequence, reboot and alter
    the screen position in preferences, save prefs, remove MoreRows from
    the startup-sequence and reboot. Perfect!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Isn't life grand!!!!
    
    Many thanks to all.
    
    Dave
      

    Re:morerows....
    
    There is an alternative in a program called PPREFS. this is a PREFS
    replacement which allows you to set the screen size via sliders. 
    
    Again, the need to reboot to invoke but you always know the size in
    pixels. This is clever enough tho know the MINIMUM size that your
    system will currently operate in. e.g. the minuimum for a PAL
    interlaced Workbench will be 640 x 512. the sliders go up from there.
    
    Using the above as an example I recollect setting a 768 x 570'ish
    workbench.
    
    Hope that this helps.
    GLenn

    If you want to, I can upload it to you (or somewhere else)
    It can take a day or two 'cause I have no immediate access to a 
    kompjoeter with an Ethernet-Card installed.
    
    So just Let me know.
    
    Ave, Frank Ederveen

    Hi,
    
    Frank, yes please do... Is it possible that you can do it by next
    Friday as that is my last day.... :-(
    
    Many thanks, dave
    

    You meen THIS friday (20-Sept-1991) ??
    And most of all: Where to?
    I could send you a disk to your/a adress (Send a E-Mail to me with
    adress).
    I live in The Netherlands, so if you live nearby (europe?), That's no
    Problem.
    
    P.S. Have you tried WB2.0 ?? It has All you need build in.
    
    Ave, Frank

    Hi,
    
    No Friday 27-sep-1991......
    
    Have I tried WB2.0? Hahahahaha...... Good joke! :-) WB2.0 in true CBM UK
    style is not available to UK owners yet.... Maybe one day we will be
    allowed such things over here.
    
    Dave

PPrefs is also on FISH disk 242 

CONTENTS OF DISK 242
--------------------

PPrefs          Preferable Preferences is a program designed to replace
                the standard preferences, that is shorter, more efficient,
                and easier to use.  Binary only.
                Author:  Jonathan Potter

    
    I just put PPREFS.LZH over on the upload area.
    
    EOT::AMIGA:[UPLOAD]PPREFS.LZH
    
    Frank
    

    Re -.1 and -.2
    
    Many thanks again....
    
    dave